OPP finally act

[kengs333]

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Edited December 29, 2007 by kengs333

[jennie]

UPDATE:

Albert Douglas, 31, of Ohsweken, wanted for the attempted murder of a police officer in Caledonia in June 2006 was arrested in Morrisburg, Ont., yesterday for a traffic violation.

Douglas is charged with attempted murder, two counts of robbery, three of assault, forcible confinement, dangerous driving, failing to remain at a collision causing bodily harm, and failure to comply with bail conditions.

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Also yesterday, a 15-year-old youth wanted in connection with the Sept. 13 assault on Gualtieri surrendered to the Cayuga OPP. He's charged with assault, break and enter and uttering threats.

(thespec.com)

I expect the 15 year old will be pleading "self defense" as he had some pretty nasty marks on his throat/adam's apple showing how tightly Gualtieri had him up against the wall with a bar/bat across his throat.

[kengs333]

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Edited December 29, 2007 by kengs333

[Posit]

If that was the case, then he could have gone straight to the police and his injuries would have been noted, and it could have been used in his defence. Instead, he chose to run, which as it always does in such circumstance, re-inforces the notion that he is guilty. Moreover, now it can't be determined whether or not the injuries are consistant the story being put out by the Six Nations.

Ummmm....if you in fact followed the story, the three boys ran because three other men were coming in to attack them with 2x4's. And I have no doubt that had they stuck around the mob mentality of the Caledonians that gathered that night would have convicted and sentenced them without any trial.

Funny too that the story put out by the builder changed almost every day for a week following and the story as told by the three boys remained consistent from the beginning. If you are so quick to judge, then what about the embellishments told by the brother Joe?

[kengs333]

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Edited December 29, 2007 by kengs333

[jennie]

This is so outrageously false. I would prefer to base my conclusions on facts, and I'm not 100% sure about the builder's story, but everything seems to be pointing in the direction of the "site security" being at fault.

Not exactly. Much too soon to conclude that. There is some video of the Gualtieris before they go in, some injury evidence, etc to be considered.

Speaking of changing stories, you claim it was 2x4's, jennie claims that it was a "bar/bat". I've heard so many wildly differing accounts from the Six Nations side that it's difficult to accept anything from them as credible.

Sam Gualtieri was carrying a bat, or bar of some kind that he brought from his truck. It's in the video.

Then it was across the throat of a fifteen year old, pinning him to the wall.

I don't know what was said, but the fact is the OPP had closed the site. The Gualtieris snuck in the back. There was no one in their house then. They were playing 'capture the flag', I guess ... with a baseball bat ... just in case some kid ran between it and the wall ... or something.

This Joe Gualtieri speaks always of what the nephews saw or did, never himself.

Was he or was he not there? He has never said.

He said the nephews went for 2x4's.

Edited September 29, 2007 by jennie

[jbg]

This is so outrageously false. I would prefer to base my conclusions on facts, and I'm not 100% sure about the builder's story, but everything seems to be pointing in the direction of the "site security" being at fault.

Site security = thugs??

[Posit]

Site security = thugs??

Site security = OPP

[ScottSA]

Site security = OPP

So the "youths" belonged to the OPP?

[kengs333]

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Edited December 29, 2007 by kengs333

[jennie]

Your story keeps changing. Now it's "a bat, or bar of some kind". (Next week no doubt it will be an RPG or something.--that's sarcasm in case you can't tell.) And now there's a video that nobody's has seen.

And yes, of course the site was closed and the Indians were still there but for some reason the owner's shouldn't have been there to protect it.

They were not the owners of the entire site. They were just the builders of two houses.

The Developer was in negotiations and the OPP had closed the site.

Builders and their crews were not to be on the site.

Just want to be sure you are not surprised at the outcome. The facts are not clear enough yet to be drawing hasty conclusions.

[Posit]

The confusion lies only in what Joe Gualtieri told the media what the "15 men" beat Sam Gualtieri with. First he said it was a 2x4, then a baseball bat, then an oak picket. Yet the 15 year old claimed that Sam had him pinned up against the wall with the oak picket pushing across his neck.

Only Joe's story has changed. The boys and the other witnesses have remained consistent.

[ScottSA]

The confusion lies only in what Joe Gualtieri told the media what the "15 men" beat Sam Gualtieri with. First he said it was a 2x4, then a baseball bat, then an oak picket. Yet the 15 year old claimed that Sam had him pinned up against the wall with the oak picket pushing across his neck.

Only Joe's story has changed. The boys and the other witnesses have remained consistent.

How bout you get someone to come up behind you and whack you over the head hard enough to put you in a coma, then try to identify the piece of wood. The material facts haven't changed one whit, no matter how hard you try to throw the blame on the victim.

[kengs333]

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Edited December 29, 2007 by kengs333

[kengs333]

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Edited December 29, 2007 by kengs333

[noahbody]

Only Joe's story has changed. The boys and the other witnesses have remained consistent.

Which story is that? The 5 on 2 story? The one where Joe stands by and watches his brother beaten? The one where one of the natives is 14 and the other a bit older?

There were only three with Sam, Joe wasn't there. There have been warrants for three natives, two of them 18.

Here's an account from one of the nephews who was there:

http://www.thespec.com/News/Local/article/249113

[Posit]

Which story is that? The 5 on 2 story? The one where Joe stands by and watches his brother beaten? The one where one of the natives is 14 and the other a bit older?

There were only three with Sam, Joe wasn't there. There have been warrants for three natives, two of them 18.

Here's an account from one of the nephews who was there:

http://www.thespec.com/News/Local/article/249113

The jury is out as to whether Joe was there or not. The media at first implied he wasn't there and then at one point he acknowledges that he and his two nephews went outside to see if they could find some 2x4s. That would seem to imply he was there. And it would also imply that at one point they felt confident enough that Sam had things under control even though they went into the house to confront the boys. When they returned he was lying unconscious on the floor and the boys were running out the back door. No one but the boys saw the attack and only they know who (which of the three boys) hit him. However

Joe's first statement to the media was that Sam was attacked by 15 warriors. 3 boys are a far cry from 15 warriors, you think?

The four went into the home and Gualtieri ordered the protesters out. Davies says he didn't see who threw the first punch, but described Gualtieri struggling with one person while the others squared off.

The 33-year-old said he and a cousin left the house to grab two-by-fours and started back in to discover Gualtieri lying on the floor as he was struck with a piece of wood. Davies said he screamed to natives outside the house for help and the attackers fled.

Using my math skills it was 4 men on 3 boys confrontation. Either way machismo got in the way and Sam ended up paying the price. "Machismo" BTW is not a word from the Iroquoian languages.

Edited September 30, 2007 by Posit

[noahbody]

The 33-year-old said he and a cousin left the house to grab two-by-fours and started back in to discover Gualtieri lying on the floor as he was struck with a piece of wood. Davies said he screamed to natives outside the house for help and the attackers fled.

[/i]

Using my math skills it was 4 men on 3 boys confrontation. Either way machismo got in the way and Sam ended up paying the price. "Machismo" BTW is not a word from the Iroquoian languages.

Mrs. Brown has four apples. If she puts them together with three oranges what is the ratio of apples to oranges? (Answer: 4:3) If three of the apples go outside to get 2x4s, what is the ratio of apples to oranges in the house? (Answer: 1:3)

Secondly, if a boy becomes a man at 18, what was the ratio of men to boys? And what were the ages of the nephews and other worker? Were they all over 18?

You must have been working security when you should have been going to Math class.

Edited September 30, 2007 by noahbody

[jennie]

Mrs. Brown has four apples. If she puts them together with three oranges what is the ratio of apples to oranges? (Answer: 4:3) If three of the apples go outside to get 2x4s, what is the ratio of apples to oranges in the house? (Answer: 1:3)

Secondly, if a boy becomes a man at 18, what was the ratio of men to boys? And what were the ages of the nephews and other worker? Were they all over 18?

The 33-year-old said he and a cousin left the house to grab

There's one answer.

will you kids please READ. -end rant- Thank you.

AHHHH ... but the question is were there THREE apples outside ... or was uncle apple inside watching, but doesn't want to say what he saw ... ???

You may have to read back to find out.

Edited September 30, 2007 by jennie

[noahbody]

The 33-year-old said he and a cousin left the house to grab

There's one answer.

will you kids please READ. -end rant- Thank you.

Please explain how that answers the question "Were they all over 18?"? Gee, I think it's you who should read.

[ScottSA]

What a silly conversation. A bunch of FAS thugs beat up someone in his own property. Nothing else matters; certainly not whether it was a baseball bat, 2x4 or log that the beating was done with. The OPP should have gone in and arrested them, and if it couldn't handle the job, the army should have gone in and arrested them, preferably with a large expenditure of bullets. And arrest the rest of the tribe and force them into workfare, so they don't have so much time on their hands to sit around drinking and feeling dispossessed.

Edited October 1, 2007 by ScottSA

[jennie]

The jury is out as to whether Joe was there or not. The media at first implied he wasn't there and then at one point he acknowledges that he and his two nephews went outside to see if they could find some 2x4s. That would seem to imply he was there. And it would also imply that at one point they felt confident enough that Sam had things under control even though they went into the house to confront the boys. When they returned he was lying unconscious on the floor and the boys were running out the back door. No one but the boys saw the attack and only they know who (which of the three boys) hit him. However

Joe's first statement to the media was that Sam was attacked by 15 warriors. 3 boys are a far cry from 15 warriors, you think?

Yes the accounts of Joe's behaviour and presence or lack of are confusing. It would be extremely unexpected, I would think, for him to leave Sam alone with "15 warriors" I would think.

[kengs333]

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Edited December 29, 2007 by kengs333

[Posit]

Yes the accounts of Joe's behaviour and presence or lack of are confusing. It would be extremely unexpected, I would think, for him to leave Sam alone with "15 warriors" I would think.

It would be even more distressing for 3 men to leave one alone with 3 boys unless they thought he had the upper hand.

[noahbody]

It would be even more distressing for 3 men to leave one alone with 3 boys unless they thought he had the upper hand.

3 boys? Unless two of them were conceived after 2 a.m and some ancient law allows them to be characterized as "young children" or "boys" for life, there were two native men being that they were over 18.