HOW LONG ? BEFORE WE HAVE THE FIRST OF THE MANY INNOCENT DEATHS &#33

[jdobbin]

Why on earth do people think it's okay to use or sell drugs with no punishment or war on it - in fact, the term 'war on drugs' is more left wing spin which plays to anti -americanism.

Have you ever used marijuana and if so, what do you think the appropriate punishment should have been or should be?

[old_bold&cold]

I have used pot and it just makes me sleepy and hungry. It does not affect me like I see others who do it. I saw early in my life that it was not something I would crave or even wanted. But I did not stop others from trying it. I can still say this though, that once kids try this and see they are not raving howling at the moon types they then try LSD and MDA and Meth, and Cocaine and even Heroine. For the most part they do not become addits to any of these, but a small percentage go on to abuse these harder drugs, and that is where we are today. I do not know of any people who started out with the hard drugs as their first use, and then went on to lesser drugs.

The simple fact is it is against the law. While Harpers plan does not change that, it will change where and how the efforts at stopping this will take place. It is a good method and the plan has merit. While Canada does grow a lot of soft drugs, we also import alot of the hard drugs. The times are changing and the making of meth and ectasy, and others was just starting to be a big thing here, only because all the necessary ingredients were legally available here. With this new plan they will not be. Not that some enterprising person will then start making the precursor ingredients and keep them under ground from that time on. But it will be one more layer that will be open to the enforcement agencies. This will stop the all medications with Effedrine from being sold, as it is just an easy cooking step to make it Methadrine (speed). Anyone with a willful curiosity can find out how easy this is to do. The part of the plan to outlaw these products will crimp the style of many of the meth cooks out there, as most do not know enough chemistry to get around this kind of attack.

For me the Harper plan is workable and well targetted. The opposition is only trying to poopoo the idea as it something they can try to make political hay with. I think the voters will see that and call them out on it. Scary scary liberals

Edited October 5, 2007 by old_bold&cold

[Rue]

Boy, on this topic one could go round in circles! I'm for getting drugs off the street to help young people avoid them and getting hooked on them. Harper wants to put these guys in jail. ok, so now they go to jail, which WE pay for and they will DO drugs in jail! This doesn't stop the drugs from coming into the country. Its the BIG guys will lots of money amd means that do that. In the US, I've read that the CIA had their own drug trade going. There 's lots of money to be made in this trade and ANYONE can be into.

I agree with you. What we do know from the statistics kept on criminals in both the US and Canada is the vast vast majority of people placed in jails have sentences for 30 days or less and of thsoe being placed in jail the most common reasons are alcohol and drugs.

Then when these actual crimes are broken down the people arrested and placed in jail have done petty crimes. Look I am not excusing it at all. Like you I want people off drugs and I am not condoning crime at all.

What I am saying though is the statistics seem to back you up and yes you state the irony of it all, when you place a druggie in jail all you do is place him in a place where its easier to get any drug he wants!

More to the point, law and order campaigns such as Harpers are popular because they make him seem tough and like he is doing something but its bull. There is no physical place to put these people! We have no more jails for them. Its easy to say you will put them in jail, but the same guy saying he will put them all in jail will not allocate any money to building more jails!

More to the point jail is not what they need- diversion programs addressing their lack of employment and mental illnesses is.

See what Mr. Harper does not want to talk about is that these same druggies are unemployed and come from cycles of poverty related behaviour and mental illness.

Poverty and mental illness are not addressed in jail. In fact jail compounds povery and mental illness related issues maing them worse not to mention focusing all the energy on the petty druggies and not the people making the money off the drug trade.

Taking some miserable junkies off the street may make a few of you feel safe but come on, it means nothing to the huge drug cartels. All it does is divert attention away from the fact Mr. Harper finds it easier to arrest a junkie then he does cracking down on organized crime.

I would take Mr. Harper more seriously if he focused in on measures to address the organized crime syndicates, i.e., money laundering, disclosure of offshore finances, etc.

Then again Mr. Harper's hands are tied on that one because that would require international cooperation. I know good people in the DEA and Bureau of Tobbacco and Firearms in the States or Justice there fighting openly with the CIA and aother agencies as foreign policy interests collide with domestic drug issues.

Come on let's get serious. The UN is full of leaders whose regimes are propped by drug cartels.

Drur cartels are big business. They fuel not just world terrorism but thousands upon thousands of legitimate cover businesses that of course make it their point to influence government.

Bottom line-these pathetic junkies they will round up will be out on the street on bail and simply stay there skipping bail. You think the police will be in a rush to arrest them? They have no where to put them not to mention, a street cop's no.1 concern is preventing violence. He may not like junkies particularly when they engage in robberies or physical fighting, but cops have better things to do then round up pathetic junkies sitting in some alley killing themselves.

This is a health issue. Its a health issue because it spreads aids and other communicable diseases. It needs to be regulated not as a crime, but as a health illness dangerous to the public. That means spending money on facilities to treat these druggies not simply hide them from public view.

That won't happen. Junkies don't vote and when they do they certainly don't vote for Mr. Harper. More to the point the average person could care less about them-out of sight out of mind, as long as they don't have to step over them on the street or get mugged by one, they don't care.

That's the reality.

[jdobbin]

I have used pot and it just makes me sleepy and hungry. It does not affect me like I see others who do it. I saw early in my life that it was not something I would crave or even wanted.

Do you think that if you had been caught that you should have been arrested, convicted and have a criminal record for what you did?

[jdobbin]

At several times in my life, I have had to deal with people who use cocaine and heroin. Harper is right. You have to be straight and hard. Anything else doesn't work.

Have you used marijuana?

[old_bold&cold]

Do you think that if you had been caught that you should have been arrested, convicted and have a criminal record for what you did?

I was lucky enough not to get caught, but everyone the risks at the time and yes a criminal record is what you get. Most companies will overlook youthful records, and you can get your record sealed and pardoned after enough time has past, but yes it will still be available to police and the courts sytems, as it rightfully should be. I have no criminal record but I do have a record being kept by CSIS that is a very large pile of suspicion of this and that type stuff, but because as I said early in this thread thatmy teenage youth I knew alot of organised crime people and we were friends, so this was to be expected. Later in life I was convicted of a summary conviction, and still do not have a criminal record.

Just because you get a criminal record, it does not mean you can not have it exponged and pardoned. So what is the big deal. You did break the law and you get that kind of thing when you do. Now would it be nice to see simple possession as a summary conviction? Well yes, but only for a first time, I would say Ok to that. But any repeat offenses should be then given the full weight of criminal behaviour. If an addict can stay clean for 10 years, he can get his record sealed and pardoned. It sounds liek a workable method and is being done now.

[shavluk]

Well that's comforting for you.

Please tell us all , what type of drug deaths you saw?

How many have died in your arms from drugs ?

Maybe booze deaths right ?

Or just in your dreams ?

Heroin overdoses yes, I could believe , but I doubt you have seen them.

And no one , that's right no one has ever died from cannabis as over dose is impossible ,,,,,,, get that!!!

I am at many , many sites and Tony Clement has made comments for months as far as this crime bill and the time for growers proposed ,14 years for example.

They both (Harper and clement ) said grow ops in their speeches yesterday and everyone knows grow ops mean about cannabis.

If we stop all the ingredients of Crystal meth for example , it will matter little as again more crime will just be created by that prohibition.

NEVER BEEN A JAIL EVER , EVER , BUILT THAT THEY DID NOT FIND DRUGS IN !!!!!!!!!

HOW THEN DO WE KEEP THEM OFF THE STREETS ? AND FOR HOW MUCH MONEY ?

I ask all of you what the treatment is for heroin or cocaine?

Tell me what you believe that process is?

You are deluding yourself if you think that there is a magic pill.

Methadone is a heroin replacement providing maintenance.

I also remind all of you (and you are right as I write at a lot of places and may not have said it here) that when we opened the first Ibogaine treatment center here in BC (african root , a plant) in the first group of 17 ,

11 of these people were in fact doctors and dentists with no other avenue for treatment.

We have doctors who practised medicine that were complete heroin addicts and as they never ran out , were never a problem and think about this one but they had been on heroin for years and years and still treating people.

We had the RCMP officer who ran the DARE program here in BC die and after 6 months of our efforts it was confirmed he was a cocaine and heroin addict. That's the truth.

In Amsterdam heroin addicts are given a 2 dollar (government cost) shot of heroin in the morning , at the end of the day they are given another.

What happened is most ,with the day long effort to steal enough just to get the same shots from dealers for 80 dollars not consuming their day ended up finally on their way to a cure as it removed the presure to find these drugs and gave them the breathing space to think of their own existence.

With this program and that process removed most started looking after them selves and as I say , some even finished high school or got a job and all that got off the drugs did so with NOTHING !!!

Get this one , with NOTHING !!

It took them just getting back some of their life , being removed from the gutter , removed from the struggle to get the drugs and no jail destroying what was left of their self esteem and what happened was and still is a miracle because as soon as they got some of this self esteem back they quit cold turkey (70%)

As I say there really is no treatment.

We have found that the best way to get Crystal meth patients stabilized is believe it or not ,yes to give them cannabis.

The doctor can tell you that the other choice is just different drugs.

Some of you don't realize that the most prescribed drug to kids these days is Ritalin and if you smoked Ritalin it would then be called Crystal meth,,,we have a doctor here he can tell you.

He can also tell you that the biggest risk to kids in the teen age years is actually death at their own hands by suicide.(doesn't happen if they are using cannabis)

Laid back never killed anyone.

Now what do you think these Ritalin kids will be like as they grow up needing instant gratification?

No ,,, Harper's philosophy will just hurt us more.

It is a step backwards for us as a country , a slap at the parents of addicted kids and most definitely medical cannabis legal users.

And a complete waste of 64 million dollars , especially the 10 million given to the friends of their choice for more stupid TV commercials telling kids to not use drugs as they watch their parents get drunk or be obese from their food addiction. A stupid waste and only a slap in the face to someone like me.

30 -40 % of the kids in my province go to school hungry the media has said and no one cares yet we will find money to jail people for a cost of 100,000 to 150,000 dollars a year to stop them from using a plant.

It would only cost 10,000 dollars per year for affordable housing and another 10,000 dollars a year for an education for these people.

Watch what they do with Insite here in Vancouver that they because of voter fear will keep running for 6 more months and yet everyone from the police to the premier to the senate of this country has asked Harper to leave it in place as they have averted 600 overdose deaths that need not be found on the streets of Vancouver. Never mind the stopping of the spreading of AIDS or hep C.

As far as the gangs and guns ,,,well just watch and see if I am an idiot.

I have spent at least 14 years studying , researching , dealing with the street people , the gangs , the police .

I met with Canada's senators in their drug hearings.

They came out for full legalization and they represented all parties in 2002.

I ran in 2 provincial elections and helped set up parties in other provinces as well as rising through the ranks of the ndp all the way to provincial council as I tried to again educate the populace as to what the real story is.

Layton asked us to help then turned into a coward.

I spend all my money and then some as I even had to challenge the presidency of the federal ndp to try to stop their fear of what I say and to keep them on their track of legalization that there constitution has been speaking about doing since 1972 ,,many ,many more things.

People really have no clue of a) how bad it is in some groups and

how profitable the drug business is as even the BC liberals (case pending) have been accused of growing pot for their parties finances.

(EDIT :i dont use smileys so i hope its gone)

No again I stand by my words and ask all of you with all my heart to please look at getting a flack jacket as the bullets are going to be flowing the likes of which people here have never seen.

Thanks for reading this and thanks for at least trying to get the facts ,,your children are what matters not conservative vote buying schemes.

Edited October 5, 2007 by shavluk

[M.Dancer]

It certainly true that no one has ever died from a marijuana overdose, it can't be said that no one has ever died as a result of marijuana.

As such it should be regulated the same way as alcohol, with limits placed on those under its imfluence. No driving, no operating heavy equipment, no shopping for groceries.....

[shavluk]

I was lucky enough not to get caught, but everyone the risks at the time and yes a criminal record is what you get. Most companies will overlook youthful records, and you can get your record sealed and pardoned after enough time has past, but yes it will still be available to police and the courts sytems, as it rightfully should be. I have no criminal record but I do have a record being kept by CSIS that is a very large pile of suspicion of this and that type stuff, but because as I said early in this thread thatmy teenage youth I knew alot of organised crime people and we were friends, so this was to be expected. Later in life I was convicted of a summary conviction, and still do not have a criminal record.

Just because you get a criminal record, it does not mean you can not have it exponged and pardoned. So what is the big deal. You did break the law and you get that kind of thing when you do. Now would it be nice to see simple possession as a summary conviction? Well yes, but only for a first time, I would say Ok to that. But any repeat offenses should be then given the full weight of criminal behaviour. If an addict can stay clean for 10 years, he can get his record sealed and pardoned. It sounds liek a workable method and is being done now.

I deal with men with pardons from 20 years ago that were just turned away from the US border with their grand children with them.

You may be turned away as other people are for admitted drug use on the Internet.

THATS RIGHT BUDDY AND THEY KNOW WHO YOU ARE !!!!!

A pardon isn't worth the lawyer you paid for it and I cant get one because I still keep saying I didn't do the crime!!!

You I hope realize how much of a hypocrite we all here think you are?

[M.Dancer]

You I hope realize how much of a hypocrite we all here think you are?

Gibberish for yourself, please

[shavluk]

It certainly true that no one has ever died from a marijuana overdose, it can't be said that no one has ever died as a result of marijuana.

As such it should be regulated the same way as alcohol, with limits placed on those under its imfluence. No driving, no operating heavy equipment, no shopping for groceries.....

That is ridiculous ,, name one

DONT TALK ABOUT THE DEATHS FROM PROHIBITION !!!!

JUST THE ONES FROM CANNABIS !!!

THERE ARE NONE !!!

MANY , MANY HEALED FROM IT THOUGH !!!

This is as stupid as the old seat belt battle as 40,000 a year used to get impaled on their steering wheels and yet it took 59 years after we invented cars to get WHAT ?????

SEAT BELTS AND PADDED DASH BOARDS !!!!

YOU ARE WRONG AGAIN !!

PLEASE TELL US ALL WHAT DEATHS FROM CANNABIS YOU ARE TRYING TO LIE ABOUT ?????????

THANK YOU FOR YOUR SANITY ABOUT REGULATION THOUGH !!!

NO ONE SHOULD DRIVE IMPAIRED

SADLY THE BIGGEST GROWING SEGMENT OF THE POPULATION THAT IS DRIVING IMPAIRED HAPPENS TO BE OLD PEOPLE ON LEGAL MEDICATIONS ,,,,, CHECK IT OUT !!!!

[Fortunata]

What happened is most ,with the day long effort to steal enough just to get the same shots from dealers for 80 dollars not consuming their day ended up finally on their way to a cure as it removed the presure to find these drugs and gave them the breathing space to think of their own existence.

Good point. If all your time and effort is going into finding a way to get the next fix there will never be enough time to stop, think and plan how to get on track again.

If an addict is dealing as a way to afford the next fix should he be put in rehab and cleaned up as an addict or jailed as a dealer?

[old_bold&cold]

I deal with men with pardons from 20 years ago that were just turned away from the US border with their grand children with them.

You may be turned away as other people are for admitted drug use on the Internet.

THATS RIGHT BUDDY AND THEY KNOW WHO YOU ARE !!!!!

A pardon isn't worth the lawyer you paid for it and I cant get one because I still keep saying I didn't do the crime!!!

You I hope realize how much of a hypocrite we all here think you are?

I really do not care who knows who I am or does not know. I, because of my summary conviction here in Canada, would not ever try to enter the USA, as they would have a romm and board waiting for me for a restful 7 years. So I just do not go there period or fly with connection to it or any of its holding like Peurto Rico, US Virgin Islands etc.. I like Europe way more for holidays and Thaiti is way more fancinating to me then Hawii ever was. I did travel the USA coast to coast before my trouble and have seen most of what interested me.

I will not go into the deaths I have seen in the under world drug trade, but let me just say there are some in this world that give animals bad names. The worst were the Tong wars in Toronto's China town during the 1960's. That was a messy time. The Dubois family grabbing power in Montreal in the late 60-early 70's was also bad, but that was then and this is now. While marijuana may have never killed you by overdose, just do not pay for what you got and see the end game. As for you or anyone thinking I am a hypocrite for my views goes, well I consider the source and then smile. Do you ever read what you post?

My father used to winter in West Palm Beach, and the only criminal record he ever had was drunk driving when he was young, and yes once he was turned back from the border. He did go and get the pardon and had it filed with the USA Embassy in Ottawa where he lived and never had a problem since. When it comes to drugs though, there is no legal use and so they will not honour the pardon now will they. I am not so sure that they want you in Canada more then I want you in the USA , but such is life. Maybe after you get to be an elcted green party member you will be allowed into the USA.

I have been on both sides of the law when it comes to drugs and personally I feel that Harpoers approach is probably too weak in some areas, but it is a start in the right direction. O yeah you were going to stop the war on drugs by making them all legal, remember that. Once the world has gotten stoned they all will want it more right?

[shavluk]

Good point. If all your time and effort is going into finding a way to get the next fix there will never be enough time to stop, think and plan how to get on track again.

If an addict is dealing as a way to afford the next fix should he be put in rehab and cleaned up as an addict or jailed as a dealer?

thank you

and actually yours is a very good point

because any user of a drug then becomes an ambassador for that drug

could be the type that shared or co-oped their own supply by using the capitalist style and buying in volume for his group of friends.

I have yet to meet anyone with a gun in his hand making me take cannabis ,, i will also try your casserole but then that's another addiction.

I am a drug dealer according to my 16 year old criminal record that I still deny.

I myself have been seen giving the biggest baddest drug we have and my personal drug of choice, to small Canadian citizens obviously all underage and probably all just children

So yes I could be considered a drug dealer,,,,,

but i love kids and Halloween

I am a dealer to some one though.

Anyone who shares a joint like a bottle of wine is then a dealer under our law and many have served time for just that !!!!

If I really told you guys some of the stories ,,they would break your heart.

When you are public and out of the closet like I am people come and see you , they phone you , they write to you.

How about the quadriplegic that needed a machine just to pump his lungs so he could actually breath yet he gets a judge that decides to make an example of him (for his poor moral scruples and bad example ) checks with the prison and hears that yes they will take him and against the wishes of all government agencies sentences him to 10 days for possession.

Johnathan magbie died on day 5 when his mom was finally allowed to bring the device to the prison.

Americans in their 50's doing 25 and 30 year sentences for first offence 5 plant grow ops.

A lot happens that everyday people don't know ,the media here in my province got 6 million dollars from the liberals for advertising then got another 3 million all for provincial adds, I know some one decides which stories are going to run because i have been screaming about my own rape for 16 years.

Maybe if offences and sentences were read out loud by that crazy dude on hockey night in Canada someone would stand up and see what i am trying to do.

Yes lets use the old lady who's boyfriend another senior is awaiting court for trafficking charges after his grandson shared and they grew their own because it worked for them better than the 300 per month government legal drugs did and get this the sad part is know she needs the 50 bucks a month extra because she again will be back in adult diapers as the legal stuff make her lose control of her bowels.

Sanity is my goal.

I as a conservative minded freedom oriented guy am actually ashamed of us as a race , society , nation even planet the more I stop thinking about me and look around.

Edited October 6, 2007 by shavluk

[Wilber]

Just at thought but we don't allow Americans who have had DUI's across the border because it is a criminal offense here, even if it is only a misdemeanor there. What makes us think that the same wouldn't hold true for Canadians going south even if we decriminalized possession of cannabis here.

[old_bold&cold]

Just at thought but we don't allow Americans who have had DUI's across the border because it is a criminal offense here, even if it is only a misdemeanor there. What makes us think that the same wouldn't hold true for Canadians going south even if we decriminalized possession of cannabis here.

That is a good question to ask the border services of each country. It is mostly in the perception of the offences that I am sure we get the most problems with. As I said with my father ( now deceased by the way) he wintered in West Palm for years with not problem then around 1999 they turned him back because of his youthful DUI. He got the pardon here and had it file with the US Embasy here in Ottawa and never agin had a problem. So yes there are pardons and I guess if you have to ask about whether that is acceptable, you should write to the embassy or to the border services of that country. I do know that the embassy had a letter put in dads file about this and it was never questioned again.

[trex]

I as a conservative minded freedom oriented guy am actually ashamed of us as a race , society , nation even planet the more I stop thinking about me and look around.

John, i agree with you 100% and this fits my description as well. please dont stop fighting the good fight! for the sake of those who truly need it, and those who are wrongly criminalized having commited no real offence, other than taking a drug that was outlawed for completely arbitrary reasons. theres no doubt that cannabis is medicine and the medical association recently wrote the harper government imploring them not to go backwards, down the completely wrong way thats already been proven to be a failure.

Edited October 5, 2007 by tbud

[old_bold&cold]

John, i agree with you 100% and this fits my description as well. please dont stop fighting the good fight! for the sake of those who truly need it, and those who are wrongly criminalized having commited no real offence, other than taking a drug that was outlawed for completely arbitrary reasons. theres no doubt that cannabis is medicine and the medical association recently wrote the harper government imploring them not to go backwards, down the completely wrong way thats already been proven to be a failure.

What medical association did such a thing, as the Medical Association here in Ottawa sure did not and I am not aware thet any of the accredited health organizations did not such thing. They may have been a rogue doctor or two that have said such garbage, but there is not properly mandated organization that would even think about doing this. The only medicinal use for Marijuana is to stop the digestive problems of some cemothearpy users, and some for relief from severe glucoma. It is not a pain medicine and it does not react well with pain medicines. This would not even be akin to saying that you do not need aspirin because you can chew yellow willow bark and get the same thing, as Marijuana is not the same as any drug thta is prescribed. The active THC is not used medicinally.

[trex]

What medical association did such a thing, as the Medical Association here in Ottawa sure did not and I am not aware thet any of the accredited health organizations did not such thing. They may have been a rogue doctor or two that have said such garbage,

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...gam_mostdiscuss

Harper government to unveil get-tough national drug strategy

THE CANADIAN PRESS

September 29, 2007 at 4:50 PM EDT

OTTAWA — Health Minister Tony Clement will announce the Conservative government's anti-drug strategy this week with a stark warning: "the party's over" for illicit drug users.

"In the next few days, we're going to be back in the business of an anti-drug strategy," Mr. Clement told The Canadian Press.

"In that sense, the party's over."

Shortly after taking office early last year, the Conservatives decided not to go ahead with a Liberal bill to decriminalize small amounts of marijuana.

Since then, the number of people arrested for smoking pot has jumped dramatically in several Canadian cities, in some cases jumping by more than one third.

Toronto, Vancouver, Ottawa and Halifax all reported increases of between 20 and 50 per cent in 2006 of arrests for possession of cannabis, compared with the previous year.

As a result thousands of people were charged with a criminal offence that, under the previous Liberal government, was on the verge of being classified as a misdemeanour.

...

"There hasn't been a meaningful retooling of our strategy to tackle illicit drugs in over 20 years in this country," Mr. Clement said.

"We're going to be into a different world and take tackling these issues very seriously because (of) the impact on the health and safety of our kids."

...

Mr. Clement has suggested in the past that he opposes so-called harm reduction strategies for combatting illegal drug use, including safe-injection sites where nurses provide addicts with clean needles and a safe place to use drugs.

At a Canadian Medical Association meeting last month, he was quoted saying "harm reduction, in a sense, takes many forms. To me, prevention is harm reduction. Treatment is harm reduction. Enforcement is harm reduction."

The following day, a petition signed by over 130 physicians and scientists was released, condemning the Conservative government's "potentially deadly" misrepresentation of the positive evidence for harm reduction programs.

Vancouver's Insite safe injection clinic is facing a December 31 deadline for the renewal of a federal exemption that allows it to operate.

Critics of the Conservative government's approach to illicit drug use say the federal government would be making a serious mistake by failing to renew the exemption.

"I think there's very little chance that Mr. Clement will extend the safe injection site's permit to continue," says Dr. Keith Martin, a British Columbia Liberal MP and former substance-abuse physician.

"But in doing that they will be essentially committing murder."

Advocates say safe-injection sites help to prevent the spread of serious diseases, including AIDS and Hepatitis by preventing users from sharing needles while opponents say the sites simply promote illegal drug use.

Dr. Martin says he's all for increasing penalties for people who sell illegal drugs, including gangsters, but wonders why the Tories would want to target users when he says similar strategies in other countries haven't worked.

"I can't understand why the Conservatives are embracing a war-on-drugs approach that has proven to fail," he said.

"By all means, go after the pushers. By all means, absolutely go after the organized crime gangs that are the real parasites in this situation," he added.

"But for heaven's sake, treat the user as a medical problem and adopt the solutions that have proven to work in other countries."

...

ok, they are not an offical association but i did read this story almost a week ago... the discrepancy is not a big deal however. but when it comes to matters of health, i would much defer it to the experts, the medical professionals, not the politicians. and here we see that response, hard to find in most of he mainstream stories that there was such an outcry from the professionals. i hope this issue puts a nail in the conservative coffin, when the election time comes canadians should know about their self rightous attitudes, those who want to try the same old tired ways that proved to fail before. as we clearly see in the south, where the drug war is an industry in its own right, with value into the billions of dollars and the destruction of thousands of peoples lives, by harsh punitive measures, mandatory minimums not allowing the judge to consider extenuating circumstances. far more harmful than the effects of the drug itself.

[shavluk]

Its like shooting ducks isn't it ,,, tbud?

Can you imagine us being so stupid as to make statements that we have no clue about and hadn't checked after what we go through?

I feel embarrassed for this guy as a lot here must really only deal with liars a lot or something.

They just jump right out winging it here there , saying stupid things and it is fun you have to admit ,,,,

rednecks at every turn,hahhahha

really gripes their ass's when they do eventually realize we are humans

and just demanding our rights whether they chose to participate in our choices or not

Well back to the barrel shoot

adios

pst,,pst,,,,(I have been given this wide berth and persona so I must make these kind of statements for the continued joy and participation of the dreaded redneck who you understand is integral to my battle)

Edited October 5, 2007 by shavluk

[guyser]

Its like shooting ducks isn't it ,,, tbud?

Can you imagine us being so stupid as to make statements that we have no clue about and hadn't checked after what we go through?

I feel embarrassed for this guy as a lot here must really only deal with liars a lot or something.

They just jump right out winging it here there , saying stupid things and it is fun you have to admit ,,,,

rednecks at every turn,hahhahha

really gripes their ass's when they do eventually realize we are humans

and just demanding our rights whether they chose to participate in our choices or not

Well back to the barrel shoot

adios

pst,,pst,,,,(I have been given this wide berth and persona so I must make these kind of statements for the continued joy and participation of the dreaded redneck who you understand is integral to my battle)

Christ, even when one wants to agree with you it is far too hard to do so due to your anger issues and putdowns.

Dont bother yelling at me as I have defended my posts on this and am in your camp, sort of, just that I am embarassed to be seen doing so.

ya know, the whole vinegar sugar thing.

[ScottSA]

This character is out of control. It's not surprising that his semiliterate rants are banned from so many sites. Good grief.

[trex]

Its like shooting ducks isn't it ,,, tbud?

pst,,pst,,,,(I have been given this wide berth and persona so I must make these kind of statements for the continued joy and participation of the dreaded redneck who you understand is integral to my battle)

yes i do understand, and as a fisherman i like to bait my hooks with tasty snacks, then wait and see who will bite... but i dont just make statements like the one i did above out of the blue without supporting facts. i also have a very good memory... dispelling yet another myth about cannabis smokers.

just was reading some news on yahoo canada, and came across some more responses to the outdated ideas of mr. harper-

Group including former Vancouver mayor, judge pan Tory anti-drug strategy

2 hours, 23 minutes ago

By The Canadian Press

VANCOUVER - A coalition of Vancouver health and social groups says prison terms and attempts to scare users straight won't solve Canada's illegal drug problem.

The Beyond Prohibition Coalition says Prime Minister Stephen Harper's new anti-drug strategy is looking for simplistic solutions to what is a complicated health and social issue.

They call the new drug strategy, announced Thursday, naive and based on the prime minister's personal views rather than evidence.

Harper said the government's $64-million program will include mandatory prison terms for serious drug offences but targets two-thirds of the money on prevention, treatment for addicts and anti-drug promotion campaigns aimed at young people.

Former Vancouver mayor Philip Owen says he's puzzled the government is adopting the failed U.S. war-on-drugs approach, and former provincial court judge Jerry Paradis calls the plan simple posturing leading to a fall election.

[trex]

ya know, the whole vinegar sugar thing.

i would say, y'all should be completely used to it by now. around here

for example, i came here to have reasonable debates, and it was some of you folks struck first blood. yet who stood up for me on that day? no one. so i am ready to fend for myself, if you attack me i will give eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, but doubly there unto. and those of you know who i am talking about... but i dont need to insult you, just outhink you.

which in most cases is extremely easy to do.

as even today when canadica came here, how is he treated? same old same old. so dont be too surprised, like i said you may not like what you hear, those of you who are fearful, be afraid.

edit- and when they are ready to enforce the rules, i am ready to play by them. only some here simply cannot, because they have no other legs to stand on, besides their foolishness

Edited October 5, 2007 by tbud

[guyser]

just was reading some news on yahoo canada, and came across some more responses to the outdated ideas of mr. harper-

You havent read about Gavin Newsome the San Fran mayor yet? Go read it.