Harper wants to see Afghan mission extended

[trex]

Canadian PM says Afghan mission could stay longer

Wed Oct 3 2007

Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper said on Wednesday that the country's military mission to Afghanistan could remain longer than scheduled -- an idea bound to anger opposition parties, which have a majority in Parliament.

On Wednesday he said Canada would not leave Afghanistan abruptly if it was clear local authorities were too weak to deal with the Taliban. He also said the nature of the combat mission could change beyond early 2009.

"We have responsibilities toward the population of Kandahar. We accepted the responsibility to sort out security problems and I think we have to make sure -- before we leave -- that the Afghan forces can ensure their own security," Harper said.

"I don't think we can responsibly quit the field of battle and leave the potential for chaos in Kandahar."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071003/wl_nm/afghan_dc

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Hey Mr. Harper, why not give someone else a turn... oh wait, nobody else wants to go there and do it, for some reason.

[M.Dancer]

"I don't think we can responsibly quit the field of battle and leave the potential for chaos in Kandahar."

He is absolutley correct yet between the NDP who propose handing over afghanistan lock stock and poppyt fields to the Taliban and the other parties who will wait till 09 to do that, Haper is the only one who is being:

1)Truthful

2)Pragmatic

[ScottSA]

Sort of like the way the Conservatives were truthful and pragmatic over Kyoto, while the Libs and the NDP, well, lied a lot.

[fellowtraveller]

Clever man. he is articulating some options for remaining after 2009, but has not committed to remaining in a combat role. And he still has his often articulated fallback, which is that parliamnet will decide.

All of this puts more and more pressure on the Liberals, who are going to be backed into a 'put up or shut up' mode - or 'fish or cut bait' as Harper said yesterday.

I think all of this will serve Harper, who will either force an election this fall, or force the Liberals to look even worse by being oblioged to vote with him indefintiely.

[Canadian Blue]

Canada shouldn't leave in 2009, it would spell disaster for the mission and I'd assume we would see the Taliban regain control of the south if that happened. The consequences of a pullout would be regressive, and Afghanistan would be in, or close to the same state it was in August of 2001.

Clever man. he is articulating some options for remaining after 2009, but has not committed to remaining in a combat role. And he still has his often articulated fallback, which is that parliamnet will decide.

The end result may be a move up to the relatively peaceful north, unfortunately the big question is who will pick up the slack in Afghanistan if our soldiers leave the south. The United States is currently stuck in a quagmire in Iraq, and I believe that the British and Dutch population is starting to oppose the mission as well. I doubt we'll see the Germans, French, or Spanish, move down to the south. So once again the future of the south is in limbo.

Edited October 4, 2007 by Canadian Blue

[BornAlbertan]

If we leave before Afghanistan can be stable without us being there, our countrymen have certainly died for nothing.

If we leave because the US, Australia, England etc... can be there to pick up the slack and we "do not need to be there", then we are cowards.

Either way, I would be ashamed and embarrassed to be a Canadian if it came to that.

[ScottSA]

The United States is currently stuck in a quagmire in Iraq,

I love this simplistic flippant description, right out of the Democratic Party talking points.

[trex]

I love this simplistic flippant description, right out of the Democratic Party talking points.

the united states have said this themselves, about being trapped in iraq

[trex]

If we leave before Afghanistan can be stable without us being there, our countrymen have certainly died for nothing.

that would be a sad thing, yes. but what if we can never make a stable afghanistan? it has been attemped many times before.

second, i don't know if there was a pre-condition to agreeing to the extended mission until 2009, that certain objectives must to be accomplished first? was it not that we fulfill our obligation under the UN, and another country has to rotate in and take the leadership role?

[old_bold&cold]

The whole issue of making Afghanistan stable comes down to training their own armed forces and police, and paying them a good living wage so they will not be tempted at corruption. Once they have enough trained and paid troops of their own and can then take on the fight with the insurgency, we as Canadians will have done what we were trying to do. Right now an Afghan recruit is paid approx what you make in a week for a full year, and they have to put their life on the line for this. The Taliban targets these trainees, because they know that their success will mean the Taliban's demise.

We are currently training all we can, but if we do have to move out sooner rather then later, I guess the troops that the USA said they will pull out of Iraq starting next fall, may well end up in Afghanistan. The USA has 13,000 troops their under NATO but they also have 6,000 more that fight under their own missions. I believe these numbers are close but I will not say for sure as it has been a while since I looked at them. Either way though, it will mean that Canada has the choice of completing thr job, or leaving due to politics and set dates. I and anyone who has pride in Canada, will see the things get completed and then an honourable withdrawl.

[Fortunata]

that would be a sad thing, yes. but what if we can never make a stable afghanistan? it has been attemped many times before.

I don't think that NATO alone can make a stable Afghanistan. However, our participation can help so the Afghani's themselves can make a stable Afghanistan. They have to want to and we're there so, if and when ordinary people (because that's what it's going to take) do, it can be accommodated.

[M.Dancer]

I know there is a lot of anguish that other NATO nations aren't lining up as they should. For me though, I fel there should be a greater role played by other Muslims nations, particulary Pkistan who has a direct interst in a secure and stable Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia....

[Canadian Blue]

I love this simplistic flippant description, right out of the Democratic Party talking points.

It beats the Republican notion that the insurgency will be over within a month, which is a contention they have had since the summer of '03.

[jdobbin]

I know there is a lot of anguish that other NATO nations aren't lining up as they should. For me though, I fel there should be a greater role played by other Muslims nations, particulary Pkistan who has a direct interst in a secure and stable Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia....

I think it is a major issue about the commitment of our allies and the Afghans themselves. It seem too many countries are cheering from the rear.

The Harper government wants to extend the combat mission for two years without extracting anything from our allies in terms of relief or support.

Violence is up this year to the highest level since the war began. The Dutch are about to reduce their commitment. Australia said today they have no plans to jump in if the Dutch leave soon. Increasingly, the Germans are coming under attack.

Meanwhile, attacks on Afghans and international forces continue. One U.S. sailor was killed yesterday, five Dutch troops were wounded today and an Italian agent died from his wounds sustained several days ago. Increasingly, the Germans are coming under attack.

A former British diplomat says it is wrong to build up the rhetoric that that progress is being made.

http://canadianpress.google.com/article/AL...9K5cmADhYd3J4xA

"NATO has set itself up for failure by taking on far more than it could possibly achieve," he said Wednesday during a visit to Ottawa.

"Canada's great challenge is to identify three or four things that could realistically be done with the kind of resources, commitment and will that we have. And to make sure we achieve them in a way that leaves Canadian people feeling proud, NATO feeling that it's done something and, most important of all, the Afghans feeling that they've gotten something out of this intervention."

Those three or four things may include efforts to improve education and infrastructure in Kabul and other relatively peaceful zones where such development is welcome, Stewart says.

Military action could be channelled to keep insurgents from controlling major cities, he suggests, while special forces could be used to monitor religious schools that double as training cells for terrorists.

That would leave huge swaths of the South without the kind of development many Afghans want, he concedes.

"You can only do what you can do."

Citizens who want greater freedoms and services may eventually gravitate toward centres where they've been allowed to flourish, he says.

Stewart, 34, now lives in Kabul after increasingly harrowing diplomatic stints in Indonesia, Montenegro and finally Iraq. The Oxford-educated former British army officer set off in 2001 on a 10,000-kilometre walk across Afghanistan, Pakistan, India and Nepal. The dangerous, epic journey started in the months just after the Taliban fell and was the basis for his acclaimed memoir The Places in Between.

I don't know that a commitment until 2012 is going to get the progress that Afghanistan needs or that Canada can deliver.

[trex]

I don't know that a commitment until 2012 is going to get the progress that Afghanistan needs or that Canada can deliver.

nor does it make sense to expend more lives in a futile endeavour, for the sake of making those lives already lost somehow a more meaningful sacrifice. we need to decide when enough is enough.

Edited October 4, 2007 by tbud

[ScottSA]

nor does it make sense to expend more lives in a futile endeavour, for the sake of making those lives already lost somehow a more meaningful sacrifice. we need to decide when enough is enough.

Wow, how many joints did it take to produce that tongue twisting bit o' wisdom?

[M.Dancer]

Wow, how many joints did it take to produce that tongue twisting bit o' wisdom?

You have to stop reading posts aloud....

[trex]

Wow, how many joints did it take to produce that tongue twisting bit o' wisdom?

again with the insults... do youhave anything meaningful to add

[M.Dancer]

again with the insults... do youhave anything meaningful to add

Be careful what you ask for lest you get a lesson on literary alliteration leading to modern methods of political prose from Scott......

[trex]

Be careful what you ask for lest you get a lesson on literary alliteration leading to modern methods of political prose from Scott......

i only ask that he stop the childishness, not "cute" at all.

[ScottSA]

literary alliteration

I wasn't aware that a non-literary alliteration existed. Isn't this redundant redundant?

[M.Dancer]

I wasn't aware that a non-literary alliteration existed. Isn't this redundant redundant?

Academic alliteration, and garbled goat alliteration

Primarily the principles of pythagoras are based on broad........maniacal morris the nine to five nutter.......

Edited October 4, 2007 by M.Dancer

[BornAlbertan]

We have our finger in the pie...either we can be the pussies and lick our finger clean and leave our mark and leave it ugly...or cut ourselves a slice and make it look pretty again

[Topaz]

Harper knows that if he keeps his minority government he WON"T be able to extend the mission, so sooner or later he has to call an election UNLESS he can goat one of the parties to bring down the government and THAT party have the voters really peeve that them! We just have to watch and see how much money Harper is spending and then we know he's in election-mode. I do know someone who works for one of his ministers and they have been busy going here and there and acting like an election could be soon. Harper did say in New York to the reports something about an election in the NEAR future. So if he doesn't want one why talk about it??? As far as Afghanistan, Canada will have to withdraw when our troop levels fall to low and unless something really changes over there, like the government, its going to be like buying a lemon of a car, and keep putting time and money in it and getting nothing back except bodybags and debt! That is harsh be true.

[ScottSA]

Academic alliteration, and garbled goat alliteration

Primarily the principles of pythagoras are based on broad........maniacal morris the nine to five nutter.......

Neither "nasty nancy nutter nazi boys" nor "maniacal morris the nine to five nutter" are examples of alliteration. They are cadence chants from the rower's deck of a Roman galley, generally shouted out ever faster in time to a drum as the iron ramming horn approaches an enemy's hull. As for academic alliteration...never seen it before.