Are you ready for the "Big One!"

[Fat Freddie]

With the latest report from US Intelligence now suggesting that pre-911 terror organizations are back and ready for action, does that mean Canada will finally get its ass blown up?

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/War_Terror/200...4331750-ap.html

I hate no one, but I most recently I was in Thailand on business. During that visit I came face to face with a huge Muslim population in the deep southern provinces, complete with Burka wearing women, with the men running around talking about how it was right to kill Christians and Non- Believers.

When I got back to Canada, I began looking around and thinking what the threat was here in Canada and if some of the locals here might want to remove some of us from their neighbourhood. We know from RCMP and CSIS reports that we have terrorists in Canada. The question of the day is, What will your reaction be when the muslim terror groups located here in Canada take action. Will our "melting pot" attitude continue, or will the RCMP be finding dead muslims in the streets when that happy go lucky Canada attitude turns into that first and second world war "Kill them all" attitude.

Feel free to answer truthfully. I know I'll turn into that kind of person that will distroy those that threaten my family. I will defend myself. How will you re-act?

[ScottSA]

With the latest report from US Intelligence now suggesting that pre-911 terror organizations are back and ready for action, does that mean Canada will finally get its ass blown up?

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/War_Terror/200...4331750-ap.html

I hate no one, but I most recently I was in Thailand on business. During that visit I came face to face with a huge Muslim population in the deep southern provinces, complete with Burka wearing women, with the men running around talking about how it was right to kill Christians and Non- Believers.

When I got back to Canada, I began looking around and thinking what the threat was here in Canada and if some of the locals here might want to remove some of us from their neighbourhood. We know from RCMP and CSIS reports that we have terrorists in Canada. The question of the day is, What will your reaction be when the muslim terror groups located here in Canada take action. Will our "melting pot" attitude continue, or will the RCMP be finding dead muslims in the streets when that happy go lucky Canada attitude turns into that first and second world war "Kill them all" attitude.

Feel free to answer truthfully. I know I'll turn into that kind of person that will distroy those that threaten my family. I will defend myself. How will you re-act?

Before it gets to that point the government will be pressured into halting immigration in it's tracks...something it should have done long ago. The attack would have to be huge and the death toll fantastic in order to turn Canadians into pogroming maniacs.

[mikedavid00]

Before it gets to that point the government will be pressured into halting immigration in it's tracks...something it should have done long ago. The attack would have to be huge and the death toll fantastic in order to turn Canadians into pogroming maniacs.

I completely agree.

[Bonam]

Before it gets to that point the government will be pressured into halting immigration in it's tracks...something it should have done long ago.

How can you be so sure of that? It got to that point in Britain ( and other European countries) and we have a culture and government not very different from theirs.

Also, the fact that immigrants from some particular cultures pose a higher risk doesn't mean overall immigration should be halted in its tracks. Immigration from many other areas of the world can be very helpful to Canada.

The attack would have to be huge and the death toll fantastic in order to turn Canadians into pogroming maniacs.

Agreed. I mean even after 9/11, there weren't really any anti-Muslim "pogroms" in the US (far as I know).

[mikedavid00]

Also, the fact that immigrants from some particular cultures pose a higher risk doesn't mean overall immigration should be halted in its tracks. Immigration from many other areas of the world can be very helpful to Canada.

But that is the very viewpoint that gets us in trouble.

Terrorist countries make far, far, too large of the pool of our immigrants that we get.

We do know that they vote Liberal and are in our Parlement right now and taking over ridings such as mine. We also know that they have a far higher than usual unemployment rate. They also have more children than any other religion (heard this from a Muslim in Canada who claimed it was tru, can't confirm officially though). We also know that we have found many terrorist related cells here in Canada.

Besides that, that is all we know about these people coming here to Canada.

I think they are here mostly because they vote for the Liberal Party of Canada and see to it that they are kept in power.

"But Tarek Fatah, a Rae supporter and member of the Muslim Canadian Congress, said appeals to "tribalism" went well beyond the Muslim delegates. He said Kennedy, despite his claim to represent party renewal, was the candidate who benefited most from the support of Muslim, Sikh, Ukrainian and Tamil blocs, who moved en masse to Dion after the second ballot.

"This is a step back," Fatah said in an interview, adding that Kennedy has "taken us back to the '30s and '40s" when Catholics and Protestants voted in blocs.

"It's tainting the political system where policies aren't being discussed but race, ethnicity and religion (are pivotal)."

Toronto MP Navdeep Bains, who is credited with moving 237 Sikh delegates from Kennedy to Dion, said Fatah's complaints are simply "sour grapes."

[ScottSA]

Before it gets to that point the government will be pressured into halting immigration in it's tracks...something it should have done long ago.

How can you be so sure of that? It got to that point in Britain ( and other European countries) and we have a culture and government not very different from theirs.

Because we will have the benefit, fortunately for us and unfortunately for Europe, of watching the crisis unfold a decade ahead of us.

Also, the fact that immigrants from some particular cultures pose a higher risk doesn't mean overall immigration should be halted in its tracks. Immigration from many other areas of the world can be very helpful to Canada.

No it can't be. How? There is simply no way that immigration helps us.

[mikedavid00]

Immigration from many other areas of the world can be very helpful to Canada.

If they are not coming here with an employer who is sponsoring them in, then they aren't helping Canada at all.

This is basic, basic, immigration policy that the rest of the world has except for Canada.

[guyser]

But that is the very viewpoint that gets us in trouble.

Terrorist countries make far, far, too large of the pool of our immigrants that we get.

And what countries would that be?

http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/demo52a.htm

I think they are here mostly because they vote for the Liberal Party of Canada and see to it that they are kept in power.

That doesn't seem to be working now does it?

[mikedavid00]

http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/demo52a.htm

Nice try guyers:

Visible minority population, by province and territory (2001 Census)

(Newfoundland and Labrador, Prince Edward Island, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick)

However, I didn't know that the Easter provinces had a whopping 10% visible minority population in 2001. I would have put it around 3%-5% or so during that time.

I think they are here mostly because they vote for the Liberal Party of Canada and see to it that they are kept in power.

That doesn't seem to be working now does it?

What are you talking about, it was mainly the ethnic voting blocs that kept the Liberals in party status. This is proven and factual. If they weren't here, there would be very few Liberals in the house right now.

Edited July 18, 2007 by mikedavid00

[guyser]

No it can't be. How? There is simply no way that immigration helps us.

Apart from working jobs opening business's , paying taxes , raising future tax payers , enriching this country, spurring on or at least helping our economy, fueling the housing industry.

You have pointed out our current level of home grown babies is lacking, then the only other option is too stagnate.

No thanks. I live where 50% of all immigrants go. I'll take them .

[ScottSA]

No it can't be. How? There is simply no way that immigration helps us.

Apart from working jobs opening business's , paying taxes , raising future tax payers , enriching this country, spurring on or at least helping our economy, fueling the housing industry.

You have pointed out our current level of home grown babies is lacking, then the only other option is too stagnate.

How ridiculous. Why do we have to "grow?" Continuing to fill Canada with immigrants does not help the economy in any way, and simply claiming it does doesn't make it so. Even the hardcore proponents of immigration have for the most part moved on from the extremely questionable economic arguments and are now embracing "diversity" for the sake of it.

[guyser]

Nice try guyers:

Visible minority population, by province and territory (2001 Census)

(Newfoundland and Labrador, Prince Edward Island, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick)

Ahh...mike, the question was " what countries are those?" And you didnt answer it. I know why, but for the rest, care to tell us?

Um, any reason that you purposely omitted Canada in your list with Nfld,PEI, NS and NB? Canada was the first listing on the chart, the one marked "Canada" and had totals.

What are you talking about, it was mainly the ethnic voting blocs that kept the Liberals in party status. This is proven and factual. If they weren't here, there would be very few Liberals in the house right now.

Oh ok, so it is keeping the Liberals in party status ? Ok, I just read it your post as saying "kept in power" as in "in power"

Goalposts go that way---------> now ...or is it that <------------------ way?

[guyser]

How ridiculous. Why do we have to "grow?"

Ridiculous??

Oh my god, you have got to be kidding.You are smarter than that. Surely I dont have to spell out to you why growth is important.

Continuing to fill Canada with immigrants does not help the economy in any way, and simply claiming it does doesn't make it so.

And claiming it doesn't does not make it so either.

Case in point. Alberta needs workers, the economy is flying there. if there is not sufficent numbers going there to work then jobs get stopped. Jobs stopped means money lost, money lost means those that fund these projects (foreigners) spend elsewhere.Add in all the tie-ins and Geoffrey aint drivin no BMW

We all lose.

Money gone means apt bldgs, houses stop being built, business stop producing because trickle down effect is gone.

$30,000 in incediary spending comes with every house sold and closed on the market. Reno's etc fills that $30G.

92,000 homes sold in BC alone in 2006. Do the math

How did your average house price in BC get to be $400, 000 ? How did you manage to make money on your house last year, which is a very safe assumption on my part?

Immigration, thats how.

Edited July 19, 2007 by guyser

[Bonam]

ScottSA, dude, there are tons of benefits to immigration from many areas of the world. We get thousands of highly skilled workers coming in yearly, filling jobs that would otherwise be left unfilled. And of course there are tens of thousands of workers coming in for other jobs that don't require high qualifications. Growth is indeed important, especially in a country like Canada, which has so much room for growth.

Having lived in Vancouver, I know dozens of first or second generation immigrants from China, Japan, Korea, Taiwan, etc, and every one of them is very much integrated into society, with excellent english, and with highly skilled professions (several doctors, several CMAs, research scientists, etc). Our country benefits greatly from the presence of such people. Why would you not want people of this caliber coming here?

Canada, like the US, is a land of immigrants. Our society was built by people that immigrated here, and it can continue to benefit from more people immigrating here. As long as the immigrants that come here are productive, willing and able to accept Canadian culture, etc, then we do indeed benefit very much from their presence.

Now, I do fully understand concerns about immigrants that are unproductive, unwilling to assimilate, or prone to violence, and that is why I think our immigration policy should be changed to be more selective. However, I'm definitely opposed to just shutting down immigration altogether.

Edited July 19, 2007 by Bonam

[betsy]

Case in point. Alberta needs workers, the economy is flying there. if there is not sufficent numbers going there to work then jobs get stopped. Jobs stopped means money lost, money lost means those that fund these projects (foreigners) spend elsewhere.Add in all the tie-ins and Geoffrey aint drivin no BMW

We all lose.

Money gone means apt bldgs, houses stop being built, business stop producing because trickle down effect is gone.

$30,000 in incediary spending comes with every house sold and closed on the market. Reno's etc fills that $30G.

92,000 homes sold in BC alone in 2006. Do the math

How did your average house price in BC get to be $400, 000 ? How did you manage to make money on your house last year, which is a very safe assumption on my part?

Immigration, thats how.

But realistically, immigration is also hurting us. Big time.

How many immigrants end up going back to their country, enjoying our benefits and yet not spending their dollars here, and most probably not paying their taxes here either. An example was the huge numbers of people in Lebanon that we've had to rescue. That was an eye-opener. Judging by the reaction from a lot of Canadians (reactions that even the media did not hesitate to broadcast), that showed it came as a surprise. How many else from other countries?

We want babies...well, they give us babies alright! How many of these babies are literally raised by our society? How many of these babies will become productive, and how many will end up being our additional burden?

And all the Asian gangs, the Latino gangs, the drug peddlers and criminals....why do we have them here?

How did they get in here?

Why are we not being choosy about whom we should accept here?

Edited July 19, 2007 by betsy

[jefferiah]

Two excellent points being made here from either side:

1. Immigrants can be beneficial and productive and are necessary to keep BMWs

2. Gangs and the like....

I don't understand enough about the immigration process to even contribute, but I like reading this thread. So what is the answer? Stop the immigrants, apply stricter laws in order to screen them? Can we find a way to reap the benefits and avoid the pitfalls?

[Moxie]

ScottSA, dude, there are tons of benefits to immigration from many areas of the world. We get thousands of highly skilled workers coming in yearly, filling jobs that would otherwise be left unfilled. And of course there are tens of thousands of workers coming in for other jobs that don't require high qualifications. Growth is indeed important, especially in a country like Canada, which has so much room for growth.

Having lived in Vancouver, I know dozens of first or second generation immigrants from China, Japan, Korea, Taiwan, etc, and every one of them is very much integrated into society, with excellent english, and with highly skilled professions (several doctors, several CMAs, research scientists, etc). Our country benefits greatly from the presence of such people. Why would you not want people of this caliber coming here?

Canada, like the US, is a land of immigrants. Our society was built by people that immigrated here, and it can continue to benefit from more people immigrating here. As long as the immigrants that come here are productive, willing and able to accept Canadian culture, etc, then we do indeed benefit very much from their presence.

Now, I do fully understand concerns about immigrants that are unproductive, unwilling to assimilate, or prone to violence, and that is why I think our immigration policy should be changed to be more selective. However, I'm definitely opposed to just shutting down immigration altogether.

I agree, but Immigration Canada is so lacking in their ability to do their job that it's not funny anymore.

Did you know that it was taking CSIS two years plus to do security checks on new recruits to the Military can you image the wait time for new immigrants?

Where I live we've had a program in place for twenty years, it's not immigration per say it's work visas. We needed seasonal workers to pick crops so the local farmers went to Jamaica found a willing work force worked out a deal with the powers that be and for the past twenty years workers have been coming and picking the crops for four or fives months a year. We are now employing their children who save and become University Students in the area. They pay taxes, add to the economy and have become long term valued seasonal workers. They love the freedom of working here and going to their "Much Loved homeland" with enough money to support their families. In twenty years we had ONE commit a crime. ONE. Sadly they face alot of discrimination from the rednecks who blame them for their sons lack of employment. The truth is these youth are to freaking lazy to work for ten dollars an hours so they go on welfare and sell drugs for spare cash. It's the immigrants on worker's visa that's adding to this community not the local youth. Many workers who work in NFL and Alberta work six weeks on six off, seasonal workers could be a viable option for the lack of workers? Let Immigration Canada dither it's way through the process and start allowing Employers to hire qualified people with work visas? Yes no?

[betsy]

Two excellent points being made here from either side:

1. Immigrants can be beneficial and productive and are necessary to keep BMWs

2. Gangs and the like....

I don't understand enough about the immigration process to even contribute, but I like reading this thread. So what is the answer? Stop the immigrants, apply stricter laws in order to screen them? Can we find a way to reap the benefits and avoid the pitfalls?

We should have stricter screening process. A detailed information about our expectations must be provided to applicants, including that of adapting to our way of life.

Education and/or skills are a must. Anyone with criminal convictions must be rejected. The numbers of years required to be eligible for citizenship should be increased.

There should be a procedure for immigration employees to discourage any attempts at corruption.

And the immigration officers should have a watchdog....just to make sure there are no corruptions going on.

[jefferiah]

reading alot of posts you make betsy, i often think, i would vote for her

[guyser]

But realistically, immigration is also hurting us. Big time.

Are they? How?

I am not naive enough to think each and every one that comes in to Canada does well, or stay out of trouble. So tell me how?

How many immigrants end up going back to their country, enjoying our benefits and yet not spending their dollars here, and most probably not paying their taxes here either.

Taxed at source , and if they do not file, then RevCan can go after them. PLenty of natural born CDN's have not filed or work the underground economy. Do you hold the same wrath for them?

An example was the huge numbers of people in Lebanon that we've had to rescue. That was an eye-opener. Judging by the reaction from a lot of Canadians (reactions that even the media did not hesitate to broadcast), that showed it came as a surprise. How many else from other countries?

Well they lived and worked in Lebanon. They paid their taxes there one would suppose. They did not nor could they access CDN healthcare since they are out of CDA for more than 180 days, and thus they cannot access welfare or many other social programmes.

Cant see how that hurt. (apart from the moronic idea to rescue them)

We want babies...well, they give us babies alright! How many of these babies are literally raised by our society? How many of these babies will become productive, and how many will end up being our additional burden?

About the same as yours did, or any other Canadian babies.

And all the Asian gangs, the Latino gangs, the drug peddlers and criminals....why do we have them here?

How did they get in here?

Who says they are not naturalized Canucks? They all have elements of Canada in them, so whats the problem?

Why are we not being choosy about whom we should accept here?

For the most part I agree. But we can only pick from those that want to come. We should advertise better, have perhaps stricter requirements, more control on where they live etc.

And tell them not to read MLW if they want a balanced view of Canada.

[betsy]

reading alot of posts you make betsy, i often think, i would vote for her

I like your views too. We should form our own party together.

[guyser]

We should have stricter screening process. A detailed information about our expectations must be provided to applicants, including that of adapting to our way of life.

Education and/or skills are a must. Anyone with criminal convictions must be rejected. The numbers of years required to be eligible for citizenship should be increased.

There should be a procedure for immigration employees to discourage any attempts at corruption.

And the immigration officers should have a watchdog....just to make sure there are no corruptions going on.

Stricter screening I agree.

Education, half of the immigrants that come have degrees.Criminals are rejected unless circumstances dictate otherwise.

[mikedavid00]

ScottSA, dude, there are tons of benefits to immigration from many areas of the world. We get thousands of highly skilled workers coming in yearly, filling jobs that would otherwise be left unfilled.

Lol..

You and Guyser went into areas that take a lot of time, cites, and effort to prove you guys wrong. This is why I have a condenser mic on order and will be hosting a podcast on the subject with a guest.

You are applying 'simple logic' to everything but haven't taken time to research the nuts and bolts of the situation in Alberta. Neither has most of the media.

[mikedavid00]

An example was the huge numbers of people in Lebanon that we've had to rescue. That was an eye-opener.

And then remember when all the media asked for a total number of all people living outside Canada and the gov't said there was no way to tell?

Lol.. So they can tell us how much are in little Lebanon, but can't tell us how many in total are abroad? I feel we have the right to know they shouldn't cover up the number. I'm sure it would be a major eye opener. Anyone who has been out of Canada for 3 years holding duel citizenship should have their citizenship revoked and need to re-apply.

Nah, they shouldn't be able to re-apply. We simply don't need them here.

[capricorn]

I like Holland's idea of showing videos of nude beaches to prospective immigrants by embassies and consulates before a prospective immigrant makes it into that country. The message being: "If you don't want to see bare breasts in public areas, don't come here." Why can't we show videos of ordinary life in Canada in our embassies to individuals who want to come here. I would start by showing them a video of the 1998 eastern Ontario and western Quebec ice storm. If you don't like ice, snow and cold weather, don't come here.

Second point, the world population growth is said to be a major contributor to global warming, right?

For most of the two million years of human history, the population was less than a quarter of a million. The advent of agriculture led to a sustained increase, but it took thousands of years, until 1800, before the planet was host to a billion humans. Since then growth has accelerated - we hit 2 billion in 1930, 3 billion in 1960, 4 billion in 1975, 5 billion in 1987 and 6 billion in 1999. Today's grand total is estimated to be 6.5 billion, with a growth rate of 80 million each year.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/features...icle2715156.ece

The vast majority of Canadians live near the US border. Immigrants do not want to move into northern regions. That's why they gravitate toward Vancouver, Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal....you get the point. So even if we wanted to populate northern regions through immigration, it ain't gonna happen. By curbing immigration and relying more on population from our citizens, would we not be doing our part to defer the (supposed) apocalypse of global warming?

I know the theory. A larger population offers opportunities for growth, etc. etc., and immigration increases the possibility of growth. But was is happening is that too many of these immigrants end up drawing on our health and welfare resources.

Yes, our population growth is low. I would rather we provide Canadians with real incentives to increase the birth rate than to rely extensively on immigration.