Hoser360

Dude, really!? you should do a little more investigation into air plane impacts with the ground. There would be lots of stuff left behind. Enough to make a small museum in the Smithsonian in memory of. I'd love to see the structural drawings of that recently renovated section of the pentagon, you know the apparent accounting department where they lost over 2 trillion dollars.

And that's your opinion. However, as I have said, my mind is not made up, the jury is still out if you will. I remember back in the early 80's as a pre-teen watching/reading a lot of news, editorials and documentaries about this subject. My gut instinct back then was that there was something not quite right about the hole situation in Israel/Palestine. Back then I didn't have any idea what Judaism was or Islam, for all intent and purpose. I had a hard time understanding why the Jewish people had a right to take land in Palestine away from Palestinians? The Palestinians had nothing to do with the holocaust so why should they suffer for it? Jews, Christians and Muslims already lived there. If you are one to believe that Jewish people have a right to occupy the land and deny other people who are not Jewish from it because God said it was yours; well lets hope that is not your argument. History is fiction and one chooses to believe what they want from it. The only thing we can deal with is how be act in the present and prepare for the future. Some retrospective look at past events is important for wisdom and best to stick to your own memories of events, but, history it is a fickle bitch which is subjective and the further you go back, the more unreliable it is. Seen a road map of Israeli highways and roads lately, or, perhaps the 'security fence' that keeps growing everywhere in the West Bank? If history about this area has taught me anything, I'd bet that in 20 years ALL of the West Bank and Gaza will be completely occupied and 100% controlled by Zionist colonizers. Am I wrong?

Some of us are not week minded and seek a balanced report on international news. American news is so one sided and scripted even my pre teen son could see through the BS. I like a balanced approach, check the American news, the CBC, BBC, RT, PressTV, Al Jazeer, and just for kicks watch a state department briefing and the grilling they get from guys like Matt Lee (Associated Press) and then form an opinion.

Why is it so hard for some people to consider the possibility that they have been lied too. If a plane hit the pentagon there would be parts, bits and pieces all over the place, not to mention body parts. There would be enough left of the plane to create a museum for it. Here is 2.3 trillion reasons of motivation... www.youtube.com/watch?v=aljgYENg--Y

“As for your final comment on the US engaging in Israel's terrorism, I have come to expect that kind of simplistic, partisan comment from you.” Put this in your pipe and smoke it. (see below video of Netanyahu) “ www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJFLXBqaVSc ” “In your world the US and Israel are simply painted "bad" or "terrorist". Its black and white to you. It can't possibly be that Israel and the US have done positive things for the world-not in your world, you are quick to throw them out like religions.” Doing something nice does not excuse the bad things. “Your Sir I would argue have been brought up in a culture that has conditioned you to think you dispose of things quickly when you think they have no use. Its a value system that rejects anything and everything you feel has no purpose to your needs." In actual fact, I am a big recycler and somewhat of a hoarder. I keep things around that I doubt I will ever use but in the off chance someone else will need it and am always delighted to see an object repurposed. My world is neither black nor white and the search for the truth of things is unending and in constant revision, which is one of the reasons I have contributed to this forum. I do try to be civil and not personal and am trying to learn from all sides of the discussion. “Yah I get it. You were brought up to take that kind of disposable intolerance as a norm, as an automatic reflex behavioural reaction. I get it.” Actual I was raised in white raciest environment that did not have empathy or much tolerance for none whites, homosexuals etc. Fortunately I did not grow up to embrace those ideologies and do not judge people by the colour of their skin, which god they prey too, or what sexual preference one has. Live and let live. “In my world my people were called garbage and thrown out by others and disposed. Its why I am a Zionist. Never again will I or people like me be treated as disposable garbage in the way you do when discussing Israel, the US, religions. This is exactly what Zionism is-a movement that said no you don't throw us out, NEVER AGAIN. I would not expect you to have empathy for what you think is garbage.” Just to be clear, I have no issue with Jewish people and in no way think they are “garbage” as you say. The Jewish faith seems to have been hijacked by the Zionist to justify taking over the land of Palestine. What I do not respect is the fact that the Israeli government condones the very same behavior that you say has been inflicted on “your people”, which “your people” now inflict on the people of Palestine.

Scott Hear is a link to a presentation made by Anna Baltzer, regarding her experiences in the west bank. It is a view into her experiences in the West Bank. The women identifies her self as an American Jewish person, so it should stand the test and hopefully take this debate back into the realms of politics, power and regional domination and not religion; religion is a tool for those who know how to wheeled it. www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_MDC2Gty4I

US Air Force Maj. Gen. James F. Martin Jr. fainted at the rostrum during a media briefing when he was talking about the F-35 plane in Pentagon on Wednesday. The high-ranking officer was delivering a report on the Air Force budget and in particular about the future of the ill-fated F-35 program when he... www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDhIJ-WFnnM

"Now in regards to your disrespect and intolerance of religions that is where we differ. Religions are not my problem-humans are who use those religions to justify hating people for having differences, are. You throw the religions, I believe they can be valuable guides to behaving civilly and peacefully just as they are used by some to be hateful and intolerant. You go burn Bibles and Korans if you want. For me that is an exercise in intolerance and ignorance." Actually, back in the summer of 1993 I found a paper book copy of the Koran on a park bench at 3 AM one night. I still have that book, sadly, I've only read a few pages of it unlike the hundreds of pages of the old testament. I believe these books have value but first you have to recognize that they were all written by men. Much wisdom can be gleaned from these writings. If you take away a persons sight or hearing they will see and hear things that are not there. (not to get off topic), but, in light of the fact that we can not explain how we exist, these religious explanations are a convenient ways to explain it and justify one people against another. My point will remain, that I do not support actions by anyone which results in the death of people. There is another way.

The false description that Zionism creates privileges for Jews is just that. No it created a place Jews could go to where the state organ would protect Jews and assure never again would that state do things harmful to Jews-it created an existential response, a refuge to prevent the extinction of Jews, a place to seek liberation from the tyrany of other states which in the case of many Christian and now today all Muslim states defines Jews as garbage. Rue “Israel was created out of an existential reaction, a necessary existential action to prevent extinction. In a tolerant world it would not have been needed and therein lies the irony. The very people who despise its existence and come on this board to piss on it exhibit the very hatred that led to the necessity of its creation.” You lost me with ‘Israel was created…’. Are you defending the extinction of a race or a religion? If you are talking about a ‘race’ of people, are you not referring to a people of a specific genetic heritage? I ask because as a descendant of Northern European heritage I doubt I have any Semitic blood in my body and yet I can become a Jewish person and be granted the ‘right of return’ to Israel. Back to my point, what kind of extinction are you referring too? Is it the extinction of a race or an idea?

Not exactly, someone else brought religion into it I perceive the matter to be political. I think people in power use religion to stir the emotional will of the people they govern to further their own ends. The Muslim world is the worst by far in this regard and I would take up arms against anyone who wanted to force Shari law on me. But as far as I am concern you can take all three middle eastern religions and throw them under the same bus. As for 'your' religion causing terrorism all of the world, Israel doesn't have to, that's what it has America for.

Tell that to the people of Ukraine. Further more, Who decides what group is deemed a terrorist? Currently the US and it's allies can't even figure that out (in Europe or the middle east)! Besides, it should be hard to call your self the victim when you are the occupier!

Ya the ones 'reportedly' hidden under hospitals, power plants and other infrastructure. No to mention all the weapons in that neighborhood that was raised to the ground through a land, sea and aerial bombardment. Oh, and said nothing of Jew's or religion, this is politics no matter what religion the sheeple pray too.

Well, I`m not sure where any person could hide in Gaza when the IDF decides to target an areas with navel and army artillery, air to ground missals fired from drones, aircraft and helicopters. In Gaza there is only civilian area`s (well until the IDF decides to call you on your cell phone or more simply give you a little roof knocking as warning they are going to destroy the building you are in). And please don`t bring up Hamas rockets, that`s a bit of a joke since the rockets fired from Gaza i could make in my garage and were as dumb as a bottle rocket. The claim to fame for the ``Iron Dome`` anti missal deffence system performance stats are based on hitting rockets of a pre-world war 2 design; I would not buy any of that stock. Try to remember, some of us are trying to understand how approximately 1500 people, non combatants, of which nearly 500 of whom where children, died as a direct result of IDF aggression. And to stress, I am talking about PEOPLE.

Getting a little off topic..? Getting a little off topic..?

Wow, I think we have agreed twice now. :-)

And, just to give my position some context for those who care. I have been responsible for structural steel and cast in place concrete structures as a construction superintendent, so I have a decent knowledge of the structural durability of these structures. In Canada almost all high rise buildings have a reinforced concrete core. If it is post and slab concrete construction, than the core is often infilled with concrete block, with a a structural steel building the core is cast in place reinforced concrete. WTC buildings had neither and thus the resistance to mass from above would be negligible once movement started.

I've never seen a steel structure building brought down by explosive demolition, they are simply too easy to take down piece by piece. Reinforced cast in place concrete buildings are the common building type displayed in demolition videos. WTC 1&2 were steel structure with concrete on metal deck (hence the concrete was not a structural element). Once this mass started moving towards gravity, the structure would cave like tooth picks and the line of least resistance would be straight down; the lower floors would account for almost no resistance to the mass above. That said, building 7 is the anomaly those who doubt the official story should concentrate on since the logic of the science in this case, is the hardest to dispute. (the lack of air plane parts from all four planes is the next most important scientific item to be investigated and debated. The the long and short of it is, only get into arguments where there is an overwhelming amount of evidence to support the overall agenda (pick your agenda and fight only the battles you can win), focusing on wtc 1&2 is a lost cause regardless of the truth. "May your God go with you" Dave Allen

Not exactly sure of what your point is here. Is it that no matter what party we are talking about the result will continue to remain dysfunctional regarding the procurement of military contracts (not to mention provincial energy contracts)? Helicopters, submarines, time and time again it seems that the end result is good money thrown after bad and it all seems to about political agendas rather than transparent realities.

How and why governments create these contracts is so complex ,and, convoluted by the each side it is beyound me. I'm just speaking from a basic philosophy I have regarding technology and the procurement there of. It seems logical to me that when up grading the tech you already own, you take the following 'rules' (as I see them) into consideration. 1) has the current tech I own served it's purpose and performed it's function as advertised? (the CF-18 has) 2) when selecting a replacement technology it seems more prudent to go with a tried/proven tech other than the most latest and greatest..? (I do not as a a matter of principle, ever buy the first generation of anything, and, if it keeps having development problems (budget creep) post first addition, the alarm bells ring and other options are more closely looked into. 3) cost, how much actual bang do I get for my buck? (what do I need this things for? well, Canada is not an offensive army. We are traditionally a support roll army and in the minds of the vast majority of Canadians, would like it to stay that way. That said, we have to patrol large areas of our own boarders and be able to contribute to assisting in our contributions to NATO [which requires that we can operate from US aircraft carriers]. Do we need a 'first strike' air craft? Or, if I could two for one for the same cost and still meet the needs as defined, then I would the money for investment into other aspects of 'tool kit', like ships, helicopters, etc. 4) have I explored all the option available? (from what I understand, there was never a transparent bidding process and thus the issue was easily politicized going into the election. Granted I believe it would not be good to by an aircraft not manufactured by the US, but, the F-35 has not been a stable performing platform and has gone off the chart financially and in its schedule for delivery and as a proven technology, which I can say confidently because that is well documented. 5) in regards to one governments contracts and 'deals', requires an open book. That means if we have subsidized, given grants or may made cross boarder trades as a back ground to the actually procurement contract of a product, most of us will never know, which means I am suspicious of any canceled contracts which are created by one government and canceled by the next (i.e. gas plants, sea kings, etc...) which is to say the hole processes of letting government contracts to privet industry is a mine field of back room deals. Unfortunately we, as the voting public, are left ignorant to the entire issues which are used to herd us to choose a side in/at the ballet box. Spend any time watching question period and if you have any brains, so can see how ridiculous the hole situation really is. It seems to me that we do not live in a democracy, that is if you you feel that a democracy is only true/valid if the electorate are comprised of people educated enough to make an informed decision. We are a people that are sheep, herded by donkeys that we elect, and, the only reason it works is because the grass is abundant (pun intended).

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/canada-to-stay-in-program-of-f-35-jet-buyers-despite-pledge-to-withdraw/article28897002/

Wow, just goes to show how messed up our Federal government is. This plane is a black hole of money and does not serve our military needs one bit. If we are going to spend this much money on an air plane maybe we should just build our own. What was wrong with just continuing with the new generation of the F-18 Super Hornet, a superb aircraft capable of preforming all the tasks our modern air force needs. We keep electing DONKEY'S, not leaders. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/canada-to-stay-in-program-of-f-35-jet-buyers-despite-pledge-to-withdraw/article28897002/

I asked you "Just to be clear, you believe Israel had every right to kill civilians, an estimated 1500 of them, your OK with that?" Well then you should change your interests because "Peace, Order, and Good Government" is not actually what you believe in. It's seems by your own statements you are more akin to George Orwell's 1984 and "double speak" than your are in peace, for you war means peace, and piece means war. For every child that is killed, for every none combatant that is killed, many more fighters will rise and the only end will be complete destruction of Gaza and all of its people ,and as long as the rest of the world keeps a blind eye to it, and, American keeps funding it. Israel, forever the poor victim! They create their own enemy just to justifying destroying them and everyday, inch by inch they take over greater Israel. I shudder to think of where this kind of philosophy ends? Will it stop once they have annihilated all of the Palestinians, or, simply keep expanding outwards. What we are seeing is Fascism implemented to perfection perfected. Oh, and for the record Rue, of the 1500 civilians killed an estimated 500 of them were children, your a real human being.

Your not helping the cause. In this city our airport is practically in the middle of it and planes fly over all parts of it, all the time and always have.

I never suggested that I don't give a damn for the atrocities committed in other countries and for you to even suggest that I believe is your attempt to justify the atrocities committed by the IDF in Gaza 2014 and the needless slaughter of so many civilian people and the needles destruction of hole neighborhoods and infrastructure. Just to be clear, you believe Israel had every right to kill civilians, an estimated 1500 of them, your OK with that?

Your response to my statement "Criticizing Israel is almost a crime and almost certainly taboo. This fact alone is a warning that something is wrong, very wrong." Well, for one I'm not a student with little or nothing to loose. Moreover, nor am I in a position to not be concerned about the repercussions of being an open critic of Israel. Since you obviously don't know, our government has been trying to do exactly that and even the most passive resistance to Israel is legislated antisemitism (see attached articles from legitimate news organizations). http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ottawa-cites-hate-crime-laws-when-asked-about-its-zero-tolerance-for-israel-boycotters-1.3067497 http://www.canadianprogressiveworld.com/2015/05/13/harpers-effort-to-criminalize-legitimate-canadian-criticism-of-israel-is-diabolical/ http://canadatalksisraelpalestine.ca/2015/04/19/does-harper-want-to-criminalize-criticism-of-israel-canadian-civil-society-issues-a-warning/