Group Sues Pentagon Over First Amendment Religion Issue

[fcgv]

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/091807R.shtml

Seems to me it is just another example of a small group trying to change the will of the majority.

[guyser]

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/091807R.shtml

Seems to me it is just another example of a small group trying to change the will of the majority.

Read your own link again then.

[Shakeyhands]

craziness. If there is any truth to that those men should be court martialed and dishonorably discharged.

[ScottSA]

Before you folks on the left have too many wet dreams in a row, remember this is a complaint, nothing more. In all probability it will turn out to be the usual harebrained attempt to fabricate a crisis where none exists, in the spirit of the frequent "oopsies" being committed by Soros of late.

[Shakeyhands]

craziness. If there is any truth to that those men should be court martialed and dishonorably discharged.

No wet dreams here... lovely by the way.

[Liam]

... just proof that there are crazies on both sides of the issue. Whether or not the soldier's story is true or the sargeant's will come out eventually.

[Guest American Woman]

With over 5,000 soldiers saying they were pressured to convert to Christianity, it's about time the military was called on it. Hopefully this lawsuit will put an end to the practice, though I'm wondering just how widespread it was. In a way, it's rather odd that no one has said anything about it up until now.

[guyser]

In a way, it's rather odd that no one has said anything about it up until now.

The "attack on Christianity" bumper sticker has worked , even though there has been no attacking of C'nity. Yea O'Reilly !!! blechhhhh

If true, the Mil needs to stop.

[ScottSA]

With over 5,000 soldiers saying they were pressured to convert to Christianity, it's about time the military was called on it. Hopefully this lawsuit will put an end to the practice, though I'm wondering just how widespread it was. In a way, it's rather odd that no one has said anything about it up until now.

I would slow down on believing that claim if I were you. First, it comes from someone with an obvious axe to grind, since he's been "waging a war" against the Pentagon for years. Second, "pressured" is entirely open to interpretation, like those ridiculous feminist "research polls" of the mid 90s that found that about 250% of women had been "abused", the definition of which included "leering" and "condescension" as well as "perceived abuse", whatever that is. Third, the figure itself seems highly improbable. I can't think of that many commanding officers accosting that many men and "pressuring" them to "convert." Something just ain't right with that figure.

[Guest American Woman]

By the same token, perhaps you should slow down on dismissing it. While one person may have "an axe to grind," it's difficult to perceive that more than 5,000 have an axe to grind. I've posted excerpts with links to more claims that the pentagon is pushing Christianity in the military.

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With the endorsement of the Defense Department, OSU is mailing "Freedom Packages" to soldiers serving in Iraq. ... Besides pairs of white socks and boxes of baby wipes ... OSU's care packages contain the controversial Left Behind: Eternal Forces video game. The game is inspired by Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins' bestselling pulp fiction series about a blood-soaked Battle of Armageddon pitting born-again Christians against anybody who does not adhere to their particular theology. In LaHaye's and Jenkins' books, the non-believers are ultimately condemned to "everlasting punishment" while the evangelicals are "raptured" up to heaven.

The Left Behind videogame is a real-time strategy game that makes players commanders of a virtual evangelical army in a post-apocalyptic landscape that looks strikingly like New York City after 9/11. With tanks, helicopters and a fearsome arsenal of automatic weapons at their disposal, Left Behind players wage a violent war against United Nations-like peacekeepers who, according to LaHaye's interpretation of Revelation, represent the armies of the Antichrist. Each time a Left Behind player kills a UN soldier, their virtual character exclaims, "Praise the Lord!" To win the game, players must kill or convert all the non-believers left behind after the rapture. They also have the option of reversing roles and commanding the forces of the Antichrist.

What's more, OSU's "Freedom Packages" include a copy of evangelical pastor Jonathan McDowell's More Than A Carpenter -- a book advertised as "one of the most powerful evangelism tools worldwide" -- that is double-published in Arabic. Considering that only a handful of American troops speak Arabic, the book is ostensibly intended for proselytizing efforts among Iraqi civilians. Link

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Navy veteran David Miller said that when he checked into the Veterans Affairs Medical Center in Iowa City, he didn’t realize he would get a hard sell for Christian fundamentalism along with treatment for his kidney stones.

Miller, 46, an Orthodox Jew, said he was repeatedly proselytized by hospital chaplains and staff in attempts to convert him to Christianity during three hospitalizations over the past two years. Link

[ScottSA]

By the same token, perhaps you should slow down on dismissing it. While one person may have "an axe to grind," it's difficult to perceive that more than 5,000 have an axe to grind. Link

My point is that I seriously doubt that number and the definition of what exactly is going on. Most evangelical Christians by definition WILL "push" their religion, but whether that becomes coercive through chain of command is extremely questionable.

[kuzadd]

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/a...1&cset=true

Not so fast, Christian soldiers

The Pentagon has a disturbing relationship with private evangelical groups

Last week, after an investigation spurred by the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, the Pentagon abruptly announced that it would not be delivering "freedom packages" to our soldiers in Iraq, as it had originally intended.

What were the packages to contain? Not body armor or home-baked cookies. Rather, they held Bibles, proselytizing material in English and Arabic and the apocalyptic computer game "Left Behind: Eternal Forces" (derived from the series of post-Rapture novels), in which "soldiers for Christ" hunt down enemies who look suspiciously like U.N. peacekeepers.

The packages were put together by a fundamentalist Christian ministry called Operation Straight Up, or OSU.

brainwashing, hate mongering, bah, organized religion disgusts me!

anyway, this isn't the first time.......

Take, for instance, the recent scandal involving Christian Embassy, a group whose expressed purpose is to proselytize to military personnel, diplomats, Capitol Hill staffers and political appointees.

"Our military personnel swear an oath to protect and defend the Constitution, not the Bible."

Edited September 24, 2007 by kuzadd

[moderateamericain]

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/a...1&cset=true

Not so fast, Christian soldiers

The Pentagon has a disturbing relationship with private evangelical groups

brainwashing, hate mongering, bah, organized religion disgusts me!

anyway, this isn't the first time.......

"Our military personnel swear an oath to protect and defend the Constitution, not the Bible."

Thank god when i was in, we had a fairly level headed CO. Theres no such thing as as an athiest in a foxhole but at the same time, this is far over the top. Seperation of church and state. The constitution is the HIGHEST LAW OF THE LAND. Its bigger than the military, its bigger than any general, its bigger than the president or congress. Alot of these kids are getting a daily dose or religious indoctrination. My brother has been getting it quite a bit.

[Guest American Woman]

"Our military personnel swear an oath to protect and defend the Constitution, not the Bible."

TThe constitution is the HIGHEST LAW OF THE LAND. Its bigger than the military, its bigger than any general, its bigger than the president or congress. Alot of these kids are getting a daily dose or religious indoctrination. My brother has been getting it quite a bit.

It's very upsetting to think that the troops are being pressured by a religious 'force.' You both hit the nail on the head; it's the constitution, not religion, that the military is pledged to. A lot of moderate religions in America are concerned about these strong fundametalists and the influence they exert over our country too.

It's good that this is finally out in the open. Hopefully it will be dealt with as strongly as it should.

[buffycat]

I'd like to see organised religion OUT of everything and left at home/church/synagogue/temple. Period.