Hoser360

Wow, you are a lot of work! ( I''m starting to wonder if you are a genetic hybrid clone of Bush and Cheney with a dash of Rumsfeld sauteed in Powell cooked in Rice; and I mean that in the nicest Canadian way... sorry... ;-) ) There is no acceptable level of killing of anyone. The fact that you can not get away from pointing to other countries to justify the action of Israel further illustrates my point. The invasion and bombing of Afghanistan was a total waste of human life, (not to mention it lead to the end of good quality of hashish in this country; now they seem bent on making opium only). Occupy Afghanistan? Well we did not set up a colony there and claim it as our own and start build security fences (sorry 25 foot concrete walls), and we did leave. So, just to be clear, you are OK killing anyone who might be a threat to Israel, either now or in the future regardless of their actual participation as a threat?

Thanks for bring me up to date on the back ground. I actually listen to CBC radio in the car more than anything (well at least since my subscription to Xm radio expired). I actually trust the CBC to give me a reasonably balanced take on the news more than any other news broadcaster here in Canada, be it domestic or other wise. My concern and the reason for my original post has to do with privately funded 'media'. When my mother started posting me articles from the rebel (which I had never heard of at the time) I researched them and discovered that hey had only started their web site in 2014 and were bent on PC agenda and it had nothing to do journalism. Just to be clear I am not happy with any of our political parties and I would agree with "Mohamed Al-Fayed" when he stated to George Stroumboulopoulos, that hey were "all donkeys". (see link below). American media is the best example of what I don't want our media to become and slowly I am loosing faith in the CBC and the BBC. But, if giving a journalist from the Rebel equal access than so be it if it means free and fair journalism. The same access should then be given to RT, PressTV and alturnative media such as WeAreChange or Press for Truth etc... www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDqzseecgkI

Since I have not figured out to split your responses into individual boxes as quotes, I'll simply divided my responses accordingly. 1) well we still have not occupied another counter and killed almost two thousand people in a single conflict (most of which were civilians). 2) unfortunately Canada has been involved in booming targets in in Syria. It can also be argued that even some of the weapon systems used by the US are made here in Canada, but, this does not justify the IDF's booming of Gaza in 2014, again you are pointing fingers. 3) you understand the issue just fine? so how do you justify killing over a thousand innocent people, many of which were children? Was this just a lie and nothing more than anti Israeli propaganda, or, are all the children of Palestine "little snakes" (Ayelet Shaked, justice minister)?And what exactly did Gazians do to justify the action of the IDF in Gaza of the summer of 2014?

Because this forum is about the issue Israel and Gaza/ Take note that I try to not even talk about the West Bank but you seem bent on taking the subject off course and point fingers at everything and anything that can distract from that issue. The beauty is that the more you do this the more it will become clear to those learning about this subject for the first time, that the action of the IDF in Gaza is creating it's own enemies and becoming a self fulfilling prophecy.

Without getting into the Canadian contribution to any of the above listed conflict (cause I do not remember that Canadian contribution to Iraq for an easy example), again your argument reminds me of the school yard bully who points his finger and said he did it why cant I? If you keep telling someone that bull s. smells good long enough they just might believe you. But, most importantly getting back to your argument, to my knowledge Canada is not occupying any of the countries you use an an example to justify the actions of Israel. I doubt you will ever take the time to try and understand this issue from the other side, however, for those who are trying to understand it please watch this video and decide for your self. I post these links to help create a balance from the one side journalism we get here in North America. www.youtube.com/watch?v=0r_DfwyWfsA

Well given the land slide reprisals from the US and Israel it is like swimming up stream. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-30744701

Hope, believe and not give up, that is what those who want peace in the world have to do. Maybe one day all the warmongers will eventually kill themselves out of the gene poo, however, naive that idea maybe. What is good about this conversation is that you are demonstrating for those who don't understand, that people like you and many other people who defend Israel's war crimes are in fact people who really don't care about human rights if it doesn't serve your interest. And where did Canada commit war crimes after Dresden, after WW II?

Since WW II, who has Canada attacked and killed 2000 people?

You know what is particularly disturbing about this subject, about discussing this subject as a person who questions the moral and ethical actions of today's Israel? Is that I do not feel I can do so in an open forum meaning using my personal information. My mother has even warned me to be very careful about this subject in public since there could be repercussions and it is better to just not talk about it. My mother is not the only person to suggest this to me, least I be accused of being an 'anti-Semite' (which I am most definitely not). Criticizing Israel is almost a crime and almost certainly taboo. This fact alone is a warning that something is wrong, very wrong.

It is estimated that almost 2000 people were killed by the IDF in Gaza in 2014. I'd bet that created many, many more people who would be willing to die to kill Israeli's. The policies of the current Zionist government are little more than self fulfilling prophecy. If my entire family was killed by the IDF what do you think I would be doing with the rest of mine? You help ensure you have an enemy in order to justify killing more of them. I'd like to see how Israel would behave if there was no foreign aid.

So it's not a crime until someone is convicted. Well like some of us will say in North America, it's a great legal system (if you can afford it). Anyone with an open mind can find for themselves an avalanche of evidence of Israeli war crimes and the more you try to distract from that the more it will come out and the more people will begin to understand how bad it really is. You like to point out to me Canadian war crimes, well Canada has not commited a war crime that can even hold a candle to what happened in Gaza in 2014, except our participation in the Allied bombing of Dresden It is easy to find people of Israel and IDF soldiers who speak out against what has been happening their? And the video links are not for you there for you, but, for the people who have an open mind and are interested in getting to know what is really going on instead what is being spoon fed to them through the cooperate media of North America. www.youtube.com/watch?v=yL4D7NSFN5M BBC report www.youtube.com/watch?v=u59ii5znkLI Eran Efrati www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvtC_qzHVM4 Jimmy Carter

Thank you BC, you have just made my point, you point at crimes by others to justify those committed by Israel, so I infer that you realize Israel has committed crimes. The point of this forum is not what Canada, France, England or the US or anyone else has done or are doing (interestingly enough, I believe it is some of these very countries that have actually made Zionism possible), but, of the actions of the IDF in the summer of 2014 in Gaza.

One of the themes I keep hearing to justify the authority of Israel’s actions in Palestine today, is to point at other countries and their actions, be they internal action against their own people (such as North Korea) or towards other countries (like the US in Iraq). I think this a poor excuse to justify anything that would otherwise be considered immoral, a sin or otherwise illegal. If we try to keep to a civilized discussion regarding the topic of this thread and what I hope is the purpose, it is to help educate people on the hypocrisy of the Israeli authority when it comes to the actions of the IDF, as witnessed during the bombing and invasion of Gaza in the summer of 2014 and the continued siege of Gaza. From my perspective, this should not be a discussion of theology or what other governments have done or due in other countries. ‘Finger pointing’ at others to justify ones action is like saying my father beat up my mother so why can’t I beat up my wife? Or, put a different way, my husband raped me so I caught off his penis; neither one of these ‘excuses’ are justification for the action in a modern civilized world if you accept the rule of law. Getting back to the point of this forum (as I understand it) there are up to seven thousand reviews of this forum and some seven hundred posts, so, it is just possible that some people who have never made a comment, have in fact learned something they didn’t know, and the message, the purpose of this forum, is actually being realized.

The damage from the debris and the resulting fires can not account for the building suffering a 100% failure. Even with the trusses over the substation failing completely, the four corners came down virtually at the same time. The building essentially fell in its own foot print, sure there was damage to some of the adjacent buildings. The building did not rotate. In review of the collapse I'll adjust the timing to about 15 seconds, maybe a few more, however, after the core went down the bulk of the building came down in 7 seconds. Unfortunately the bulk of the wreckage was never analysed. I have found a copy of the structural drawings but not the architectural as of yet. In Canada we build mostly out of cast in place concrete so this kind of failure would be virtually impossible. In the case of steel buildings usually the elevator cores are walled in with reinforced concrete block, which have helped prevent this kind failure. The long an short of it is, this building collapsed in away that cannot be adequately explained by the official reports.

It's late here, but I'm happy to hear that you do not support the settlements. As for the best way to deal with the rocket attacks (since those rockets could do little more than minimal damage and so served no military purpose...) (kind of like pissing into the wind), I think a more measured response would have been more productive. The obvious dominance of the IDF over the situation did not need to result in the 1800+ killed and a hole neighborhood blasted back into the stone age. Even two eyes for an eye, would have been better. But now a a new generation of children have it in their heads that Israel is the ultimate evil and in the not to distant future this could lead to more innocent lives destroyed, Israeli and Palestinians alike. The actions of the IDF is like a self full filling prophecy, aimed at guaranteeing future wars. If I was a resident of Gaza today, I would be thinking of everything I could do to stop Israeli expansion. If I had lost my family do to the bombing, well I guess I would not care much for my own life if it meant an eye for an eye. Please, for Israel to prosper no one else has to die, but, if there is continual expansion of the settlers and the OTT bombing of Gaza than millions of Palestinians are going to die with a marginal few Israeli's along the way. The long and short of it is, that many innocent people are dying and or are being taken from their land. This has to stop. If it doesn't millions of people are going to die in that region over the next few decades and the vast majority of them will be Palestinians. Israel has done some great things as nation but sadly it is over shadowed by the extremist who by no accounts are any better than than those they oppose.

Oh, you mean those pre ww II technology rockets, that I could make here in my little apartment in Canada? Please, you are a senior member, try to at least come up an argument a little more substantial than that to try to justify the killing of 18 hundred human beings and the constant expansion of settlers (colonizers) into the West Bank. I have a lot more respect for the arguments put forth by Rue, Argus and even BC than this kind of BS. Your logic is like, if you take my home and kill my family and I throw a stone at you, you then have the right to be the victim and so are justified in killing everyone in my neighborhood, women and children included.? Those so called rockets are nothing compared to what Israel unleashed on Gaza, to say other wise is bent delusion of your own mind. So many of the current Israeli government think o f the Palestinians a vermin it is scary yet historically given other fascist states of the 20th century, not without precedent. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/05/07/israels-new-justice-minister-considers-all-palestinians-to-be-the-enemy/ And, three teens killed hiking in the occupied West Bank, still doe not justify the slaughter of over 18 hundred humans in Gaza. Gaza today is a complete prison. Recently I've heard that they can not even import Portland cement, because it could be used to make tunnels..? http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stat/deaths.html

Since this was my first posted topic I'd like to say the following. Well, wow, I've found a topic of some worthy debate it seems. I have just gone through all of the posts and would like to add the following. Please feel free to correct me if I've got'tin something wrong. Fact..? The person from 'The Rebel' who was denied to access, was a person by the name Sheila Gunn Reid, and, from what I can gather she is a journalist..? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I do not think we need more regulators, councils or what ever you have, to determine who is, or, is not a journalist. But what of the alternative press and citizen journalists, were does it end and how do we sort it? Do you think Harper would take a grilling from Matt Lee (AP), Gayane Chichakyan (RT) or, and lets go out on a real limb, and suggest WeAreChange Luke Rudkowski or Press for Truth's Dan Dicks. The only measuring stick I think of should be used here is money and how much money. What ever way we sort out who and who is not elligable to press event can not be based on financial backing (so should our elections for that matter). In closing: I am enjoying reading all off the contribution to this subject, thank you.

Sad actually, since we could have been making our own and selling them to the US... At least if the Avro Arrow program was what so many have made it out be.

Ok, to start, I will apologize for not choosing my words more carefully because in all honesty I am sorry if I have offended you (our others) that was not my intent. I concede that the initial formation of Zionism by its founder Theodor Herzil was not a bad idea, evil or otherwise. So I retract my statement "reared its ugly head", that was wrong of me to say and I am sorry. Let me go on to say, that I have no issue with Israel in and of itself and absolutely no issue with Judaism (Jewish people) what so ever; that I assure you (for what it is worth, if I had to choose between the 3 religions of the middle east, I would choose to be Jewish - Jews have never knocked on my door and tried to convince me to join their faith and I respect that immensely). Let me shed some light on my perspective Since I was born in 1970, lets say that I recognize the boarders as set in 1967, as that seems reasonable to me. From that point I have built my perception, understanding, of how things are today. I do not subscribe to any particular religion. To call ones self a Zionist, does not describe ones religious beliefs or ethnic heritage. I do not believe that church and state should ever be as one. I have absolutely no respect for what the US, its allies and/or NATO has done to Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and by proxy to Syria. I am Canadian. What I am strongly against is the continued Israeli expansion into the occupied West Bank and most definitely the bombing of Gaza in 2014. The result of the bombing in Gaza most likely created a hole new generation of Palestinians who hate Israel even more than they already did and served more to bread the very extremism the Israeli's hoped to stamp out. I do not believe that someones holy scripture should be the basis for occupying land that they have no immediate family ownership of. Military or foreign aid? I did not make that distinction, in fact the former is much worse than the latter. Just because Israel turns the money around to buy weapons and invest in weapon technology actually only serves my point, regardless of how many Americans benefit from this. Perhaps if the US stopped its endless wars, they could have invested in their own education system and produced the same level of expertise you describe Israel as having, for themselves.

No air planes hit building 7. If that building fell today (completely, in its own footprint, in 6 seconds) do to a fire, there would be a MAJOR investigation into the construction of the that building. The materials would have been examined as well.

Unfortunately the worlds ignorance is even greater. Jewish people lived in Palestine before Zionism reared it's ugly head. And why is it that so many people bring up history and even ancient history to justify the actions of people today. By your logic ISIL has every right to take over Syria or any other country if it pleases them. What Zionism is doing today is what is in question. Inch by inch they are taking over the West Bank and making life miserable for the Palestinians. The bombing and invasion of Gaza in 2014 was a horrible war crime and a true act of terrorism. If the American people actual knew how their tax dollars were being spent they might not be so willing to fork over the billions of dollars to Israel that they do.

The makers of bombs are not terrorist but those who use them might be. Please define what is a terrorist/terrorism?

This is getting off topic of the crimes committed in Gaza by Israel. So why don't the Zionist's just exterminate all non Jews from the land of Palestine today and stop screwing around. If your bent on doing it, just do it and get it over with, why nibble here and there and take bites occasionally, just raise Gaza to the ground and drive all none Jews out of the west bank and claim Jerusalem 100%. The reason ISIS has not messed with Israel has nothing to do with is topic, although the enemy of my enemy is my friend. (as for the first nations of what we call Canada; they are a concurred people grasping at straws to stay a float as a culture and are a perfect example of how misguided the colonial powers were, and how they used religion to justify their inhumanity)

Oh you mean in one of the many occupied territories. Sorry, so sad, but I feel more sad for the woman. If the Israeli's were not there in the first place it likely would never have happened. With such a tragedy, one has to ask, what drive someone to kill them selves?

Perhaps you should read more news from Israel. Besides rocket attacks from Palestine are a joke compared with what Israel has done to Gaza. The rockets fired from Gaza I could make here in my apartment... And there hasn't been any suicide bomber in over half a decade.