Occupations, barricades mean politicians can't ignore native issue

[M.Dancer]

.

We haven't, and now we do have to answer for that.

We should tell them to piss off.

[jennie]

Their's used to be. Otherwise cultural icons like the wheel, livestock and steel might have appeared.

I don't think you have any credibility as a historian on this topic.

[jennie]

We should tell them to piss off.

So you have no feasible solutions to offer?

The only solution necessary is for our governments to follow our law.

Would you agree that they should?

Edited September 21, 2007 by jennie

[M.Dancer]

So you have no feasible solutions to offer?

The only solution necessary is for our governments to follow our law.

Would you agree that they should?

I think the governement should make everyone follow one law. I think individuals who claim not to nbe Canadians citizens, yet have their lips firmly on the public tit should be deported. I think individuals who hold communities hostage should be jailed. I think leaders who urge their followers to break the law should be imprisoned far far away.

I think enough is enough. They can always move to Nunavut, but they may be required to work for a living, not being Canadians and not entitled to Canadian benefits..... so I suspect that won't happen,

[M.Dancer]

I don't think you have any credibility as a historian on this topic.

You were correct on the first 3 words...after that you lost it. Lets face it...stone age cultures remained stone age because they were static.....Whether the wording of a myth to explain corn changed somewhat over 4000 years is irrelevant...they had a dead end culture.

[jennie]

I think the governement should make everyone follow one law. I think individuals who claim not to nbe Canadians citizens, yet have their lips firmly on the public tit should be deported. I think individuals who hold communities hostage should be jailed. I think leaders who urge their followers to break the law should be imprisoned far far away.

I think enough is enough. They can always move to Nunavut, but they may be required to work for a living, not being Canadians and not entitled to Canadian benefits..... so I suspect that won't happen,

They cannot legally be deported. This is their homeland.

I find it odd that you repeatedly demand that they obey our laws, and yet you have NOTHING to say about whether our governments should also obey our laws.

You see, if our governments WERE following our own laws, NONE of these blockades or confrontations would have had to happen. If you don't yet understand what I mean then you have nothing to add to this thread.

Edited September 21, 2007 by jennie

[M.Dancer]

You see, if our governments WERE following our own laws, NONE of these blockades or confrontations would have had to happen.

That is a matter of opinion and that is before the courts. ......And it doesn't justify breaking the law. I am having a territorial dispute with my neighbour but you don't see me burning tires on her doorstep or beating the crap our of her because I believe she is on my land....perhaps if I was traditional I could do that and claim I don't have to follow canadian law......

If you don't yet understand what I mean then you have nothing to add to this thread.

I understand what you mean, I just think it's bullshit.

[jennie]

That is a matter of opinion and that is before the courts. ......And it doesn't justify breaking the law. I am having a territorial dispute with my neighbour but you don't see me burning tires on her doorstep or beating the crap our of her because I believe she is on my land....perhaps if I was traditional I could do that and claim I don't have to follow canadian law......

I understand what you mean, I just think it's bullshit.

This is more like if you are having a territorial dispute with your neighbour, and she starts building her garage on the disputed property.

The province and the federal government have a Duty to Consult about developments on disputed land, but they have not fulfilled that responsibility. Instead, they have abandoned Six Nations and the developers to work it out on their own. We now see the result of the unclear messages from the governments: violence.

It has not been established who attacked who, and I would wait for the facts before making assumptions of guilt. There is evidence that the builder came back to the site with a baseball bat and a crew, looking for a fight.

[M.Dancer]

It has not been established who attacked who, and I would wait for the facts before making assumptions of guilt. There is evidence that the builder came back to the site with a baseball bat and a crew, looking for a fight.

Rose coloured glasses. The thugs had no right to be on private property. Residents should be armed.

[M.Dancer]

There is evidence that the builder came back to the site with a baseball bat and a crew, looking for a fight.

I can smell that lie from here.

If there was evidence he came with a crew.....where were the crew? Did the medicine man shoo them away to medicine land?

If all that were true, why wasn't a young punk lying near death, instead of a lone 50 year old man......

You know, for an apologist who defends aboriginal lawbreaking and violence, you really should have more shame.

[jennie]

I can smell that lie from here.

If there was evidence he came with a crew.....where were the crew? Did the medicine man shoo them away to medicine land?

If all that were true, why wasn't a young punk lying near death, instead of a lone 50 year old man......

You know, for an apologist who defends aboriginal lawbreaking and violence, you really should have more shame.

There is video of the builder and crew lying in wait. The man subsequently injured was the one carrying a baseball bat.

It is reported that he attacked the 15 year old. Some reports say his brother and nephews were present. Then the 18 year olds came in and attacked him to get him off the younger teen. The builder's brother watched, the nephews ran outside to get two by fours. However, it was all over by the time they returned.

You are again making snide and racist cultural references.

Funny how aggressive racism surfaces when the truth doesn't fit your prejudices.

[jennie]

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index....&pid=251844

M Dancer's question ... 'Can I provide evidence of the support of Canadians for honouring treaties' ... Yes of course.

Angus-Reid, 2002

" Governments should respect Aboriginal treaties.

Question : In your view, should governments respect treaties signed by Caucasians and Aboriginals in the past ?

n=1500 YES NO Don’t know

Canada 68% 19% 13%

A very similar survey was done in May 2007 by Ipsos, and was repeated early in July after the June 29 Day of Action.

It showed about the same support initially - 69% I believe - rising to 77% after the Day of Action.

Interestingly, 33% of Canadians also supported their right to blockade.

Support of Canadians rose to its highest levels ever during the Oka crisis.

Despite the governments' misinformation campaigns, Canadians are not stupid: They know who is breaking the law and it is our governments themselves.

[M.Dancer]

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index....&pid=251844

M Dancer's question ... 'Can I provide evidence of the support of Canadians for honouring treaties' ... Yes of course.

Angus-Reid, 2002

" Governments should respect Aboriginal treaties.

Question : In your view, should governments respect treaties signed by Caucasians and Aboriginals in the past ?

n=1500 YES NO Don’t know

Canada 68% 19% 13%

A very similar survey was done in May 2007 by Ipsos, and was repeated early in July after the June 29 Day of Action.

It showed about the same support initially - 69% I believe - rising to 77% after the Day of Action.

Interestingly, 33% of Canadians also supported their right to blockade.

Support of Canadians rose to its highest levels ever during the Oka crisis.

Despite the governments' misinformation campaigns, Canadians are not stupid: They know who is breaking the law and it is our governments themselves.

links please

[jennie]

links please

http://www.queensu.ca/cora/polls/2002/Sept...-Aboriginal.pdf

I can't find the Ipsos one, but the results are similar, except for the increase after June 29.

Edited September 21, 2007 by jennie

[noahbody]

Interestingly, 33% of Canadians also supported their right to blockade.

I guess 33% of natives decided to be Canadian on that day.

[M.Dancer]

http://www.queensu.ca/cora/polls/2002/Sept...-Aboriginal.pdf

I can't find the Ipsos one, but the results are similar, except for the increase after June 29.

" Aboriginals shouldn’t have total authority over new Canadian territories.

Question : Do you think the government should give Aboriginals total authority, that is administrative,

economic, etc., over Canada’s new territories?

n=1500 YES NO Don’t know

Canada 32% 54% 14%

Do you think this should be the case if there are Caucasians living in the territory?

Canada 24% 59% 18%

I bet these numbers change less in favour of the goons every time they break the law.

[jennie]

I guess 33% of natives decided to be Canadian on that day.

At the risk of confusing you, it is 33% of Canadians (representing about 10m, or about 6m adults), not natives (which would only be 300,000).

It was a random poll. Reserves are generally excluded from those (as they use StatsCan's 'Labour Force' sample).

It is extremely unlikely that aboriginal people were overrepresented in the sample.

Is it necessary to distort facts into ignorant insults in order to malign decent people?

Is that what your ego requires? How sad for you.

It may just be that many of you with such nasty tendencies will have to eat your words, and I for one look forward to that day.

Edited September 21, 2007 by jennie

[AngusThermopyle]

in order to malign decent people?

Damn! You're right!

I'm so, so, sorry.

Now you've brought it to my attention I've come to realise that all decent people rip up roads, burn anything they can get their hands on, and form large groups to assault people.

How could I have been so blind?

[jennie]

Damn! You're right!

I'm so, so, sorry.

Now you've brought it to my attention I've come to realise that all decent people rip up roads, burn anything they can get their hands on, and form large groups to assault people.

How could I have been so blind?

Decent people encourage their governments to uphold the law, Constitution and treaties so we DON'T end up with such confrontations.

So can I say I have your support too?

Edited September 22, 2007 by jennie

[jbg]

This is more like if you are having a territorial dispute with your neighbour, and she starts building her garage on the disputed property.

Don't laugh. The ancient tribe of Gideon (one of Jacob's sons in the Old Testament) is claiming to own Scarsdale, an extremely valuable and affluent suburb of New York City, based on an oral tradition. They're "doing security" on the highways going through town, burning tires, etc.

</sarcasm>

[jennie]

Don't laugh. The ancient tribe of Gideon (one of Jacob's sons in the Old Testament) is claiming to own Scarsdale, an extremely valuable and affluent suburb of New York City, based on an oral tradition. They're "doing security" on the highways going through town, burning tires, etc.

</sarcasm>

nah not good sarcasm ... just in bad taste.

[ScottSA]

nah not good sarcasm ... just in bad taste.

The only thing in bad taste around here is the utter confusion in your mind, one minute appealing to canadian law and the next claiming exemption from it. I don't suppose we have anyone but ourselves to blame for it though...we've allowed this foolishness to carry on for so long we don't even notice the ridiculousness of pretending that the Indians somehow have a mystic "bond" with nature, when the very forests shudder whenever an Indian gets his hands on a chainsaw. And that of course is the main joke; machinegunning whales, spotlighting deers, and dynamiting fish in the name of "tradition"; while excusing it all by looking pious in front of tourists and burning a few wisps of hay to some animist god no one even remembers, before they go back to the house built by whitey with a fridge built by whitey to drink beer brewed by whitey and collect a cheque issued by whitey for the grievous sin of supplying free medicare, pension benefits and all the industrial luxuries Indians so claim to disdain. Fawlty Towers on its worst day was saner than this situation.

Edited September 22, 2007 by ScottSA

[jennie]

The only thing in bad taste around here is the utter confusion in your mind, one minute appealing to canadian law and the next claiming exemption from it.

Not me. I demand that my governments uphold our laws. Indigenous people speak for themselves.

I don't suppose we have anyone but ourselves to blame for it though...we've allowed this foolishness to carry on for so long we don't even notice the ridiculousness of pretending that the Indians somehow have a mystic "bond" with nature, when the very forests shudder whenever an Indian gets his hands on a chainsaw. And that of course is the main joke; machinegunning whales, spotlighting deers, and dynamiting fish in the name of "tradition"; while excusing it all by looking pious in front of tourists and burning a few wisps of hay to some animist god no one even remembers, before they go back to the house built by whitey with a fridge built by whitey to drink beer brewed by whitey and collect a cheque issued by whitey for the grievous sin of supplying free medicare, pension benefits and all the industrial luxuries Indians so claim to disdain. Fawlty Towers on its worst day was saner than this situation.

Don't confuse me with wherever else you got all those mangled stereotypes.

[jbg]

nah not good sarcasm ... just in bad taste.

No sense of humour or humor? Does the world weigh too heavily with all of these problems to smile once in a while?

[kengs333]

Decent people encourage their governments to uphold the law, Constitution and treaties so we DON'T end up with such confrontations.

So can I say I have your support too?

Any appeals to doing the morally right thing in this matter hold no water considering the thug behaviour of Six Nations people for the last two years.