JerrySeinfeld

Have you even been to Vancouver recently? I am guessing not based on that comment. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Vancouver makes toronto look like a sweatshop. It'snot even fair to mention the two cities in the same sentence; Vanouver blows away the big smoke. Vancouver is the best city in Canada by a long shot and the world will see it in 2010.

That description easily describes some Albertan's as well. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> This thread is about Toronto.

OK So the Liberals have made everyone hate Stephen Harper based upon this marginal SSM issue. Lets say Peter Mackay became the leader and they dropped this as a concern. Would you as a "blue"Liberal look at voting for them?

Then the parents shouldn't let em work. What's with the government telling everyone what to do?

Because he would have been critised for staying in power without a mandate from the voter - that is what always happens when parties change leaders in mid term. Furthermore, Martin had planned a spring election long before the sponsership stuff exploded so you cannot accuse him of suddenly deciding on a spring election - that was his plan all along. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> "Because he would've been criticzed" is hardly a reason. Politicians get criticized all the time. Why did martin promise an election 30 days after Gomery?

In it's bid to be a "big world class city", Toronto has tried to get the Olympics, tried to be a real NBA, NFL city.....gosh so embarrassing for a group of people so obsessed with NOT being american lol. But alas, the big smokers are relegated to being just an average large Canadian city. But wait! Maybe It''s the Torontonians who are the small towners... What do we usually think about small town people: 1. Close minded -- set in their ways. 2. Not much of a clue as to what's going on in the rest of the country. 3. Think that everyone else's values are bad, but those in my town are good. 4. Can't really imagine living anywhere else. 5. Brainwahed by a small group of media; thinking that's the only perspective that matters. Wait a minute! I just realized: Toronto is the biggest small town on the planet. As badly as Torontonians wish they were a world class city, they keep behaving like a bunch of small town Canadians, while the rest of the country keeps an open mind to new things. What a sad state for this poor city with an inferiority complex. Poor Toronto. Oh well; at least they have the Blue Jays. lol.

Funny: you bring up another reason PMPM is such a slimeball: Paul called a snap election last year and shut down the commission that was already in progress investigating ADSCAM. I thought he "wanted to knwo all the faact" before an election. Answer me this: if that is the case, why did he call a snap election last year?

I anticipated this sort of simplistic response. First: to say Alberta's success is due to oil is to say that Ontario's succes is due to manufacturing. It's ridiculous. Of course Ontario's success is due to manufacturing. Just like the maritimes economic succes depends upon fisheries, or Cancun's depend's upon tourism. How simplistic can you get. I mean -- NO SHIT!! All economic regions have economic drivers, but the previous poster is right; alberta eliminated it's deficit when oil was at $10/barrel. Bulletin to the rest of the country: that's what you do! Tighten your belt when times are hard, then when times turn you will be in an excellent positionheld to take advantage of it. Alberta is spending literally BILLIONS on education, health and even a publicly held endownment for times when oil prices are low. This is called smart management. The rest of Canada can snarl all it wants in an effort to poo-poo good government, but we are laughing all the way to the bank in Alberta because we are smart. Keep doing your own little money-shuffle, money-stealing games all you want out east you retards -- we are living GOOD and pretty out here. Take a lesson.

Well here we sit in Alberta, the only province in Canada with a conservative government consistently for decades. Gosh it sure is tough out here. We are now a debt free provice and just annouced another $5 Billion surplus. With all this excess cash there are a number of proposals on the table: Establish a mutli-billion dollar education endowment fund to provide an infinite supply of education dollars into the future. Sure beats taxes! Establish a multi-billion dollar Health Care fund for the same purpose. Create "destination" health centres with the most cutting edge facilities anywhere in the world which will attract the very best professionals world wide. The University of Alberta hospital already has a new cardiac centre and centre for health research under construction to this end. Maintain our 11% flat tax and possibly eliminate income tax altogether. Meanwhile the federal Libs tole our money, gave it to their friends, smokescreened real issues by focussing on marginal SSM, bribing MPs, gutting our health care system, and breaking their elction promise (such as eliminating the GST). I guess Ontario voters get what they deserve. I suspect they've never really experianced good government like we have in Alberta. Just thought I'd give you a taste of the good life, all.

Boy, you try and inject some humour in to the proceedings and this is what you get. Let me explain: I'll go slowly so you can keep up. 1) You praised ralph Klein for "sticking to the redneck ways." 2) Redneck is a derogatory term, usually used to describe backwoods hillbilly types. 3) Other than intolerance, other behaviours popularly associated with rednecks include inbreeding (ie. incest) and bestiality. 4) I opted to point out the irony in praising "redneck ways" which, presumably, would include such stereotypical redneck behaviours as inbreeding and sex with farm animals, in a debate over same sex marriage when both incest and bestiality are two components of the "slippery slope" argument against SSM. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Stawman

Your Liberal ad style BS about "whack religious" is a ploy to deflect attention from how disgustingly deceptive the Liberals have been. Stop making fasle accusation of the CPC to deflect the topic of this forum: Paul Martin and his disgraceful tenure as PM.

Just because the gov't does something that you disagree with does not mean it is undemocratic. I am sure that Harper and crew would do the exact same things if they were in power with a minority and you would be cheering them on. Whose fault is this? The CPC has been tying up the debate trying to make it a wedge issue. Many people do not share your opinion that the country is going to hell in a hand basket- it does not make them apathetic. In fact, a lot of people care about the country a lot which is why they are not willing to hand power over to bunch of people that frequently sound like a bunch of right wing extremists. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> This government lost the confidence of the house a month ago and said "well we're staying in power on a technicality, we want a do-over next week." That is about as weak as it gets, democratically speaking.

I would agree that I am not happy with everything that Martin has done. But what should I do? Vote for a party that promises to do things that I oppose? I am like you in the sense that there is no political party that truely represents my views. As a result, I am forced to choose the less of all evils which for me happens to be the Liberals at this time. What you can't seem to get out of your head is all of the mud you are throwing at the Liberals is not fact: it is partisan opinion. Most importantly, people who are not willing to buy into your version of the reality are not deluded or stupid: they just have different priorities. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'll say it again: it is NOT partisan. But you're right. It's how I see it. I have provided my reasons. Now instead of attacking me ad hominem why don't you try to refute?

This deserves another look: Everyone should take this test: http://www.torsun.canoe.ca/News/Columnists...105189-sun.html

It's so tiresome people reacting with complete shock that someone call -- oh my god -- PAUL MARTIN derogutory names. Think of the backhanded, deietful, flipflopping, opporttunistic way with which he has handled his affairs, himself, this government, the PMO, ADSCAM, timely electioneering, vote buying,bribery... If someone in a regular business handled themselves with such utter and blatant disregard for ethics they would never do business again in this country. The Lib supporters should stop cheerleading and see him for what he is. "oh my god how dare you say that about our fearless leader!" I will have you all know I am without political affiliation; none of this countries political parties speak for me. No where is this more clear in my "new political party" thread. I like and dislike aspects of each of the major parties. But when I see someone handle themselves with such a complete lack of regard for anything ethical and clinging to power as pathetically and dishonestly as Paul Martin has, I am truly, utterly disgusted by the state of affairs in our democracy. Shed your colours, people. Take off your blinders. Consider the possiblibility that the people that lead your favorite party may actually be capable of terrible, slimey behavior. The evidence is all around you. All you have to do is look.

Eureka, what's not enlightening about the use of "slime", "disgusting hypocrite", "morons", "simplton", "lying", "thieving", "shut your mouth"? And in only one thread. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Martin IS a disgusting hypcrite (see SSM and health care policies past and present). The Liberals DID steal federal funds (see THIEVES), and the PM's office DID dangle cabinet posts for votes (SEE SLIME). Again: I speak only the truth. It's not my fault you choose to go through the world with blinders on.

Nice try. I spent most of my college years as a socialist and most of my 20's as a Liberal supporter. The disgusting lying behavior of this government has pushed me away.

Most of this is currently in the CPC policy book. If they'd only stop dragging themselves down with this SSM bullshit they'd be a much more mainstream party.

SOunds like the Libs to me.

Health Care: I have heard nothing from the CPC (or the Liberals for that matter) that has any substance. The issue will really come down to who to trust to make the right decisions. The CPC comes across as a bunch of ideologues who really hate the public system but only say they will protect it for political reasons. This will not play well with many Canadians. National Unity: The CPC has made no serious attempt to reach out to nationalist Quebequers. Their single minded obsessions with Bush's agenda from Iraq and missle defence to SSM is so far away from the main stream in Quebec that a CPC gov't would do more to convince Quebequers that they need their own country than all of the antics of the crooks that took advantage of the Liberal party. Honest Government: The CPC seems to have the upper hand by default on this issue because they have not been in power and therefore not had the opportunity to screw up. However, many people know that gov'ts of all strips get mired in ethical scandals (Conservatives in Sask, NDP in BC, et. al.) and may assume the CPC will end up being as bad as the Liberals. The net result is this issue will not likely swing many voters. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Health Care: Many people already believe the CPC is in favor "secretly" of private health care. They should harness this as an opportunity as Canadians begin to warm up to new ideas for fixing health care other than throwing money at it -- throwing money is the only trick the Libs know and they have married themselves to public ONLY care after last year's election. This is a real opportunity for the CPC. National Unity: "SIngle minded obsessions" is a bit of a stretch just because they happen to agree that Canada should accept missle protection from the US AT NO COST TO CANADA. The CPC has some work to do in Quebec, but you are way off if you think they have alienated Quebeckers. Only the Libs have done that. Honest Government: This is a no brainer not even up for debate.

All I have done in this thread is speak the truth. All the Liberals seem able to come back with is glossing over the truth and again trying to point the finger at those nasty right wingers. Why don't thre Liberals look in the mirror and examine the disgracenthey have turned our parlaiment into, instead of trying to blame everything on the party that isn't even in power.

Both Paul Martin and George W Bush baffle the casual observer as to how they possibly could win a second term. Both were caught red handed more than once lying and cheating the electorate. Both campaigned by branding their opponent (bush v. John Kerry, Martin v Harper) as unknown and scary. Both used a campaign of fear to scare the voters into voting for them. Bush used terrorism "If you don't vote for me you won't be protected". Martin used fear in health care "if you don';t vote for me, Medicare will be ruined." Both Bush and Martin are surrounded by big business and had HUGE financial advantage over their opponent.

With a few more polls like the recent one that showed 70% support of the populace supporting the recent SC ruling, you'll quite likely find the Liberals themselves floating some ideas that sound suspiciously like more private care. But first, they'll have to figure out ways of "rebranding" the concept so that it doesn't sound like the stuff they declare war against every election. -k <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Of course! Paul Martin & the Libs kind of remind me of GW Bush down south: it seems to the objective observer absurd that GW Bush in light of his lies and corruption still won the election. Very similar circumstances with Martin and his gang up here. They have the best spin doctors by far and they know how to twist things to fool the gullible electorate: just like Georeg W Bush.

Oh please. Until someone forces you to enter into a homosexual marriage, please spare us the overblown rhetoric about being "dominated by the minority." <{POST_SNAPBACK}> We have already seen some of these things come to pass since this article was written in human rights tribunals and lower courts across the country. We have already seen a Catholic Knights of Columbus hall challenged before the B.C. Human Rights Commission for refusing to grant permission for a same sex wedding reception on church owned property. We have seen civil marriage commissioners in British Columbia, Saskatchewan and Manitoba, who have religious or philosophical objections to same sex marriage, removed or threatened to be removed from positions by their government. We have heard the federal Minister responsible for Democratic Reform saying such employees should be punished or fired. We have seen the Minister of International Trade saying that churches, including the Catholic Church in Quebec, have no right to be involved in any such debate. These may only be the beginning of a chilling effect on religious freedom for those groups and individuals who continue not to believe in same sex marriage. Indeed, given the ferocity of the Prime Minister's new position, given the refusal to compromise, given the belief that any opposition to same sex marriage is akin to racial discrimination, the attack on religious freedom will inevitably continue on any aspect of religion that interfaces in any way with public life.

Unfortunately, I agree. Paul Martin has been a disappointment as PM. The fact that he has been in crisis management mode for the entire time does explain some of it, however, there has been a disappointing lack of anything I would call leadership. That said, I have more faith in the Liberals to muddle through the mess than I have in the Conservatives to clean it up. What I would like to see is a national party like the BC Liberals: a mix of socreds and red tories which seem to manage the right combination of the right wing economic ideology and common sense. Most importantly, the BC Liberals do not touch social issues like SSM with a 10 foot pole. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> COnsdier this: perhaps your perception of the Cons has more to do with what the Liberals say about them than what they have actually done wrong as a party. Defending the traditional definition of marriage and attempting to topple a corrupt government and defeat $5 Billion in "vote buying" in the NDP add-on budget is hardly a terrbible track record.