Flaherty calls on business to reduce prices.

[jdobbin]

The proof will be in the pudding. Yet again another unsourced statement from the Government to prove your point...

It is easy to put off promises of tax cuts. We'll see how that appeals to the base. I think that anyone with any brains can see that spending has been on the rise for two years of Tory rule.

[Michael Bluth]

It is easy to put off promises of tax cuts. We'll see how that appeals to the base. I think that anyone with any brains can see that spending has been on the rise for two years of Tory rule.

What is the promise you referred to? Source? Link?

[jdobbin]

What is the promise you referred to? Source? Link?

You don't read them anyways. Remember your response on the Wheat Board thread?

[Michael Bluth]

You don't read them anyways. Remember your response on the Wheat Board thread?

So you won't provide a source or a link. So very credible. So typical of a Liberal supporter. All attack and bluster, no proof or evidence.

[jdobbin]

So you won't provide a source or a link. So very credible. So typical of a Liberal supporter. All attack and bluster, no proof or evidence.

Still no reply on your post on the Wheat Board?

The Tories had been promising tax cuts to business in the months ahead of this last budget.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...get2007&no_ads=

But a glaring omission is the much-promised elimination of the tax on capital gains reinvested within six months.

While Perrin Beatty of the Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters called his sector ''the major winner,'' the relatively modest measures left most of the business community outside looking in at the feast of spending -- about $10 billion -- that went elsewhere, including to the provinces in new transfers, the working poor and seniors.

Moreover, Flaherty cracked down on tax loopholes that allow Canadian companies to write off money borrowed domestically to fund foreign operations.

"We don't see any broad-based tax relief either for taxpayers or businesses,'' said Nancy Hughes Anthony of the Canadian Chamber of Commerce, the country's largest business group.

Flaherty had to back away from the so-called tax loophole he closed but the rest of his budget left businesses out in the cold.

Many of the tax cuts are so way out into the future. 2011 is a tax promise?

[Michael Bluth]

-----End of thread hijack and back to the actual questions of the thread.----

Geoff,

Look at the ferocity of reaction to Mike Harris in Ontario. He came no where near making the cuts you call for here.

How could a Federal Government expect to survive with such a radical agenda?

As for what to cut? Again, idealistically almost everything but law enforcement and some infrastructure. The military should be severely scaled back, Health Canada completely gutted and tossed to the curb, the elimination of all Indian programs, the government completely out of culture (ie. CBC and museums and zoos), having citizens pay out of pocket for foreign travel situations that require assistance (good market for private insurance), completely eliminate all corporate loan guarntees, end funding of all special interest groups.

Let's take it further. Completely eliminate all Federal spending and taxation to cover this spending in areas of provincial jurisdiction. That should move the Federal rate down to next to nothing. If a province wants something, the locals can pay for it. Don't like your province's choices? Move.

Pragmatically, there are lots of cuts that would be great to see. But shifting corporate taxes into income or consumption taxes would be the most honest thing for the government to do.

[mikedavid00]

Yet another interventionist policy from our centrally planned friends at the CPC.

Let business set their own prices. This has to be the most political, ridiculous and destructive announcement I have ever heard from Flaherty, next to the Income Trusts of course.

What are you talking about?

He's right. All the close US dollar has allowed us to do is buy more stuff of ebay. Not just me, but people at work and my fiances work.

I mean.. i TRY to buy stuff here in Canada, but these stores are still playing the 40% markup game thinking that that it's 2001 or something.

So, I got my golf club in the US. I got my new camera in the US. I should be paying the same price here in Canada or a bit more.. but hell not 40-50% more!

I tried to order some music stuff from zzsounds.com and he told me that they don't ship to Canada. So I asked for fun 'how much people call from Canada?' he's like 'a lot. about 10 calls a day'.

THis kind of sending money OUT of the country is very detremental to our economy. The only way to stop this is for the stores to LOWER PRICES and keep these dollars in Canada.

But Canadians don't understand the word 'competition' or 'do what's right for the customer'.

The Canadian culture is very much like Russias: 'Let me see how I can get one over on ya and screw ya'

The latter is our famous 'self hatred'.

[geoffrey]

The Canadian culture is very much like Russias: 'Let me see how I can get one over on ya and screw ya'

The latter is our famous 'self hatred'.

Then your already taking the first steps to remedy the situation. Don't buy goods from companies that 'screw' you. Eventually they will have to comply with reasonably competitive prices or they will be out of business.

(Mostly) free trade between the US and Canada has alot bigger implications since the internet has become a powerful purchasing medium. Like you said, you and I can go onto Ebay and buy products in US dollars, avoiding any markup by Canadian distributors of goods. When the goods come across the border, all you pay is GST and sometimes tariffs on some goods (the distributor will pay the same).

It has put you on a level playing field with Canadian companies. You now have the power to avoid them and purchase directly from the US.

So do so. I encourage it. I've been doing it myself. And eventually, if enough people do so, Canadian companies will lower their prices to reflect the current exchange rate.

[Higgly]

I can't believe that Flaherty has enough credibility left to be quote-worthy. The man's an idiot. An improvement from his days as the Ontario Finance Minister when he was a liar and a fraud - on the mega-million scale that Conrad Black is a liar and a fraud. The difference is of course that when a US businessman lies on corporate reports, he gets sent up the river. When an Ontario finance minister lies on the budget, he gets promoted to the federal Ministry of Finance.

[geoffrey]

I agree with you Higgly. He was put in the spot because he's from Ontario, makes Harper look good to possible conservative voters in Ontario. The sad thing is, even Ontario conservatives don't have alot of respect for him for the damage he did to their party.

There are far more competent men for the position. Flaherty has been a failure, and should be shuffled. However, Harper incorrectly believes Canada likes Flaherty's policies. So he'll stick around. Again.

[Higgly]

Thanks geoffrey. My theory is that Flaherty is being "handled" by the wonks in Finance. I have believed for some time that all of the Finance Minsters end up like that. I think that John McCalum might be able to stand his ground against these guys, because he is the only one to come along in a long time who understands how they think and can fight them with their own fire. Not saying this because he is Liberal. I would believe this no matter what party he worked for, although I don't see him ever working for Jack Layton or the Greens.

Aside from McCallum, I don't see a lot of MPs who could go toe to toe with these guys.

[geoffrey]

McCalum (VP, Cheif Economist, RBC)?? Maybe. He's got the business credentials, but he doesn't seem like a leader to me... perhaps. But Bernier (VP of Standard Life and a private consultant on the financial regulatory environment) most definitely has the credentials and despite his struggles in English (less so than Dion), has written extensively on facing the problems of the current Canadian economy. He is the ideal policy setter leading us forward to a more productive economy.

Either way, I'd like to see a Finance minister with some experience in Finance outside of government. Governmental people rarely know a thing about the realities of business. Flaherty was a lawyer pre-government, and not even in corporate law. What does he know about setting policy that benefits business across Canada?

Flaherty is in over his head and he compensates by making these feel good, useless statements. He's a huge liability to this government's crediability.

At the end of the day, I feel like no government is willing to take the steps to improve our economy. Let's face it, eliminate Alberta and it's oil (accounts for 25% of the per capita GDP of Canada) and Canada drops from 9th in GDP per capita to about 28,000/capita on a PPP basis (I used wikipedia for quick facts, I'll look up better ones if you insist), below the EU average at 26th in the World. Eeww. Canada is a mess, it's dying. And Flaherty doesn't have the knowledge or experience to set policies to begin to turn the sinking ship around.

Edited August 6, 2007 by geoffrey

[Riverwind]

Let's face it, eliminate Alberta and it's oil (accounts for 25% of the per capita GDP of Canada) and Canada drops from 9th in GDP per capita

That is a rediculous argument because it presumes that productive capacity dedicated to exploiting the oil patch would not be used in some other venture. Canada without the oil patch would be poorer because few enterprises deliver the same ROI as pumping black gold from the ground, however, you cannot estimate how much poorer by simply subtracting the GDP contribution of oil.

[jdobbin]

McCalum (VP, Cheif Economist, RBC)?? Maybe. He's got the business credentials, but he doesn't seem like a leader to me... perhaps. But Bernier (VP of Standard Life and a private consultant on the financial regulatory environment) most definitely has the credentials and despite his struggles in English (less so than Dion), has written extensively on facing the problems of the current Canadian economy. He is the ideal policy setter leading us forward to a more productive economy.

McCallum has a poor knowledge outside of finance. He also has extensive writings on the economy but he is prone to gaffes and sexist remarks. Lately, he seems to be doing better but I think Ralph Goodale is a better choice. Goodale was voted best MP by Maclean's magazine in 2006.

I have no problem with Bernier moving to finance if he keeps a lid on spending.

[geoffrey]

That is a rediculous argument because it presumes that productive capacity dedicated to exploiting the oil patch would not be used in some other venture. Canada without the oil patch would be poorer because few enterprises deliver the same ROI as pumping black gold from the ground, however, you cannot estimate how much poorer by simply subtracting the GDP contribution of oil.

It's based on the overall GDP contribution of Alberta. In other words, I'm saying that's what the cost would be if Alberta left confederation tomorrow. It's not fair to include Alberta in the figures because their economic model is so absolutely different than the rest of Canada's. We have to suffer poor Federal policy, but we haven't seen the same on the provincial scale.

In fact, Alberta's oil isn't neccessarily taking production capacity away from the rest of the country, it's actually reducing social welfare issues in the Maritimes and the one's Ontario would be facing if Alberta wasn't there to pick up the slack.

Here, read up on this: http://www.finance.gov.ab.ca/publications/...2007/abadv.html

It's the basis of many of my arguments on this. Canada needs to adopt Alberta style economics. We still have public health care. We still have higher per-capita spending in health, education and social services. I'm not saying Canada has to adopt US style economics to suceed... in fact, any study will say the opposite.

But Flaherty's message here is comparable to the overall anti-business, anti-economy view of most Canadians. Until Canada takes Alberta's led on aggressively attracting investment, slashing taxes and opening up markets, it will continue to sink further and further behind the progressive economies of the world. Not only that, but it will continue to hold us back out West.

[bk59]

Here is the story. Link

Canadians aren't fully benefitting from the potential advantages of the strong dollar.

These business friends of the Liberals need to realize that we now have a Government that won't give them a free ride in screwing the Canadian consumer.

The Minister of Finance has made a very valid point. If big business wants to work with the Government then they should do the right thing.

Any business that sets its prices based on the (fluctuating) value of the Canadian dollar versus other currencies would be in a lot of trouble. The government does have a legitimate concern in wanting to make sure that more Canadians spend their money within Canada. But this seems to be a particularly stupid way of voicing that concern. When companies realize they aren't making the profit that they want because people are buying the same products from somewhere else for less money, then, and only then, will they want to lower those prices. Why? Because if they are making the profit they want, why would they change what they are doing? And any person that needs the Minister of Finance to tell them to shop around for the lowest price is an idiot. Full stop.

Bottom line: this is not a valid point. It's government blundering into an area that it does not need to be in and has historically been very bad at manipulating. And what was with the shot at the Liberals? Does everything have to be partisan here?

[Wilber]

Hard to tell with auto prices at times because of the different base trim levels offered on both sides of the border but on the factory websites the price of a Chrysler 300 SRT 8 in Canada when converted to USD is 49K. On the US site it is 43.3K. Big difference for a car that is assembled in Canada. I checked some of the import sites and found similar differences in pricing. I think that in general, Canadians are getting ripped on vehicles compared to Americans. If prices really were comparable on both sides of the border there would be no reason to do such things as refuse warranty to discourage cross border shopping.

Government can't really do dick about it other than making the public more aware which isn't a bad thing as far as I'm concerned. Cross border shopping around here is back to late 80's levels and perhaps the only thing that can change things is Canadian retailers putting pressure on their suppliers so that they can remain competitive.

Personally I would rather shop local but I'm not so affluent that I can afford to pay up to 50% more. Books are a good example. Except for those that aren't available in the US, I buy few books in Canada any more. Sometimes the differences are so great that I can still save a lot of money by having stuff UPS or FedExed to a handler in Sumas WA, picking it up and paying Canadian taxes at the border. Often on Canadian made products.

Edited August 7, 2007 by Wilber

[mikedavid00]

Then your already taking the first steps to remedy the situation. Don't buy goods from companies that 'screw' you. Eventually they will have to comply with reasonably competitive prices or they will be out of business.

Sorry. You are missing the whole concept.

The consumer is king. We create demand, the vendor creates the supply.

Demand creates supply.

The saying 'supply and demand' may lead you to think otherwise. In actuality, the demand will create a supply.

The supply that is created is the talent of the vendors and suppliers. Demand can be great for things in India for instance. However, the mindset to 'do good for the consumer' is obviously lacking. Suppliers only want to keep the usual ball rolling. So no supply gets created despite a demand. Also the infrastructure to measure supply is also lacking so everyone over there continually chase their tail and that's why they are poor countries.

This is a mindset oriented fact that applies to different *countries*. A country may or may not be more reactive to the laws of supply and demand. The Koreans and Brits are very reactive for instance. And of course, the Americans the most reactive.

In Canada, word around the dinner table and office says that the dollar value is almost the same. People know this. People also know that our prices should be reduced becuase we get most of these items from the US. But for the most part, it isn't happenning. I just made 2 more purchases off ebay yesterday because the prices here were too high here. This is the fault of suppliers and vendors.

Canadians have a demand, the mindset of vendors here in Canada is NOT to supply demand.

There is a demand of pharmiculticals in the US by seniors. Thus, there are many miracal heart medications and new pharmicuticals coming out quartely. Seriors here have the same demand, but Canadian supply almost NEVER gets created. No medical research, no nothing. Because it's in the Canadian mindset to be self hating. We must try to rip each other off and see to it that our neighbour fails and becomes misserable like ourself.

It's a mindset that probably most here know nothing about. SOmething you have to be a born, raised American to uderstand. The income trusts were a lie that Americans simply could never fathom their elected officials doing. However, us, we just excepect it and congradulate him on top of this.

There is a girl who gave her 2 weeks notice here at work. Her last day is on Fri. She's taking a paid day to work from home today. If I complain to a manager somehwere that she shouldn't be paid and what she is doing is disrespectful, they will dissagree with me, and say that it's 'good for her' that she's screwing over our little Canadian company. It's an inbred self hatered Canadians carry.

So when consumers here have demand for lower prices, there is no supply. We still have 2001 pricing and 40% markups. The result is Canadians shopping over the border.

The onus is not on ME to fulful my demand, it's up to the supplier to fulfill my demand. And in Canada these sorts of things don't happen.

So do so. I encourage it. I've been doing it myself. And eventually, if enough people do so, Canadian companies will lower their prices to reflect the current exchange rate.

It's NOT a good thing to shop over the border. If eveyrone did this, we would no longer have a 1rst world country.

We need to change our mindsets and stop being self hating. Our vendors need to support our consumers and LOWER PRICES.

Everytime an immigrant walsed out confused out of our air port stinking like armpits and then making their way into our hospitals, Canadians just love it. It's like slapping our faces.

Each immigrant wanders out of the airport, it's a slap accross Canadas face. AND WE LOVE IT!

[runningdog]

OK Geoff, let's say we adopt your suggestion.

All corporate taxes are gone tomorrow. What tax increases should the Government incorporate to make up for the lost revenue? Or how much in cuts should be made to government expenditures? Where would those cuts be made?

tax corporate profits. leave the "fruits of ones' labour" alone. Working almost half of the year for the gov't is ridiculous.

[geoffrey]

Demand creates supply.

Supply can also create demand, but this is another topic. Just a hint, look lineups when someone cries "gasoline shortage."

Canadians have a demand, the mindset of vendors here in Canada is NOT to supply demand.

Then don't buy from them. There is a market solution to your market problem. Why you praise free markets like the US and then say the government must intervene to prevent gouging is ridiculous. Use Ebay.

Because it's in the Canadian mindset to be self hating.

It seems, out of all the posters here (even Leafless), you hate the way of life in Canada more than anyone else. So why go preach this nonsense.

The income trusts were a lie that Americans simply could never fathom their elected officials doing.

I know, American elected officials have never ever lied. Nixon, Clinton and Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld were all figments of our imaginations.

There is a girl who gave her 2 weeks notice here at work. Her last day is on Fri. She's taking a paid day to work from home today. If I complain to a manager somehwere that she shouldn't be paid and what she is doing is disrespectful, they will dissagree with me, and say that it's 'good for her' that she's screwing over our little Canadian company. It's an inbred self hatered Canadians carry.

There is a parable in the Bible that talks of not worrying so much about other's, but instead, rather worry about how fairly your treated. You hate the Canadian way of life. But criticise others for enjoying the privledges that come with. I'm working from home this afternoon, and I'll actually get a fair bit done. I'll be reading up on some new rules and guidelines of my flight to Toronto tomorrow, day one of my vacation. Just because your not at home, doesn't mean your being treated unfairly. Why are you posting at work anyways? Your using up your poor little Canadian company's valuable bandwidth.

So when consumers here have demand for lower prices, there is no supply. We still have 2001 pricing and 40% markups. The result is Canadians shopping over the border.

Good, eventually Canadian companies will have to react and change prices or they will be forced out of the market.

The onus is not on ME to fulful my demand, it's up to the supplier to fulfill my demand. And in Canada these sorts of things don't happen.

It's NOT a good thing to shop over the border. If eveyrone did this, we would no longer have a 1rst world country.

Everytime an immigrant walsed out confused out of our air port stinking like armpits and then making their way into our hospitals, Canadians just love it. It's like slapping our faces.

What the hell does this have to do with the topic? We already know you hate all immigrants and everyone that doesn't agree with your backwoods attitude towards Canadian culture. We don't need to hear more of it.

[mcqueen625]

Shop around? How is that possible when these multinational corporation are able to charge whatever they want for goods even though the prices being charged in no way represents the cheap labour costs they are able to obtain by having the products manufactured in sweat-shop in China and other 3rd world countries?

Unless and until our federal government imposes profit restrictions on these goods, we will continue to be disadvantaged at the check-out counter. I don't see any government imposing restrictions on these multinational corpoarte bums. Their only concern is maximizing profits for their shareholders. Until both Canadians and Americans stop buying this third-world trash, and instead purchase only good manufactured in North America we will be stuck with these inflated prices for inferior products.

Yet another interventionist policy from our centrally planned friends at the CPC.

Let business set their own prices. This has to be the most political, ridiculous and destructive announcement I have ever heard from Flaherty, next to the Income Trusts of course.

He's incompetent and must be removed from his position before he does further damage.

Well I'll be damned. Consumers should shop around! Thanks Jim!

--

When the dollar advantage was for our exporters, the Americans weren't calling for Canadians to immediately lower prices to reflect that or for American companies to pass on the savings. The Canadian government didn't ask us to stop 'gauging' the poor little Americans.

--

This government is in trouble if it resorts to such ridiculous speeches to gain public support. How about something innovative to improve Canadians piss poor productivity Jimmy-boy instead of pandering to the clueless??

[Michael Bluth]

Good, eventually Canadian companies will have to react and change prices or they will be forced out of the market.

It's NOT a good thing to shop over the border. If eveyrone did this, we would no longer have a 1rst world country.

That's why it is a good thing the Finance Minister called on companies to pass on their savings to consumers.

It is Flaherty's role to ensure we maintain our economic stature in the world.

His encouragement is merely a friendly reminder that if Canadian companies continue to reap these extraordinary profits it will hurt the economy.

[geoffrey]

His encouragement is merely a friendly reminder that if Canadian companies continue to reap these extraordinary profits it will hurt the economy.

Flaherty wants to help the common man? Flaherty wants to be a good Irish boy? Flaherty wants to be reelected, wants his party to win? Here, I propose to you a winning measure in the UK, something you can take to your CPC breathren.

Legalise the damned pint size to be a proper pint. In Canada, most bars serve a 'pint' in a 17.8oz. glass, not a full 20oz. glass. According to this: http://www.pist.ca/article.php/21pf, Canadians are gouged out of millions of dollars in beer due to the missing 2.2oz..

In recent years, British consumers were estimated to be losing as much as 1 million ($2.4 million CAD) every day on short pints before they brought in the Fair Measures Act, which recognized a full pint. Tony Blair, in his bid for Prime Minister, promised British consumers the Fair Measures Act as part of his platform.

There, go be a consumer advocate on something the government does have authority to speak on, especially an Irishman. Regulate the pint! (The two pubs I 'frequent' do serve 20oz. pints, if I order a Kilkenny for example, it says right on it, 'this is a 20oz. pint.') Boston Pizza, for example, on the other hand does not serve 20oz. pints.

How can a consumer compare?