The Pulse of the Nation

[bush_cheney2004]

No, the US can't close the border. Well, they can,

Confirmation of your confusion....that's OK.

How was I wrong? The US attempted to project power and failed miserably.

Not only did it do so, it laughed in Canada's face the whole way. Then PM Martin begged Bush for sweet oil services contracts. Too funny!

Where did I say anything to contradict myself?

You were rambling on about China and India, which to date haven't projected dick.

[bush_cheney2004]

There's a difference between views and facts. Perhaps you should attempt to pick that difference up some day.

More bigotry against both, but I suspect it still comes down to your garden-variety ideology. The pulse of the American nation is fine, regardless of your peek from over the fence.

[nicky10013]

Confirmation of your confusion....that's OK.

No, not really. It's a confirmation that the US can't do anything to deal with illegal immigration other than a move that would be destructive economically. This is what the American people are pissed off. The only person confused in this is you. You've been trying to run circles around my arguments without actually addressing them to the point that you don't even know what you're argument is anymore. As if you ever had one in the first place.

Not only did it do so, it laughed in Canada's face the whole way. Then PM Martin begged Bush for sweet oil services contracts. Too funny!

Which is why the US army is slinking home reeking of defeat.

You were rambling on about China and India, which to date haven't projected dick.

They don't have to. To scare the shit out of uppity Americans fearful of the rising Chinese star, all they have to do is keeping growing at 13% a year.

[bush_cheney2004]

No, not really. It's a confirmation that the US can't do anything to deal with illegal immigration other than a move that would be destructive economically. This is what the American people are pissed off. The only person confused in this is you. You've been trying to run circles around my arguments without actually addressing them to the point that you don't even know what you're argument is anymore. As if you ever had one in the first place.

You have no depth of understanding for the present or longer term illegal (and legal) immigration policies for the United States, any more than I would know of Canada's. The "American people" don't even know you exist.

Which is why the US army is slinking home reeking of defeat.

This is just standard anti-Yankee schlock of the weakest variety. The US "army" is actually shifting to Afghanistan.

They don't have to. To scare the shit out of uppity Americans fearful of the rising Chinese star, all they have to do is keeping growing at 13% a year.

Yep....and who are they chasing? Hint: it is not Canada.

Edited September 5, 2010 by bush_cheney2004

[nicky10013]

You have no depth of understanding for the present or longer term illegal (and legal) immigration policies for the United States, any more than I would know of Canada's. The "American people" don't even know you exist.

Sure I do. Build a wall. Beef up the border guard. It hasn't worked before but it'll darn well work this time! The US has also been using electronic sensors and UAVs. Really complicated stuff. Still hasn't worked, though.

This is just standard anti-Yankee schlock of the weakest variety. The US "army" is actually shifting to Afghanistan.

No it isn't. Any person describing the war in Iraq as anything even remotely close to a success is on drugs. The US accomplished nothing and unfortunately for the army, 5000 kids died for no reason. If they did, you surely would have a hell of a better response than just Saddam Hussein and we both know it.

Yep....and who are they chasing? Hint: it is not Canada.

Why always bring up Canada? You hope that I'll suddenly, like a dog run off topic? They may be chasing the US, but they're catching up which is why the US is a declining hegemon.

Edited September 5, 2010 by nicky10013

[bush_cheney2004]

Sure I do. Build a wall. Beef up the border guard. It hasn't worked before but it'll darn well work this time! The US has also been using electronic sensors and UAVs. Really complicated stuff. Still hasn't worked, though.

Hard to keep those determined Canadian illegals out!

No it isn't. Any person describing the war in Iraq as anything even remotely close to a success is on drugs. The US accomplished nothing and unfortunately for the army, 5000 kids died for no reason. If they did, you surely would have a hell of a better response than just Saddam Hussein and we both know it.

Go back and review the history concerning stated American policy and Public Law. You are not only misinformed, but you choose to stoop low (as usual) to insult "US army" veterans. I won't do the same to Canadian forces when they return next year from Afghanistan.

Why always bring up Canada? You hope that I'll suddenly, like a dog run off topic? They may be chasing the US, but they're catching up which is why the US is a declining hegemon.

This is a Canadian forum. Do you post about China more than the USA?

[nicky10013]

Hard to keep those determined Canadian illegals out!

Yep. The cause of which is the inability of the US government to project power even on their own border which is why the tea partiers are so pissed. Hardy Har Har.

Go back and review the history concerning stated American policy and Public Law. You are not only misinformed, but you choose to stoop low (as usual) to insult "US army" veterans. I won't do the same to Canadian forces when they return next year from Afghanistan.

It isn't the Army's fault they were forced to fight an unwinnable conflict. If anything, I feel sorry for the troops coming back. They were used for nothing but political means and put in a hopeless situation. I never disparaged the troops. The fact that you've essentially stooped to the "support our troops" argument is the really disgusting part here. Tow the line or god forbid we'll shame you into doing it. You're using their successes and failures as a political shield to hide from the argument that the mission failed.

This is a Canadian forum. Do you post about China more than the USA?

This is a US board inside of a Canadian forum. Quit dodging.

[bush_cheney2004]

Yep. The cause of which is the inability of the US government to project power even on their own border which is why the tea partiers are so pissed. Hardy Har Har.

More confusion...you just parroted back what you learned about UAV's.....make up your mind...even if it certainly is not original. Tea Party types are "pissed" about a lot of things besides border security.

It isn't the Army's fault they were forced to fight an unwinnable conflict. If anything, I feel sorry for the troops coming back. They were used for nothing but political means and put in a hopeless situation. I never disparaged the troops. The fact that you've essentially stooped to the "support our troops" argument is the really disgusting part here. Tow the line or god forbid we'll shame you into doing it. You're using their successes and failures as a political shield to hide from the argument that the mission failed.

The mission obviously did not fail, yet you still chose to insult them. Methinks you have never served in the armed forces. Pretty low....

This is a US board inside of a Canadian forum. Quit dodging.

Actually, the whole damn thing resides in the USA....web hosting, servers, forum engine....the works...near Houston, Texas.

[nicky10013]

More confusion...you just parroted back what you learned about UAV's.....make up your mind...even if it certainly is not original. Tea Party types are "pissed" about a lot of things besides border security.

Yeah, most of which tie back into the "loss of American honour." Certainly sounds like the reaction against the death of American exceptionalism to me.

The mission obviously did not fail, yet you still chose to insult them. Methinks you have never served in the armed forces. Pretty low....

I never insulted them once, so how I can continue to insult them is beyond my understanding. I'm still waiting for how the US succeeded. I have a nagging suspicion that the answer will never come.

Actually, the whole damn thing resides in the USA....web hosting, servers, forum engine....the works...near Houston, Texas.

And you were trying to disparage me for "contradictions" you conjured up through semantics and out of thin air? Wow, this is getting ridiculous. Could you be reaching any further than you are right now?

[bush_cheney2004]

Yeah, most of which tie back into the "loss of American honour." Certainly sounds like the reaction against the death of American exceptionalism to me.

Could be....still waiting for Canadian Exceptionalism. Tis' better to have been the lone superpower and lost....than never at all. You already live in a "failed" empire.

I never insulted them once, so how I can continue to insult them is beyond my understanding. I'm still waiting for how the US succeeded. I have a nagging suspicion that the answer will never come.

Don't compound your ignorance....the American government clearly stated policies going back to 1998 for regime change in Iraq...in Public Law. It was a stated goal long before Bush ever took office. Hell, your own nation helped to bomb his ass in 1991. Why you chose to insult the "US army" is beyond me, but I guess you were getting desperate.

And you were trying to disparage me for "contradictions" you conjured up through semantics and out of thin air? Wow, this is getting ridiculous. Could you be reaching any further than you are right now?

If you continue to make mistakes and expose your half-baked understanding of the obvious, I will be more than happy to point that out. Remember, I don't have to pretend to know such things, or learn them through a soda straw across the border (if the CRTC will let you).

[nicky10013]

Could be....still waiting for Canadian Exceptionalism. Tis' better to have been the lone superpower and lost....than never at all. You already live in a "failed" empire.

Gee, that hurt. If only I really cared about the notion of Canadian exceptionalism. Attempt to change the channel to Canada all you want, doesn't change what's going on down by you and the reasons for it.

Don't compound your ignorance....the American government clearly stated policies going back to 1998 for regime change in Iraq...in Public Law. It was a stated goal long before Bush ever took office. Hell, your own nation helped to bomb his ass in 1991. Why you chose to insult the "US army" is beyond me, but I guess you were getting desperate.

For regime change, there should be a regime in place afterwords. Last time I checked, Iraq has been without a government for 5 months...close to 6. So, is it really me that's ignorant? Or is it the person who automatically assumes that his government was successful. Probably the latter. Oh wait, sorr, that's your argument.

As for desperate, I think people that need to hurl the "you hate our troops" argument into something clearly shows they're out of their depth. Indeed, it seems that with absolutely no argument to counter mine, you're attempting to hide behind the troops. As I said before, this is a lot more disgusting than anything I've ever said about the US Army. Keep squirming, keep trying to fight back, though. I find it entertaining.

If you continue to make mistakes and expose your half-baked understanding of the obvious, I will be more than happy to point that out. Remember, I don't have to pretend to know such things, or learn them through a soda straw across the border (if the CRTC will let you).

More insults of our institutions but no evidence of any mistakes. Telling. Seems to me you're talking for the sake of talking even though you really have nothing left to say.

[bush_cheney2004]

Gee, that hurt. If only I really cared about the notion of Canadian exceptionalism. Attempt to change the channel to Canada all you want, doesn't change what's going on down by you and the reasons for it.

But you do live in Canada...right? Whatsa matta...no likey smart-ass American so ready to rub your nose in your own sanctimonious puppy crap?

For regime change, there should be a regime in place afterwords. Last time I checked, Iraq has been without a government for 5 months...close to 6. So, is it really me that's ignorant? Or is it the person who automatically assumes that his government was successful. Probably the latter. Oh wait, sorr, that's your argument.

...and Canada was without one for several weeks (prorogued)...so what. The USA didn't form it's present form of government for many years.

As for desperate, I think people that need to hurl the "you hate our troops" argument into something clearly shows they're out of their depth. Indeed, it seems that with absolutely no argument to counter mine, you're attempting to hide behind the troops. As I said before, this is a lot more disgusting than anything I've ever said about the US Army. Keep squirming, keep trying to fight back, though. I find it entertaining.

You're the creep who inexplicably label the entire "US army" as you did, despite it being far more than an "army mission.

More insults of our institutions but no evidence of any mistakes. Telling. Seems to me you're talking for the sake of talking even though you really have nothing left to say.

Then why do you keep coming back? No hockey yet?

[nicky10013]

But you do live in Canada...right? Whatsa matta...no likey smart-ass American so ready to rub your nose in your own sanctimonious puppy crap?

Meh, I've come to expect it from people such as yourself. They can be American, Canadian etc. etc. As for sanctimonious puppy crap, I'm not towing the government line.

...and Canada was without one for several weeks (prorogued)...so what. The USA didn't form it's present form of government for many years.

The absence of parliament doesn't mean the absence of governance. I suppose you knew that but then again you've been making profoundly stupid statements all night.

You're the creep who inexplicably label the entire "US army" as you did, despite it being far more than an "army mission.

Ok, the Air Force and the Navy failed, too. Better? ALl branches were put into an unwinnable situation.

Then why do you keep coming back? No hockey yet?

Because I enjoy refuting the moronic. Tell me, why are YOU coming back?

[bush_cheney2004]

Meh, I've come to expect it from people such as yourself. They can be American, Canadian etc. etc. As for sanctimonious puppy crap, I'm not towing the government line.

Your line of puppy crap is far worse. You don't stand for anything.

The absence of parliament doesn't mean the absence of governance. I suppose you knew that but then again you've been making profoundly stupid statements all night.

One doesn't have to be particulary smart to soundly counter your positions.

Ok, the Air Force and the Navy failed, too. Better? ALl branches were put into an unwinnable situation.

But that's not what you posted before....and you are still wrong. Iraq was invaded and is still occupied. Canada (especially you)....were irrelevant....and now you want to crow about it after the fact. What a loser!

Because I enjoy refuting the moronic. Tell me, why are YOU coming back?

Because it's fun....you take this shit way too seriously.

Edited September 5, 2010 by bush_cheney2004

[Bonam]

Since when do engineers have more experience in constitutional matters and macroeconomic finance than say, economists or professors? These are the issues that tea partiers claim to be their own (cut taxes and return to the constitution!).

Experience in macroeconomic matters? How did that experience help the world renowned economists and financiers at Lehman Brothers and other financial terms recently? Education in these fields is a joke, because even the most educated people, let alone the industry rejects who end up as profs in these fields, know little of any practical use. Sorry to rain on your parade if that's what your field is, but in our society we have way too many people training to count money and too few people training in how to actually make products of value to generate that money in the first place. I always gotta laugh at how there's more business majors than engineers these days. Just how many managers and accountants do you think a real world company needs compared to the people who actually design and make the product?

Yes, because being trained to an actual profession is a terrible thing. Sorry, but limiting the people who write public policy to only science majors would be a disaster. An engineer would have no better idea about how to solve most issues than anyone else would when it comes to public policy

Limiting them to science majors? Who said anything about that. There is a place for people with a wide range of educations. But nicky's statement was that an engineer was as clueless as a high school dropout when it comes to making decisions and having opinions about our society, and that is as I said, bollocks.

[nicky10013]

Your line of puppy crap is far worse. You don't stand for anything.

Oh I stand for quite a few things. The funny thing is, I'd rather stand for nothing than stand for lies. You don't appear to make that distinction.

One doesn't have to be particulary smart to soundly counter your positions.

For the first time tonight we agree. The only problem here is you actually think your positions are sound. Then again, by the way you've been using semantics, you've just argued that you're not particularly smart so I shouldn't be all that surprised by this.

But that's not what you posted before....and you are still wrong. Iraq was invaded and is still occupied. Canada (especially you)....were irelevant....and now you want to crow about it after the fact. What a loser!

Canada is irrelevant. Both to Iraq and this argument. You keep trying to bring Canada into the equation. You might as well stop, you're not going to offend me. It keeps in perfect line with what I've been saying. Yeah you might've occupied Iraq, but every goal of your occupation failed. Miserably. This is somehow successful? Keep spinning man, you're running out of yarn.

Because it's fun....you take this shit way too seriously.

Not surprised. These issues are a joke to you. Guess you really weren't as offended as you claimed to be. Not surprised.

[bush_cheney2004]

Oh I stand for quite a few things. The funny thing is, I'd rather stand for nothing than stand for lies. You don't appear to make that distinction.

No...I think you are a wanker to be honest. You won't commit on the Saddam question...dodging any answer at all.

For the first time tonight we agree. The only problem here is you actually think your positions are sound. Then again, by the way you've been using semantics, you've just argued that you're not particularly smart so I shouldn't be all that surprised by this.

You are an esy mark, not nearly as good as some others. You actually think your sanctimonious and smug superiority is the basis for righteousness, while I am satisfied with plain old fashioned economic and military power. No wonder you always lose these arguments.

Canada is irrelevant. Both to Iraq and this argument. You keep trying to bring Canada into the equation. You might as well stop, you're not going to offend me. It keeps in perfect line with what I've been saying. Yeah you might've occupied Iraq, but every goal of your occupation failed. Miserably. This is somehow successful? Keep spinning man, you're running out of yarn.

Because like you, Canada could not commit either way...just sat on the fence.

Toppling Saddam was a stated goal...he is dead. Is this too complicated for you to understand?

[nicky10013]

Experience in macroeconomic matters? How did that experience help the world renowned economists and financiers at Lehman Brothers and other financial terms recently? Education in these fields is a joke, because even the most educated people, let alone the industry rejects who end up as profs in these fields, know little of any practical use. Sorry to rain on your parade if that's what your field is, but in our society we have way too many people training to count money and too few people training in how to actually make products of value to generate that money in the first place. I always gotta laugh at how there's more business majors than engineers these days. Just how many managers and accountants do you think a real world company needs compared to the people who actually design and make the product?

Ah, Lehman brothers. What about the folks that predicted it? What about the Liberals in the Canadian government that prevented Canadian banks from going heavily into subprime? From allowing banks to merge? Even if it was Harper, him and his gang all claim to be economists. So, there's just as much potential for good as there is for greed. Sorry, but I think this rains on your parade pretty well.

Limiting them to science majors? Who said anything about that. There is a place for people with a wide range of educations. But nicky's statement was that an engineer was as clueless as a high school dropout when it comes to making decisions and having opinions about our society, and that is as I said, bollocks.

They have every right to vote and make decisions, but when actually telling them how government works, they go glassy eyed. Just like I go glassy eyed when they describe machines they're building. They may have solution for engineering related problems, but to act as though they know as much about the constitution as a law professor is just downright stupidity.

[bush_cheney2004]

Ah, Lehman brothers. What about the folks that predicted it? What about the Liberals in the Canadian government that prevented Canadian banks from going heavily into subprime? From allowing banks to merge?

But you said this wasn't about Canada? ROTFLMAO!

[nicky10013]

No...I think you are a wanker to be honest. You won't commit on the Saddam question...dodging any answer at all.

I answered it pretty clearly, actually. As I recall, this is the third time you've ignored a post of mine tonight. Why would that be?

You are an esy mark, not nearly as good as some others. You actually think your sanctimonious and smug superiority is the basis for righteousness, while I am satisfied with plain old fashioned economic and military power. No wonder you always lose these arguments.

If you're about to call yourself a realist, I have a mental institution you can check in to.

Because like you, Canada could not commit either way...just sat on the fence.

Chretien gave a pretty definitive no as I recall.

Toppling Saddam was a stated goal...he is dead. Is this too complicated for you to understand?

The stated goal wasn't to topple saddam specifically but to rid Iraq of a dictator. When the next one comes to power, spin that positively for me.

[nicky10013]

But you said this wasn't about Canada? ROTFLMAO!

I wasn't replying to you.

[Bonam]

They have every right to vote and make decisions, but when actually telling them how government works, they go glassy eyed. Just like I go glassy eyed when they describe machines they're building. They may have solution for engineering related problems, but to act as though they know as much about the constitution as a law professor is just downright stupidity.

They may not know as many facts and tidbits of trivia and information, but what engineering and science education provides, the reason it is so valuable, is a capacity for a systematic, analytical thought process: identifying problems, rationally breaking them down into smaller components, and using what you know to find answers and develop solutions. This is of course applicable and most often applied to technical matters by engineers, but the essence of the thought process is just as powerful when applied to other problems, including ones related to law, society, and economics. To say they are as clueless as high school dropouts can perhaps best be summed up by BC's original description of your stance: bigotry.

[nicky10013]

They may not know as many facts and tidbits of trivia and information, but what engineering and science education provides, the reason it is so valuable, is a capacity for a systematic, analytical thought process: identifying problems, rationally breaking them down into smaller components, and using what you know to find answers and develop solutions. This is of course applicable and most often applied to technical matters by engineers, but the essence of the thought process is just as powerful when applied to other problems, including ones related to law, society, and economics. To say they are as clueless as high school dropouts can perhaps best be summed up by BC's original description of your stance: bigotry.

I'm sorry, but you're reaching and that just doesn't translate. Try explaining economics to an engineer. IT doesn't go over well most times. Trust me, I know.

[bush_cheney2004]

I answered it pretty clearly, actually. As I recall, this is the third time you've ignored a post of mine tonight. Why would that be?

No you didn't. Because it would force you to commit to a real position. Can't have that.

If you're about to call yourself a realist, I have a mental institution you can check in to.

I would still have more fun than you. How many puppies did you save today?

Chretien gave a pretty definitive no as I recall.

Almost..he said he was too busy killing the locals in Afghanistan. But wait....that was wrong too...right?

The stated goal wasn't to topple saddam specifically but to rid Iraq of a dictator. When the next one comes to power, spin that positively for me.

Bullpuckey....go back and read the documents. They are clear as to purpose and intention, as reinforced in 2002 for a vote to invade by the US Congress.

Edited September 5, 2010 by bush_cheney2004

[Bonam]

I'm sorry, but you're reaching and that just doesn't translate. Try explaining economics to an engineer. IT doesn't go over well most times. Trust me, I know.

You're talking to an engineer with an MBA. The whole MBA was a total joke, basically trivial common sense stuff, after learning what I did in my engineering undergrad. I couldn't believe how much of a breeze it was or that some people actually spent their whole 4 years learning such basic stuff.