Decima Poll: Most Cdns see God in creation process

[ScottSA]

You are a theistic evolutionist.....hated by the creationists

Trust me.......

Morris, for example, devotes the last 20% of his book Scientific Creationism to attacks on other forms of creationism (Morris 1985).

On the basis of one creationist who attacks "other forms of creationism" you label me a non-creationist, even though the sentence you use as evidence quite explicitely says precisely the opposite? Good one.

Theistic Evolution

Theistic Evolution says that God creates through evolution. Theistic Evolutionists vary in beliefs about how much God intervenes in the process. It accepts most or all of modern science, but it invokes God for some things outside the realm of science, such as the creation of the human soul. This position is promoted by the Pope and taught at mainline Protestant seminaries.

Now, are you going to argue that the Pope is not a creationist?

[jbg]

The Canadian Press-Decima Research survey suggests that 60 per cent of Canadians believe God had either a direct or indirect role in creating mankind, shattering the myth that Canadians had long ago put their faith strictly behind the scientific explanation for creation.

It makes no sense to lump people who accept evolution science with a god caveat with people that completely deny the evidence for evolution. The 'Bubbas' you speak of are the latter group - only 26% of Canadians fell into that category. OTOH - 47% of Americans fall into the 'Bubba' category.

Why an attempt to paint Americans as ignoramuses?

[Riverwind]

OTOH - 47% of Americans fall into the 'Bubba' category.

Why an attempt to paint Americans as ignoramuses?

The term 'Bubba' was BC's word not mine. I was simply arguing with BC's use of the word.

[bush_cheney2004]

Why an attempt to paint Americans as ignoramuses?

Because this is how some Canadians define themselves (as superior)....the Americans are the only foil they have ever known.

[jbg]

OTOH - 47% of Americans fall into the 'Bubba' category.

Why an attempt to paint Americans as ignoramuses?

The term 'Bubba' was BC's word not mine. I was simply arguing with BC's use of the word.

Your post was Post #2. Hers was #1, and the word "bubba" is not there.

[Riverwind]

Your post was Post #2. Hers was #1, and the word "bubba" is not there.

The subtitle of the thread is "Northern Bubbas Rule!".

[WestViking]

The Canadian Press-Decima Research survey suggests that 60 per cent of Canadians believe God had either a direct or indirect role in creating mankind, shattering the myth that Canadians had long ago put their faith strictly behind the scientific explanation for creation.

It makes no sense to lump people who accept evolution science with a god caveat with people that completely deny the evidence for evolution. The 'Bubbas' you speak of are the latter group - only 26% of Canadians fell into that category. OTOH - 47% of Americans fall into the 'Bubba' category.

Offhanded disparagement of those who hold different views is not valid argument or debate. Mindlessly demeaning people for their beliefs is despicable.

[jbg]

Your post was Post #2. Hers was #1, and the word "bubba" is not there.

The subtitle of the thread is "Northern Bubbas Rule!".

Oops.

The Canadian Press-Decima Research survey suggests that 60 per cent of Canadians believe God had either a direct or indirect role in creating mankind, shattering the myth that Canadians had long ago put their faith strictly behind the scientific explanation for creation.

It makes no sense to lump people who accept evolution science with a god caveat with people that completely deny the evidence for evolution. The 'Bubbas' you speak of are the latter group - only 26% of Canadians fell into that category. OTOH - 47% of Americans fall into the 'Bubba' category.

Offhanded disparagement of those who hold different views is not valid argument or debate. Mindlessly demeaning people for their beliefs is despicable.

Despite my missing of the subtitle of the thread, WestViking, you're right. Anti-Americanism is not a substitute for debate. We are not a country of ignorant people.

[Riverwind]

Despite my missing of the subtitle of the thread, WestViking, you're right. Anti-Americanism is not a substitute for debate. We are not a country of ignorant people.

Take it up with BC - he was the who framed the discussion by making the statement: 'Canadians are just as ignorant as Americans' (sic). I was simply responding to his assertion using the same tone he used.

[jbg]

Despite my missing of the subtitle of the thread, WestViking, you're right. Anti-Americanism is not a substitute for debate. We are not a country of ignorant people.

Take it up with BC - he was the who framed the discussion by making the statement: 'Canadians are just as ignorant as Americans' (sic). I was simply responding to his assertion.

I will take it up with anyone who considers 47% of Americans to be "bubbas". Even in the rural areas many "sophisticated elites" look down on, there are a heck of a lot of very smart people.

When I went away to college, I thought the same as many "sophisticated elites" do, and was often outgunned intellectually by people I had once thought of as "hicks". I know better now.

[Riverwind]

I will take it up with anyone who considers 47% of Americans to be "bubbas". Even in the rural areas many "sophisticated elites" look down on, there are a heck of a lot of very smart people.

I will state my point explictly: I do not believe that 47% of americans are 'Bubbas'. I was responding to an argument presented by BC using terms he introduced. If you look at my post you would see I put the word 'Bubbas' in quotes to indicate I was using the word in the context BC created.

I apologize if I offended you.

[bush_cheney2004]

Your post was Post #2. Hers was #1, and the word "bubba" is not there.

I think he is referring to the thread's subtitle..."Northern Bubbas Rule".

[bush_cheney2004]

Take it up with BC - he was the who framed the discussion by making the statement: 'Canadians are just as ignorant as Americans' (sic). I was simply responding to his assertion using the same tone he used.

Nonsense...I wrote no such thing wrt "ignorance"....you have a problem with Canadians or Americans who have different belief system from your favored "strict evolutionist". That a majority of Canadians believe in a deity role is anathema to an assumed (and false) sense of superiority, and this was the main point of the story. Canadians (or Americans) are not ignorant for their differing belief systems.

[Mad_Michael]

I will take it up with anyone who considers 47% of Americans to be "bubbas". Even in the rural areas many "sophisticated elites" look down on, there are a heck of a lot of very smart people.

Agreed.

It is quite obvious that the thread-started does not understand the real meaning of the term 'Bubba'. One cannot take Christian creationism as the core definition of a 'Bubba' - that is categorically absurd.

[bush_cheney2004]

It is quite obvious that the thread-started does not understand the real meaning of the term 'Bubba'. One cannot take Christian creationism as the core definition of a 'Bubba' - that is categorically absurd.

And delightfully provocative...it would seem that the word "Bubba" being used to describe Canadians in the same way that some Canadians refer to Americans (and their belief systems) is very alarming.

[AngusThermopyle]

What exactly is a "Bubba"?

If you don't mind me asking.

[bush_cheney2004]

What exactly is a "Bubba"?

If you don't mind me asking.

No problem...."Bubba" defined:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bubba

For this thread, I used "Bubba" purposely to highlight and counter the pejorative usage by some Canadians when referring to Americans who believe in any form of deity role for "creation".

[Riverwind]

For this thread, I used "Bubba" purposely to highlight and counter the pejorative usage by some Canadians when referring to Americans who believe in any form of deity role for "creation".

Can you provide any evidence that 'some Canadians' would use a perjorative term like 'Bubba' to describe Americans who believe in any form of deity role for "creation"? I know you can't produce such evidence because there is none - it is a fiction you created.

[bush_cheney2004]

Can you provide any evidence that 'some Canadians' would use a perjorative term like 'Bubba' to describe Americans who believe in any form of deity role for "creation"? I know you can't produce such evidence because there is none - it is a fiction you created.

Yes..starting with your own posts and assuming you are Canadian:

Riverwind posted:

It makes no sense to lump people who accept evolution science with a god caveat with people that completely deny the evidence for evolution. The 'Bubbas' you speak of are the latter group - only 26% of Canadians fell into that category. OTOH - 47% of Americans fall into the 'Bubba' category.

American "Bubbas" are the people who believe that God created the earth 10000 years ago. Your poll simply re-enforces the point that a majority of Canadians reject that view.

I assume that is not a term that you would use yourself and that you are implying that others would decribe all non-atheists as uneducated hicks (i.e. Bubbas). This is not the case, the derision that you hear in the media is directed only at the evolution deniers.

If you wish to debunk a stereotype then you actually need to learn why the stereotype exists. In this case, the "Bubbas" stereotype would not exist if only 26% of Americans denied evolution and the rest subscribed to some other form of creationism. The stereotype exists because nearly 50% of Americans deny evolution.

Gee...that was easy.

[Riverwind]

Yes..starting with your own posts and assuming you are Canadian:

Where did I say that the term 'Bubba' could be used to describe Americans who believe in any form of deity role for "creation"?

You started with a premise that made no sense. I did my best to make sense of your rediculous premise using the words that you introduced.

[bush_cheney2004]

Yes..starting with your own posts and assuming you are Canadian:

Where did I say that the term 'Bubba' could be used to describe Americans who believe in any form of deity role for "creation"?

You started with a premise that made no sense. I did my best to make sense of your rediculous premise using the words that you introduced.

No, you attempted to specifically and purposely parse away 47% of Americans as true "Bubbas". The pejorative term fell easily into your existing lexicon and stereotypes....I only had to push a button to reveal that. After dangling the term "Bubbas" in the thread's subtitle (not in my original post), you were happy to oblige with "the Bubbas you speak of" voluntarily.

[Riverwind]

After dangling the term "Bubbas" in the thread's subtitle (not in my original post), you were happy to oblige with "the Bubbas you speak of" voluntarily.

Rubbish. You premise was rediculous - I was was responding to you using terms that you wanted to use because I assumed that would be a better way to explain why your premise is rubbish. What would be the point of using different words?

Tackling stereotypes is a worthwhile topic for dicussion, however, if you want to tackle stereotypes you need to get them right. There is no stereotype for people who believe that a god was involved somewhere in the evolution process. Claiming there is one is a waste of time. OTOH - there is a strong stereotype of people who deny evolution. This stereotype exists in the US and Canada. Whether that stereotype should exist is another question.

[bush_cheney2004]

Rubbish. You premise was rediculous - I was was responding to you using terms that you wanted to use because I assumed that would be a better way to explain why your premise is rubbish. What would be the point of using different words?

Now you are talking in circles.....to no avail. So fierce and reflexive was your response to any such association for polled Canadians, the term flowed freely from your keyboard. The focus of the Decima poll was that a majority of Canadians believe in some role for a deity in "creation" or "evolution", but you turned this into a treatise on "Bubbas".

[Riverwind]

but you turned this into a treatise on "Bubbas".

Sorry - that was YOUR word - not mine. YOU made the claim that all people who believed in any sort of theism were Bubbas. Your denials are a rediculous as your original premise.

[fcgv]

Only 60%..hmmm. but of course the question is what sort of a God do they see? The actual God as described by the Church and in the Bible, or the secular God created by the PC crowd?