Things I'm tired of

[Guest American Woman]

Bush will probably go down to history alongside Lincoln and Roosevelt when serious historians, who actually know what they're talking about, and who don't have Bush Derangement Syndrome, review his presidency.

Another thing I'm tired of:

Posts/accusations about Bush Derangement Syndrome when there's nothing relevent to say to refute the facts. Nothing says "I've got nothing of relevance to say" more than a canned over-used response like that. Give me a break. Come up with a new one y'all can jump on the bandwagon and (over)use.

[Moxie]

The apparent lack of intelligence and knowledge of American Politican and many of her people regarding Canada, if ignorance is bliss half the US is blowing bubbles out their ears. Comparing Bush to Clinton, isn't possible really one had his brains in his penis the other is still looking for his grey matter.

[bush_cheney2004]

Bush will probably go down to history alongside Lincoln and Roosevelt when serious historians, who actually know what they're talking about, and who don't have Bush Derangement Syndrome, review his presidency.

I doubt he will rank that "high", but the analysis by qualified historians has already begun. President Bush currently ranks in the middle of the pack because of two terms, economic recovery, so called war on terror, and nuclear weapons proliferation. The invasion of Iraq could go either way depending on the long term impact for the region. Deficit spending will be a negative, but it is not only Bush's responsubility. In fact, the US Congress has far lower approval ratings.

I agree that historians will elevate his ranking long after BDS is over. Detractors said the same things about President Reagan. It is worth noting that more Americans were killed or imprisoned during either Lincoln or Roosevelt administrations.

Edited October 7, 2007 by bush_cheney2004

[Guest American Woman]

Again with the BDS.

In early 2004, an informal survey of 415 historians conducted by the nonpartisan History News Network found that eighty-one percent considered the Bush administration a "failure." Among those who called Bush a success, many gave the president high marks only for his ability to mobilize public support and get Congress to go along with what one historian called the administration's "pursuit of disastrous policies." In fact, roughly one in ten of those who called Bush a success was being facetious, rating him only as the best president since Bill Clinton -- a category in which Bush is the only contestant.

...nearly three-fourths of those who gave Bush a negative rating -- reached back before Nixon to find a president they considered as miserable as Bush. The presidents most commonly linked with Bush included Hoover, Andrew Johnson and Buchanan. Twelve percent of the historians polled -- nearly as many as those who rated Bush a success -- flatly called Bush the worst president in American history. And these figures were gathered before the debacles over Hurricane Katrina, Bush's role in the Valerie Plame leak affair and the deterioration of the situation in Iraq. Were the historians polled today, that figure would certainly be higher.

Good article

[CLRV]

No, these boys are absolutely correct. In a surprisingly short period of time, G.W. Bush's presidency will be seen as a time of peace and prosperity, during which American Liberty grew and flourished under a benevolant, articulate genius who never failed to listen to the Voice of the People.

Never underestimate the Republican spin machine's ability to re-write history. Nor should we discount the "liberal media's" willing complicity in propagating such disinformation without thoughtful analysis and a credulous public who can't remember what happened in the news last week, let alone a few years ago.

Look how they re-did Reagan. They even made NIXON look nice for his eulogy. These liars can murder *any* truth. Believe it.

They got lies so big

They don't make a noise

They tell 'em so well

Like a secret disease

That makes you go numb

With a big ol' lie

And a flag and a pie

And a bomb and a bible

Most folks are just liable

To buy any line

Any place, any time

When the lie's so big

And the fog gets so thick

And the facts disappear

The Republican Trick

Can be played out again

People, please tell me when

We'll be rid of these men?

-- Frank Zappa

[ScottSA]

Why would you rest your opinion on the back of a drop out who took his own kids out of school at age 15? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Zappa#E..._and_influences Bam! Oops, there goes the foot again...

[Guest American Woman]

No, these boys are absolutely correct. In a surprisingly short period of time, G.W. Bush's presidency will be seen as a time of peace and prosperity, during which American Liberty grew and flourished under a benevolant, articulate genius who never failed to listen to the Voice of the People.

Never underestimate the Republican spin machine's ability to re-write history. Nor should we discount the "liberal media's" willing complicity in propagating such disinformation without thoughtful analysis and a credulous public who can't remember what happened in the news last week, let alone a few years ago.

Look how they re-did Reagan. They even made NIXON look nice for his eulogy. These liars can murder *any* truth. Believe it.

I have no doubt they'll be singing his praises at his eulogy. I'm talking about history in the true sense, though. Not what some republicans will spin down the line in our/his lifetime. I'm referring to after the present 'bush can do no wrong' crowd is dead and gone. I don't see history/historians as being kind to him. They won't have any reason/need to defend him/speak highly of him.

Edited October 7, 2007 by American Woman

[DarkAngel_]

ya, not really insulted all that much for being american. i was called a burger stuffer once by a freind from victoria... maybe im just too neutral.

SOMEONE INSULT ME!!!

[bush_cheney2004]

I have no doubt they'll be singing his praises at his eulogy. I'm talking about history in the true sense, though. Not what some republicans will spin down the line in our/his lifetime. I'm referring to after the present 'bush can do no wrong' crowd is dead and gone. I don't see history/historians as being kind to him. They won't have any reason/need to defend him/speak highly of him.

No, it is exactly for these reasons that President Bush's stock will rise in the eyes of historians. Judged in the context and continuity of ALL American domestic and foreign policy, Bush will get credits and lumps, easily leaving behind the fools claiming he is the worst American president of all time.

[DarkAngel_]

No, it is exactly for these reasons that President Bush's stock will rise in the eyes of historians. Judged in the context and continuity of ALL American domestic and foreign policy, Bush will get credits and lumps, easily leaving behind the fools claiming he is the worst American president of all time.

HA! thats claiming profit from what was declared a moral war on terror, is the bloody hand justified, if in it is gold? that my Friend is greed! the succession of slave-politics as an economical constant, corps. getting good deals while others suffer, as well as being manipulated by benifactors and those who fund these agenda's... profits of war, do you see why i say we need a voice to stand against atrocity? even if they are not prevented maybe this political agenda sized bull will go from benefiting corperations and political status, to benefiting the people... and our ever evolving ideology.

what would the world say, if we were asked why?

[bush_cheney2004]

HA! thats claiming profit from what was declared a moral war on terror, is the bloody hand justified, if in it is gold? that my Friend is greed! the succession of slave-politics as an economical constant, corps. getting good deals while others suffer, as well as being manipulated by benifactors and those who fund these agenda's... profits of war, do you see why i say we need a voice to stand against atrocity? even if they are not prevented maybe this political agenda sized bull will go from benefiting corperations and political status, to benefiting the people... and our ever evolving ideology.

what would the world say, if we were asked why?

That's the only thing that is justified. America didn't get where it is by giving a damn what the world would say, and that applies to presidents long before George W. Bush. It's part of the job description.

Even lesser gods like Prime Ministers have been known to go to the "dark side".

Edited October 7, 2007 by bush_cheney2004

[CLRV]

I don't see history/historians as being kind to him. They won't have any reason/need to defend him/speak highly of him.

Historians? You mean those guys in universities and such places, who regard it as a science to conscientiously render the facts for future generations? They are too easily dismissed whenever they stray too far from the Party Line -- as ivory tower intellectuals or effete snobs out of touch with the real world or, worst of all, as LIBERALS poisoning the minds of our nation's youth just as sure as Socrates himself.

No, I'm talking about history as in what people believe happened, not what actually happened. American "history" is filled with what I will kindly refer to as apocrypha, from the beginning (how many Americans still believe George Washington chopped down that cherry tree) to the present day (how many Americans still believe they found WMD in Iraq).

Look at how the rest of the world views WWII -- a horrible catastrophe that took the lives of millions upon millions of people. Look at the size of anti-war rallies in those nations today. Look at how Americans view WWII -- the last "good war" where America saved everyone's ass, took its rightful place as leader of the Free World and accepted 50 years of unprecedented luxury and overconsumption as just tribute. Look how easy it has been to generate poll support for any US military invasion based on any premise. Historians spoke out against the flawed comparison of Saddam Hussein with Adolf Hitler -- a comparison that only the most historically ignorant mind could accept. Look at the success they had in getting those facts across to the American public.

As for Bush, he's done what he was put in power to do as Figurehead of these United States. The wish list is complete. A stacked SCOTUS; reduced interference with government power; obscene tax breaks and further entrenchmen of power for the upper 1%; and an unwinnable war guaranteed to keep the military/industrial complex fed for generations. All he has to do now is play out the side. Little things like a ruined economy, thousands of dead soldiers, enemies on all sides abroad, the loss of the American Dream at home -- these can safely be left for the ineffective Democrats to assume blame.

In short, all that's needed is to bury the bodies. Nobody is better at burying bodies than these evil men. They buried Iran/Contra. They can bury this. Believe it.

[bush_cheney2004]

In short, all that's needed is to bury the bodies. Nobody is better at burying bodies than these evil men. They buried Iran/Contra. They can bury this. Believe it.

Nonsense...we remember Watergate, Iran/Contra, Clinton's impeachment, and all the rest. It's all good...cause that's how America rolls.....whether it's killing the enemy for Empire and Commonwealth, or more importantly, for economic hegemony. And if anyone believes that Canada hasn't done the same, they are fooling themselves far more than any historian.

[jazzer]

Nonsense...we remember Watergate, Iran/Contra, Clinton's impeachment, and all the rest. It's all good...cause that's how America rolls.....whether it's killing the enemy for Empire and Commonwealth, or more importantly, for economic hegemony.

Wow, you're comparing a third-rate buglary, illegal arm sales and a blowjob to the horrors of the Bush administration?

[bush_cheney2004]

Wow, you're comparing a third-rate buglary, illegal arm sales and a blowjob to the horrors of the Bush administration?

No, I'm comparing the "horrors" of the American experience to the Bush administration. All quite normal and in keeping with tradition. President Bush will leave office in January 2009, but he will be followed by another president, who will also be an American. It will not be a Canadian wishing for something different.

[Guest American Woman]

No, I'm comparing the "horrors" of the American experience to the Bush administration. All quite normal and in keeping with tradition. President Bush will leave office in January 2009, but he will be followed by another president, who will also be an American. It will not be a Canadian wishing for something different.

There's nothing "normal" about the Bush Administration and it most certainly isn't "in keeping with tradition." You are right about one thing, though. The next POTUS won't be a Canadian wishing for something different, it will be an American -- wishing for something different.

[bush_cheney2004]

There's nothing "normal" about the Bush Administration and it most certainly isn't "in keeping with tradition." You are right about one thing, though. The next POTUS won't be a Canadian wishing for something different, it will be an American -- wishing for something different.

See "History of American Foreign Policy". Anyone who claims the Bush administration is "abnormal" refuses to acknowledge the obvious for current political gain.

[Guest American Woman]

See "History of American Foreign Policy". Anyone who claims the Bush administration is "abnormal" refuses to acknowledge the obvious for current political gain.

Not everyone thinks what they do for "political gain." For some of us, our concerns go much deeper.

You'll have to excuse me if I don't take history lessons from you regarding what's "normal" for our country because apparently to you a blow job and starting a war, on lies/information/exaggerations no less, is in the same catagory.

Furthermore, anyone who refuses to acknowledge the truth doesn't really care about the truth; only self gain.

[DarkAngel_]

Even lesser gods like Prime Ministers have been known to go to the "dark side".

your very funny, and realistic... i respect that.

but unless the man at the top speaks as one voice as in the people, and until our moral fiber has hit its completeness, (not saying it will not change from that) man WILL be more animal then human... i define my logic and heart by what was passed down to me and that was true loyalty to your kin and neighbor! if he fight against me for no reason just find the best way to sway them... killing begets more killing, births beget more births, and until we find a medium, we will be born to die at the hands of war, and the victors children shall reign, giving rise to rebellion and opposition to that working body.

the way it works now is stunting the humans growth, in mind and technology.

we could be so much more without it

[Guest American Woman]

Historians? You mean those guys in universities and such places, who regard it as a science to conscientiously render the facts for future generations? They are too easily dismissed whenever they stray too far from the Party Line -- as ivory tower intellectuals or effete snobs out of touch with the real world or, worst of all, as LIBERALS poisoning the minds of our nation's youth just as sure as Socrates himself.

No, I'm talking about history as in what people believe happened, not what actually happened. American "history" is filled with what I will kindly refer to as apocrypha, from the beginning (how many Americans still believe George Washington chopped down that cherry tree) to the present day (how many Americans still believe they found WMD in Iraq).

I don't know about other Americans, but I was taught in grade school that the chopping down the cherry tree thing was a 'legend'/parable to illustrate Washington's honesty. I'm not sure if it's even still used today, but I knew as a child that it wasn't true. As for how many believe Iraq had WMD-- I think in history, it will go down that he didn't. I think future generations will realize that, if the majority doesn't by now.

Look at how the rest of the world views WWII -- a horrible catastrophe that took the lives of millions upon millions of people. Look at the size of anti-war rallies in those nations today. Look at how Americans view WWII -- the last "good war" where America saved everyone's ass, took its rightful place as leader of the Free World and accepted 50 years of unprecedented luxury and overconsumption as just tribute. Look how easy it has been to generate poll support for any US military invasion based on any premise. Historians spoke out against the flawed comparison of Saddam Hussein with Adolf Hitler -- a comparison that only the most historically ignorant mind could accept. Look at the success they had in getting those facts across to the American public.

I didn't realize "Americans" did feel that way about WWII, although of course some do. But some don't. And do you not think there are Canadians who feel the same way about Canada's role in that war? But 50 years doesn't really constitute "history" since those involved in the event are still alive. I don't think the younger generation rah rah's about WWII being a "good war." I don't think Americans "accepted unprecedented luxury and overconsumption as just tribute," either. I've sure never thought about WWII in regards to my life, and I don't know anyone born after the war who does. Quite frankly, I've just lived my life, thankful for where I was born, but knowing I'd feel that way about any number of countries. I never thought I was due "unprecedented luxuries," and was always thankful for what I've had.

I don't think getting public support for Iraq means Americans are easily swayed to go to war. I think there was still a lot of shock and saddness over 9-11. That doesn't excuse it, but it doesn't make us easy to support war "on any premise" either.

As for Bush, he's done what he was put in power to do as Figurehead of these United States. The wish list is complete. A stacked SCOTUS; reduced interference with government power; obscene tax breaks and further entrenchmen of power for the upper 1%; and an unwinnable war guaranteed to keep the military/industrial complex fed for generations. All he has to do now is play out the side. Little things like a ruined economy, thousands of dead soldiers, enemies on all sides abroad, the loss of the American Dream at home -- these can safely be left for the ineffective Democrats to assume blame.

In short, all that's needed is to bury the bodies. Nobody is better at burying bodies than these evil men. They buried Iran/Contra. They can bury this. Believe it.

They can't bury it forever, and that's why I think history, in the true sense of the word, won't be kind to the Bush administration. Perhaps history won't be kind to Americans, either. I have to wonder sometimes if we are viewed in such a terrible light by much of the world.

[bush_cheney2004]

Not everyone thinks what they do for "political gain." For some of us, our concerns go much deeper.

You'll have to excuse me if I don't take history lessons from you regarding what's "normal" for our country because apparently to you a blow job and starting a war, on lies/information/exaggerations no less, is in the same catagory.

Furthermore, anyone who refuses to acknowledge the truth doesn't really care about the truth; only self gain.

History doesn't give a damn about your deep concerns....but it does take note of a "blow job" president who lied in federal court under oath and attacked other nations to change the headlines....they even made a movie about it (Wag the Dog). Serbia would learn the same history lesson in 1999.

[bush_cheney2004]

your very funny, and realistic... i respect that.

but unless the man at the top speaks as one voice as in the people, and until our moral fiber has hit its completeness, (not saying it will not change from that) man WILL be more animal then human... i define my logic and heart by what was passed down to me and that was true loyalty to your kin and neighbor! if he fight against me for no reason just find the best way to sway them... killing begets more killing, births beget more births, and until we find a medium, we will be born to die at the hands of war, and the victors children shall reign, giving rise to rebellion and opposition to that working body.

the way it works now is stunting the humans growth, in mind and technology.

we could be so much more without it

Oh please.....whatever nation you hail from, you are no better in life's execution, only far less powerful. The Americans did not invent war, but they may damn well perfect it. Clean up your own act before blaming the Americans.

[Guest American Woman]

Oh please.....whatever nation you hail from, you are no better in life's execution, only far less powerful. The Americans did not invent war, but they may damn well perfect it. Clean up your own act before blaming the Americans.

Ummm. I think DarkAngel is an American.

[bush_cheney2004]

Ummm. I think DarkAngel is an American.

Doesn't matter....message is the same. You are an American too, no?

[ScottSA]

I see BDS is still in full gear.