GWiz

Good... Lets cancel the F-35s and let the next Government decide what or what not to buy based on NEED and NOT on what Harper and/or the United States WANTS Canada to buy...

Nope, wrongo, missed the mark completely... NATO/NORAD agreements have little to no bearing on a member nations' military or military spending or procurements... Both NATO and NORAD are essentially cold war mutual defence agreements which would allow instant access by any member nation (read USA) military access to that country in times of need/war with a primary DEFENCE focus... Prior to the 9/11 attacks NORAD was even in some danger of being disbanded... Good thing it wasn't...

We are in total agreement...

That's my point, the mission today is NOT a training mission, it's a forward combat mission involving some 2200 Canadian troops... In their area of operation, South Khandahar province, Canada was alone until Obama sent the US military in in substantial numbers and has over 5000 troops in the area where Canada was operating... The move to a training mission, leaving Khandahar in the hands of the Americans, was to take over exactly that "basic training" mission leaving some 800 (originally only 200 troops were to remain) troops trained to train in place in Afghanistan based out of Kabul... That is what is being changed... Harper wants to change that mission into an "Advanced Training" mission whereby Afghan troops would be accompanied by Canadian troops on their initial "forays into hostile territory" and Kabul area security... THAT would be a significant and far more dangerous mission than what a "basic training" mission "behind the wire" would be... Yes, but without the proper equipment & numbers to do the job... You're somewhat wrong in what you say as well, in that initially Canada's role, as was Germany's and Frances, etc., was to be in Kabul doing training, but without any "wire" to be behind... US and GB were to do the forward fighting roles with support from Afghan troops trained by Canada etc.... In 2005 that changed with NATO being the leader in Afghanistan and Great Britain and Canada increasing their troop strength substantially, and Canada taking forward (Combat) control of south Khandahar province based out of Khandahar... As always, Canada's troops, while fighting waaay above their weight class, did an outstanding job but at a very heavy price in blood and treasure... All this came about because of the lies told to NATO member countries about the strength of the enemy in Afghanstan so that the US could free up it's troops to go fight in Iraq... Canadian troops have NEVER had to prove anything to anyone and have always been highly respected and valued by other nations with the exception of the United States... The US is a militaristic nation, the ONLY one in NATO, with a consistant and continuos fighting record since Viet Nam... Ergo the milirary and political leadership in the US is quite different than Canada's and of course US troops reflect that... In fact Canada's JTF-2 units went into Afghanistan with the second batch of US Rangers to hunt Bin Ladin in the first forays into Afghanistan (unbeknown to most Canadians) and were also sent to "establish" a "safe zone" for the move into Khandahar province for the following Canadian troops (better known)... I'm sorry, if Canada's troops feel that they're letting their dead buddies down in Afghanistan by taking on a different role/mission, they are completely WRONG... They in fact have done much more man for man than what could have been expected from any troops including those of the United States... Canada is NOT in a competion to be more like the US... So just bring our troops home, they've done their job and a whole lot more...

X-45 Unmanned Combat Air Vehicle (UCAV) Overview The DARPA/Air Force/Boeing X-45A technology demonstration aircraft completed its first flight on 22 May 2002. Multi-aircraft testing will begin in 2003 when a second X-45A becomes operational, leading to joint UCAV and manned exercises in FY 2006. http://www.fas.org/programs/ssp/man/uswpns/air/attack/x-45_ucav.html It's now 2011, the program went BLACK in '05-'06 so I couldn't find anything newer, but you might want to take a look anyway...

Dear Mr./Ms. dre (et al), Please be kind to Mr. bush_cheney (or BC in short form) as it's become very obvious that this person has some serious mental handicap and a strong ani-Canadian attitude... Being Canadian we must always be kind to people like Mr. BC who has none of the wonderful advantages we Canadians enjoy like FREEDOM of thought, good health care without having to go into debt and poverty, and a secure retirement... He therefore is left out on the streets on his own with no needed medical attention... After all, even in the United States, anyone calling themselves bush_cheney would ordinarily be apprehended by people in white robes... He must be hiding out in some unknown location to still be on the loose... We must do what we always do as Canadians and tolerate our mentally handicaped southern neighbours who can't help but feel envious of the wonderful life we enjoy up here in Canada... It's the Canadian thing to do... The Canadian way if you will... Thank you so much for your understanding...

I guess you failed reading comprehension... The CCF/NDP have brought NOTHING, ZERO, NADDA to Canada... They COULDN'T do anything but jabber, jabber, jabber, which is the ONLY thing they've ever "brought to Canada... Health care along with every other social program in Canada came into being by the GOVERNMENT of the day, you know the one that got the most votes and had the PRIME MINISTER at the head of it... It just so happens that Canadians, not NDPers, or Liberals, or Conservatives, WANTED and/or NEEDED these social programs and the GOVERNMENT, primarily Liberals, implemented them... The CCF's Tommy Douglas brought Heath Care to Saskatchewan... Lester Pearson, a Liberal, brought health care to Canada based somewhat on Saskatchewan's system... Incidently it wasn't very popular in the beginning and it wasn't T.C. Douglas who paid the price (losing an election) it was Lester Pearson... Here, read it and weep... Between 1958 and 1968, citizens in every Canadian province debated the pros and cons of medical services insurance. At the heart of the debate was the question of the role of government in health care. Was it to be the sole funder and chief administrator? What role was there for the medical profession? For the private insurance companies? For Trans-Canada Medical Plans? In a society that was split between those who wanted to see governments extend the benefits of the welfare state to all citizens and those who viewed government support as equivalent to communism, the debate over medicare was destined to be headline news throughout the decade. Saskatchewan led the push for publicly administered and funded medical insurance, while Alberta and Ontario restricted public funding to support for the indigent and those on low incomes. Elsewhere, Quebec was focusing on the development of its own approach to health and social services, while the Atlantic provinces were deeply concerned about their ability to afford the human and financial costs of expanded health care services. And between 1962 and 1968, the national political scene saw a series of minority Progressive Conservative and Liberal governments led by John Diefenbaker and Lester Pearson grapple with the modernization of Canadian society. The debate about medicare was a key component of that process. http://www.civilization.ca/cmc/exhibitions/hist/medicare/medic-5h01e.shtml But the WORST of Health Care was that it brought Diefenbaker to power who in turn killed Canada's future as a major player in Aviation by scrapping the Avro Arrow project... The CCF/NDP have done an awful lot to hurt Canada over the years, so if you're willing to be responsible for the bad as well as the good you can at least have some CREDIBILITY in what you post... I think you should talk to Layton about the NDP paying for the Fighter Planes Canada has to buy... After all, the CCF/NDP are responsible for Canada having to buy Fighter Planes instead of selling them and getting rich from it...

WooooOooo, Wooo, lock your doors folks the looneys have escaped the bin...

Kinda strange how the topic of this thread got switched from the Discovery channel to a SciFi channel... Many things are "possible"... So what? F/A-18E/F "Super Hornet" On September 28, 2010, Boeing Cannounced it had been awarded a new multi-year procurement contract valued at $5.297 billion from the U.S. Navy for 124 F/A-18E/F Super Hornet and EA-18G Growler aircraft. Under the terms of the agreement, Boeing is to deliver 66 Super Hornets and 58 Growlers to the Navy from 2012 through 2015. http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/f-18ef.htm That's a combined purchase of 124 NEW STATE OF THE ART fighter planes for $5.297 BILLION dollars... If anyone here thinks the US Navy is purchasing them to only use for a "couple of years" they're smoking something illegal... Is going that route better for Canada than an unproven airframe that's 3x the cost for less (1/2) planes? In my opinion yes... Purchasing a "state of the art" NEW derivative of the planes Canada now flies, vs any other aircraft, including the F-35 has many advantages for Canada... Too many to list actually... But the most important ones are COST in resessionary times, greatly reduced costs in support and infostructure facilities throughout the country which would primarily already be in place, and delivery schedules of planes that are available "right now" or as needed to replace our current fighters... And a "more for less" scenario, say 100 vs 65 new planes wouldn't be such a bad idea either... Are they as "sexy" or "stealthy" as the F-35, of course not, but you don't need a Masaratti to go to the corner store for groceries either... What does Canada NEED not WANT should be the question of the day... What I'm saying is explore ALL options THEN decide and not just tell parliament "look what we've done (AND SPENT)"... Harpers got it WRONG again, it's just not how our parliament works...

1. I told you I won't answer your posts unless you have my whole post you moron... BUT! I'll make an exception this one time because it's become obvious that you are "mentally challenged" and I feel sorry for people with mental disabilities, even Americans calling themselves "Bush-Cheney", which is an obvious sign of mental problems itself... You wrote: I answered: You answered: Full concensus from Parliament after a long debate and approval for the AFGHAN PEACEKEEPING MISSION backed by a majority of the Canadian public (because of 9/11 and the BS we were fed by Bush) ain't having "no debate" or vote last time I checked... It happens that way it is in a Democracy... But YOU wouldn't know that being that you have a Republic and NOT a Democracy... BTW, same thing happened when it was decided NOT to join the Coalition of the Willing in Iraq, that's Democracy too... If we in NATO had refused to do the mission or pulled out when we found out what would you have done? I've read the NATO charter (want the link?) and NOTHING in it forces any member nation into a war based on lies... Bottom line: NATO, in particular Great Britain and Canada, saved your sorry US BUTTS (unfortunately Bush's too) in Afghanistan... AGAIN! Just as Canada saved US BUTTS on 9/11... You wrote: I answered: Seems I hit a nerve since you failed to give a response... very ! You wrote: I answered: You replied: No U.S, media in Germany where I was when I was in diapers... What I'll be watching is is YOU, we're fine, China isn't gonna call in our debt, just yours... You're sooo wrong all the time, have your (have one?) doctor check into that... You do have HEALTH CARE, don't you? I hope it's nothing serious, I'd like you to stick around and suffer... Try to learn... Next time you'll just get the 1. ---

Oooo, a SHOT! Goody, goody... By an American and a female at that (even better)... Please take note so we can proceed in our "discussion"... "I ain't gonna spare anyone here nutin... I may be a "newbie" HERE but I ain't new to some "exchanges" with you yanks (speaking of that I LIKE yanking chains) having been "seasoned" on the Hannity Forum for some 6 years ('00 - '06, the Bush years pre and post 9/11 and two wars), that's a LIBERAL Canuck "battling" American Right Wing extremists on Hannity, and WINNING every battle... So my yank friend have at me by all means... Just never say I didn't warn you (just as a blackbelt Karate Master must warn his "foes" I must warn all here about my abilities and my one finger that conveys the message)... With all due respect my friend, please remember you've been warned, AND, that you "fired" the first shot and that I will be held blameless... I believe that answers your comment?

Ignor? Never! his kind are the best kind to have some FUN with... No holds barred and all that... He's been duely warned (have to find that post and repost it)...

Oh, oh, bad news - Canada sending planes to bring Canadians in Egypt out, US and other countries too, = Bloodshed coming...

Spent 6 years on the Hannity forums '00 - '06 as a Canadian LIBERAL - he's a pussy cat...

ABSOLUTELY! (with a FEW good ones mixed in) USA ubber alles you know...

Point of order... Not everything that US does is beneficial to Canada nor anyone else... THOSE ARE the things we point fingers at...

Wow ... You're really losing it today aren't you...

Biggest budget deficits and rampant chroniism EVER in Manitoba was by the NDP under Schreyer... Gary Doer on the other hand Governed to the middle and didn't do too bad at all... Guess that's why Harper and the Cons wanted him out and gave him the Ambassador to the US gig... It's looking good for the Cons in Manitoba this year...

Here's the thing, one of these days you'll wake up and realize that I was only trying to HELP you understand the way the Federal NDP are putting the Cons (Harper) into power... By spliting the vote between the NDP and Liberals a would be 2nd or 3rd Conservative candidate wins... But to make the concept a little simpler for you to understand why don't I just let one of your own tell you: One of the greatest organizational difficulties for the NDP has been the 2004 election finances legislation, which virtually eliminates trade union financial contributions to the party that labour co-founded. Another challenge emerged during the 2006 election when Canadian Auto Workers (CAW) president Buzz Hargrove called for union members to vote strategically. He urged unionists and others, where necessary, not to vote NDP, but instead vote Liberal, in order to stop a CONSERVATIVE PARTY victory. The debate continues over the place of Canada's labour party and the role of trade union members in political action and party politics.http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=A1ARTA0005699 Also, did you know that every "social" piece of legislation that the NDP wrongly try to take credit for was enacted by a Liberal Government? That means all your vitriol (Layton's in particular) against the Liberals means that you get a Government (Harper and the Cons) that's a whole lot less friendly to anything the NDP would like to see... Did you know that in the entire history of Federal politics in Canada not a single piece of legislation was brought to the floor of the House of Commons by the CCF/NDP? So you can rant all you want about Liberals my friend, I expect nothing less from NDPers (Canada's version of the Communist Party)... And YES, there IS a great difference between Provincial and Federal Politics as I hope you can now see... No need to thank me for the education... You're welcome...

Are you saying "it's complicated"? The most amazing thing about the protests/uprising in Egypt is not only the youth being out, but young and old, men and women (bare headed and burkaed), every political stripe in Egypt, all protesting TOGETHER... It started, perhaps with the young unemployed but it spread sooo quickly to include all facets of a nation... Something truly amazing is happening in Egypt... I only hope it doesn't turn out badly...

I saw that you were a "seasoned" member and just thought throw my 2 cents in as a way of introducing myself...

Lies, lies, lies... Under Bush that was the way it was... You can however "blame Canada" for listening to Bush... Our Government should have known better that to listen to anything the Bush administration said... God bless our Canadian Troops... "NATO infighting aided the insurgency, specifically in 2005 and 2006, as a host of member countries felt blindsided, alleging that the U.S. sold a role confined to reconstruction and peace-keeping. They did not expect to take over counter-insurgency operations of large swaths of territory. Many of these nations – chief among them the French - were also appalled when they realized the U.S. was simply using NATO troops to fill the gap left by shifting troops to Iraq – a war most of the NATO countries strongly opposed. Alliance members were especially upset upon learning the insurgency had been growing in spring 2006 after being told by U.S. officials that an intensification of such a nature was highly unlikely. American military leaders understood full well the resilient militants had been turning the tide and that the Taliban would see ISAF's expansion and U.S. contraction as an opportune moment to rekindle the war - yet, despite this knowledge, Eikenberry characterized the insurgency as “weakening” during a press conference on December 8, 2005. http://www.examiner.com/afghanistan-headlines-in-national/nato-is-a-decompsing-corpse-afghanistan#ixzz1CY8KCNdt You OWE quite a bit to Canada actually... Read it and weep... Moody’s Downgrades U.S. Debt Rating; Canada Offers Bailout Loan With the U.S. government devastated by this news, and financial collapse looming, America is now scrambling to see if it can restructure its debt. Canada, the U.S.’s neighbor to the north, has offered a bailout loan. The loan, in the amount of $500 billion, will be used to help the U.S. meet its obligations to China, since that is the approximate amount of U.S. assets that Chinese officials plan to liquidate. China has around $1 trillion in U.S. bonds, and plans to cash in about half of that in order to fund its plans for asset diversification. http://financialhighway.com/moodys-downgrades-u-s-debt-rating-canada-offers-bailout-loan/ Ain't gonna be slow, but it will be agonizing... You may want to watch some movies about the Dirty 30s in anticipation of your future "standard of living", or you could just move to India to experience it now...

You got it! When it comes to "flip flops" Layton is the Grand Master of them all... He flips and flops with the winds, the political winds... He'll be with the Cons, the Libs., even the Bloc, depending on how the winds are blowing that day... Just listen to him... On second thought, why bother, he's irrelevent anyway... Crying for a "coalition", which thankfully Ignatieff quashed, was a desperate attempt to make himself relevent... Last bi-election score Cons 2, Libs 1, NDP 0... Bye, bye Judy Wishywashylies...

Shhush!

Owch, this is gonna Hurt... To be honest here Canada getting "sucked in" to the Afghan war can't be lain at the feet of Harper alone, ALL our political parties and a majority of Canadians supported it in the beginning... Canada's JTFII went in with the second set of US Rangers to hit the ground in Afghanistan to hunt down Bin Laden, that's how long Canada has been in the fight... Then came the move to Kandahar and Canadian deaths in Afghanistan started rising way more than anyone thought.... That move Harper has to take a little more credit for... But all this is really isn't pertinent to this thread today... Bush is the main culprit, and those that supported him of course, for the US debt load and the near collapse of the US economy, pulling the rest of the world, including Canada, down with it... I predict it won't be long now before the second shoe drops on the world economies... Much worse than round one I may add... Wait for it...