Riverwind

Fair point, but the fact that lawyers can't even agree whether the criminal code applies suggests that this kind of issue is best solved in the political realm. Something that the RCMP will likely take into account.

And your point is? It does not make a difference what the exact wording of the criminal code is. How it is usually applied is an important factor that the RCMP use when it comes to laying charges. I heard a Professor of Law for York (I believe) on the radio say that this particular law was not intended to cover these kinds of activities. So get off your high horse, this is a political matter not a criminal one.

Like what? Gay rights? Is that really all that matters to the urban residents of Ontario? Gay rights is irrelevent. That fact that the CPC is the only party that is obessed with it raises a lot of red flags. Maybe if the CPC stopped insulting the voters that still want to stick with the Liberals and start talking about something other than Gomery and 'corruption' then maybe somebody would notice.

Left wing? Me? You must be kidding.

The conservatives just released another 14 minutes of audio that they 'lost' during media transfer. Of course it is just a co-incidence that the missing audio makes Grewal look even worse.

Gee what a co-incidence - the bits 'mistakenly lost' make Grewal look bad.

Eureka, these kinds of comments feed right into separatist propaganda. That said, I find it very frustrating that the political culture of Quebec seems to severely underestimate the complexity of negotiating a deal after a yes vote. I don't understand why separatists believe Quebequers could make a the completely irrational and emotional decision to break up the country and then turn around and be able have rational business like discussions about a union with Canada afterwards. Separatists will most likely find themselves faced with an angry and emotional Canadian electorate - not exactly an environment condusive to smooth negotiatons.

This is a law that is only intended to apply to outsiders trying to influence MPs. There are no precedents that would allow the RCMP to lay charges and good legal arguments that they should not. Whether you like it or not this is a political matter. This is complete and total male bovine discharge. Have you actually read the transcripts? If you did you would know this.

This statement is yet another example of completely unfounded accusations that are being accepted as fact. I just re-read the transcripts on Grewal's website. No where does it say Murphy would interfere with the Ethics commisioner. What Murphy said he would do is he would help Grewal make his case that he did nothing wrong and ask that the Ethics commisioner issue an interim report. On another part of the tape Dosanj says explicitly says that "What I told Gurmant is that on the Ethics issue, there is nothing we can do. The matter is before the Ethics Commissioner."

The specific 'ethical' failing shown by the Grewal tapes is in a grey area. Moreover, how far the Liberals crossed into that grey area depends on what was said on the original undoctored tapes and what was said in conversations that Grewal may not have recorded. My guess is the Grewal affair will only serve to solidify people's current position. For every voter that abandons the Liberal's for deal making we will see another leave the Conservatives for doctoring the tapes.

Calling for the Liberal PM to step aside while you are coorperating with with the Liberals to get a budget passed is the political equivalent of declaring war. There are lots of ways Layton could have kept his distance but choosing this way is a sign he is planning to pull the plug. I suspect the NDP internal polling shows a jump in NDP support so now Layton wants to take advantage of it. All that from a leader who a few weeks ago was talking about how Canadians want parliment that works together to deliver the policies that Canadians want. We will see if Layton mispoke himself and backs off on his call for the PM to step aside. If he doesn't then get ready for a summer election brought to you by Jack and his band of cynical political opportunists.

Ah yes, another polictian out manipulating things to suit their own interests. If Layton really cared about ethics he would not be grandstanding and making demands rediculous demands for resignations. He would just wait an see what the ethics commisioner has to say. Clearly Layton has decided that he wants an election now and is trying to position himself. Get ready for Layton to announce that he will no longer support the Liberal budget. Looks like we are headed for a summer election after all. It is too bad. Up until this point the Layton had been able to maintain some of the moral high ground. If Layton was PM would never 'step aside' in a similar situation and he knows this. Just other example of 'situational' ethics coming from the opposition benches.

Also a quote from today's G&M.

August, I posted this question for you could you please answer it: Please explain why it is OK for Quebequers to vote for a sovereigntist party that cannot be part of any government and then blame Ontario for not voting out the Liberals. If Quebequers want the Liberals out then they should vote for a party that can boot them out. If you answer is, Quebequers can't vote Conservative because they do not represent Quebec's interest then please explain why Ontario should vote for a party that does not represent Ontario's interest? Is it because Ontario has the duty to 'save' the country while Quebequers who claim to have affection for Canada sit back and do nothing by voting for a party that wants to destroy the system?

The CPC leadership was in exactly the same position as the Liberal leadership - one vote either way determined the result. Yet there is no evidence anywhere of Harper offering anything except what he told Cadman - a fair run at the nomination and access to central party funds. The CPC as opposition is not the same as CPC as gov't. As opposition they could afford to wait since the poll numbers showed that an election victory for them was not a sure thing. Even if they believed they would win an election they could still afford to wait so they had absolutely no need to make deals. It is easy to look pure if you have nothing to lose. If a CPC minority gov't was facing defeat the CPC would make similar deals to stay in power. This is human nature - no one who believes in what they are doing and feels they are be being unfairly attacked by critics will give up so easily. What the Liberals tried to do was in a ethical grey area so painting it as some massive case of dishonesty is unresonable.

The lynch mob mentality is alive and well in this country and its leaders are sitting on the CPC benches in parliament. I have no problem criticizing Liberals when that criticism is deserved (and in many cases it is). What drives me up the wall and around the corner are the self righteous hypocrites in the Conservatives that exaggerate and fabricate claims of corruption in order to promote their own agenda. Anyone who believes that the CPC would not have engaged in similar deal making if the situation was reversed is incredibly naive.

Tapes that have been doctored by the conservatives.

So. Just because there was grounds to believe something was unethical does not mean it actually is. Sgro was vilified by the opposition only to be cleared once an objective person looked at the evidence.

You should include the BQ - except they want to claim power but getting Quebequers to vote yes in a referendum. Different objectives - same ethics.

It was several independent media organizations that raised questions about the edits. If it was just the Liberals then everybody would ignore the compliants. I listened to one clip of the tape where the flow of a single sentence by Dosanj is disjoint and it really sounds like three seperate statements were pasted together into a single statement. This is the statement where Donsanj says 'cabinet right away is possible'. It is unfair to judge Donsanj or Murphy without the complete context for the things that they said. Especially if there is reasonable suspicion that the Conservatives directly manipulated the tape. If these two had truely done something unethical then the Conservatives would nothave needed to edit the tapes - they would have released the originals immediately.

I gave you an example of how our healthcare system is completely betraying the public good and making people suffer needlessly who cannot afford to pay for care in the US. Our society is already making arbitrary decisions about who lives comfortably and who lives in agony. I am not advocating getting rid of the single payer system - I am just saying get rid of the restristriction that prevents Canadians from buying health services from other Canadians. Note that no other industrialized country except Canada does does. There are businesses starting up that sell vacation and surgury packages at hospital/resorts in India where the staff and equipment are up to western standards but at a fraction of the cost. The 'single' tier system is a myth - the sooner we Canadians bury it the sooner we can fix the healthcare system.

Sometimes, I do to - and those people include a number of Liberals that are being unfairly tarnished with the sponsership scandal. Now those same people are running around in desperation trying to salvage something from this mess and now making mistake after mistake - an then trying to deceive people to cover up the mistakes. I did believe that Harper was honest - my trouble has always been I don't agree with his politics so I can't vote for him. But his reaction to Stronachs departure and now this doctored tapes issue have shown him to be manipulative and dishonest too. Layton tries to be honest - I will give him credit for - can't vote for him though. Decuippe has always manipulated and destorted facts in an effort to prove that Quebec is getting screwed by Canada. He has to be the most dishonest of the lot - but most Quebequers think he is honest because he tells them what they want to hear. Things are pretty bleak.

The gov't cannot fund the system to ensure that any possible surgery can be done in a reasonable period of time. Preventing people from paying for their own care sooner makes many people suffer. For example, a carpenter who hurts his knee on the job is covered by workers compensation. Workers compensation is allowed to pay for his surgury in a private clinic because it is cheaper than paying benefits for 2 years while he is on the waiting list. That same carpenter hurts his knee in his house has to wait two years and goes bankrupt in the meantime because he can't work. Or he could go to the US and pay $50K for an operation that would only cost $20K in Canada - if he was allowed. I cannot understand why anyone thinks the ban on private health care is fair.

Yes, but other countries cover a much broader range of services - like dental care. They also allow citizens to pay for services privately if they want to. Preventing people from paying for their own care is the rediculous part of the Canadian system that has to go.

August, I really, really don't understand why you come up with this stuff.If you don't understand me, then you don't understand the country that you claim to represent. August, please explain why it is OK for Quebequers to vote for a sovereigntist party that cannot be part of any government and then blame Ontario for not voting out the Liberals. If Quebequers want the Liberals out then they should vote for a party that can boot them out. If you answer is, Quebequers can't vote Conservative because they do not represent Quebec's interest then please explain why Ontario should vote for a party that does not represent Ontario's interest? Is it because Ontario has the duty to 'save' the country while Quebequers who claim to have affection for Canada sit back and do nothing? What really bothers me about Quebec politics in the last 30 years is that Quebequers seem to have forgotten that having a relationship is a two way street.