Can manufacturers compete if based in Canada?

[jdobbin]

Honda and Toyota are no longer what they were, and Toyota's quality is now questionable as Lemon Aid states.

Is Toyota's Quality Slipping?

During the period of the Strategic Vision value survey, Toyota car and truck buyers complained to ConsumerAffairs.Com of oil leaks, poor workmanship,design, strange odors and gasoline mileage as the automaker dealt with a surge in recalls attributed to cost-cutting efforts that use the same parts on more models.

I'm afraid I don't trust ConsumerAffairs.com . They have been connected to a law firm and even the Senate has revoked their credentials.

[geoffrey]

I'm going European on my next purchase... go to those that really know how to make 'em.

[Canuck E Stan]

I'm going European on my next purchase... go to those that really know how to make 'em.

And fix them......VW is one of the worse for costly repairs, check their record on line before you do.

[White Doors]

Also, Consumer reports says 'perceived quality' as opposed to my posting by JD powers which reports ACTUAL reliability.

Perception vs. actual which was kinda my point in the first place.

Both rely on subscribers telling then what has happened with their cars.

No they don't. Only JD powers does. Consumer Reports gives an opinion, JD power surveys the owners.

[White Doors]

I'm going European on my next purchase... go to those that really know how to make 'em.

And fix them......VW is one of the worse for costly repairs, check their record on line before you do.

Yep. My first car was a 4 speed VW fox. Loved the car - everyone loves their first car, but it broke down quite a bit and it was a bitch to fix and the parts were crazily priced.

[Leafless]

Hicks drive trucks, the same types that only buy domestic beers.

You come from the province that is 'king of the good old boys'.

Your cowboy friends aren't going to like you.

[B. Max]

Hicks drive trucks, the same types that only buy domestic beers.

You come from the province that is 'king of the good old boys'.

Your cowboy friends aren't going to like you.

Alberta runs on pickups.

[B. Max]

Yep. My first car was a 4 speed VW fox. Loved the car - everyone loves their first car, but it broke down quite a bit and it was a bitch to fix and the parts were crazily priced.

One of the most beautiful cars ever built. Although my first car was 1956 ford, unfortunately it wasn't a crown victoria.

http://www.pbase.com/image/2119462

[jdobbin]

No they don't. Only JD powers does. Consumer Reports gives an opinion, JD power surveys the owners.

You'll have to show me a citation independent of either organization that state the difference and why one is superior to the other. Otherwise, I think all I am hearing is your opinion.

[White Doors]

No they don't. Only JD powers does. Consumer Reports gives an opinion, JD power surveys the owners.

You'll have to show me a citation independent of either organization that state the difference and why one is superior to the other. Otherwise, I think all I am hearing is your opinion.

Well if you bothered to look at anyone's links it spells it out for you.

JD powers surveys actual owners and consumer reports uses 'predicted reliability'.

I am not going to cite things because you are mentally lazy, sorry.

PS: Beaty ride Bmax!

[jdobbin]

Well if you bothered to look at anyone's links it spells it out for you.

JD powers surveys actual owners and consumer reports uses 'predicted reliability'.

I am not going to cite things because you are mentally lazy, sorry.

You don't cite things because you have nothing to indicate one is better than the other.

Consumer Reports surveys owners. It is in every link and in the Report I am looking at now.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/pr...rview/index.htm

J.D. Powers doesn't actually test vehicles as they say in their own website.

Consumer Reports is published by a non-profit organization that focuses on testing and reviewing products in various categories. The company has a testing facility in New York and employs experts who review numerous consumer products on a regular basis. By contrast, JDPower.com provides ratings based on “voice of the customer” information, which is derived from independent and unbiased consumer feedback—opinions, perceptions, and expectations of consumers who actually own the products and services being rated.

http://www.jdpower.com/faqs-auto/default.aspx

I have nothing against J.D. Powers but don't try to tell me one is better than the other or that Consumer Reports somehow pulls conclusions on new or used cars out of thin air.

[White Doors]

Well if you bothered to look at anyone's links it spells it out for you.

JD powers surveys actual owners and consumer reports uses 'predicted reliability'.

I am not going to cite things because you are mentally lazy, sorry.

You don't cite things because you have nothing to indicate one is better than the other.

Consumer Reports surveys owners. It is in every link and in the Report I am looking at now.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/pr...rview/index.htm

J.D. Powers doesn't actually test vehicles as they say in their own website.

Consumer Reports is published by a non-profit organization that focuses on testing and reviewing products in various categories. The company has a testing facility in New York and employs experts who review numerous consumer products on a regular basis. By contrast, JDPower.com provides ratings based on “voice of the customer” information, which is derived from independent and unbiased consumer feedback—opinions, perceptions, and expectations of consumers who actually own the products and services being rated.

http://www.jdpower.com/faqs-auto/default.aspx

I have nothing against J.D. Powers but don't try to tell me one is better than the other or that Consumer Reports somehow pulls conclusions on new or used cars out of thin air.

Are you THICK man? I did not say one was better than the other I merely explained a difference in the methodologies. We were talking about quality as a perception vs. a reality. Consumer Reports uses 'perceived reliability' in their survey whereas JD powers uses a survey of actual owners who have had the actual cars for some time and asks them to report on actual repairs etc.

I thought it pointed out my point on perceived vs. actual reliability and how they are different and how the NA manufacturers have caught up on actual relibility but the perception lags on perceived relaibility.

It's impossible to have an actual relibility score for a car that was just released which is why Consumer reports uses theirs. I was not disapraging one over the other.

Do you get it now?

[Leafless]

I have nothing against J.D. Powers but don't try to tell me one is better than the other or that Consumer Reports somehow pulls conclusions on new or used cars out of thin air.

And how do they test vehicles jdobbin?

Do they do stress test on ball bearings, test individual struts or other components on a work bench simulating thousands of kilometres, test engines under high rpm's until they self destruct?

Or do they merely drive a car around a track for handling, wind noise, braking response or check door fit around the frame and come up with their own conclusions about how durable or how ir performs at the expense of the manufacturer.

Consumer Reports don't build cars and neither does Lemon Aid, who survives at the expense of buyers of the publication reading other peoples tales of car woes.

There is testing a vehicle or playing with a vehicle and with CR's it sounds like the latter, applying their own invented comparison test which serves no real purpose because everyones personal preferences are different, 'what bothers you, might not bother me'.

[White Doors]

it's all a moot point anyways, alot of the 'foreign' cars are built right here in NA anyways.

[jdobbin]

Are you THICK man? I did not say one was better than the other I merely explained a difference in the methodologies. We were talking about quality as a perception vs. a reality. Consumer Reports uses 'perceived reliability' in their survey whereas JD powers uses a survey of actual owners who have had the actual cars for some time and asks them to report on actual repairs etc.

I thought it pointed out my point on perceived vs. actual reliability and how they are different and how the NA manufacturers have caught up on actual relibility but the perception lags on perceived relaibility.

It's impossible to have an actual relibility score for a car that was just released which is why Consumer reports uses theirs. I was not disapraging one over the other.

Do you get it now?

Perhaps you need a time out. You seem a little upset.

[jdobbin]

And how do they test vehicles jdobbin?

Do they do stress test on ball bearings, test individual struts or other components on a work bench simulating thousands of kilometres, test engines under high rpm's until they self destruct?

Or do they merely drive a car around a track for handling, wind noise, braking response or check door fit around the frame and come up with their own conclusions about how durable or how ir performs at the expense of the manufacturer.

Consumer Reports don't build cars and neither does Lemon Aid, who survives at the expense of buyers of the publication reading other peoples tales of car woes.

There is testing a vehicle or playing with a vehicle and with CR's it sounds like the latter, applying their own invented comparison test which serves no real purpose because everyones personal preferences are different, 'what bothers you, might not bother me'.

You can look for yourself what they test but in a nutshell this page reveals what they test for.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/ne...enter/index.htm

[geoffrey]

Hicks drive trucks, the same types that only buy domestic beers.

You come from the province that is 'king of the good old boys'.

Your cowboy friends aren't going to like you.

I don't have many cowboy friends, I must admit. Outside of Calgary, I agree. But I see alot more European and Asian cars than I do pickups now here. BMW's outnumber Fords that's for sure. Calgary is finally leaving it's roots, slowly for sure, but it's moving. A few immigrants and alot of money will do that to a city.

[B. Max]

I don't have many cowboy friends, I must admit. Outside of Calgary, I agree. But I see alot more European and Asian cars than I do pickups now here. BMW's outnumber Fords that's for sure. Calgary is finally leaving it's roots, slowly for sure, but it's moving. A few immigrants and alot of money will do that to a city.

So how was global warming down in the center of the universe today.

[Leafless]

You can look for yourself what they test but in a nutshell this page reveals what they test for.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/ne...enter/index.htm

That link did not tell me to much.

But this one did:

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/pr...kes-compare.htm

What Consumer Report's does relating to automobiles is mainly evaluate vehicles incorporating consumer surveys.

But then again like I pointed out previously, 'we know nothing about the driving and vehicle care habits relating to the consumers who participate in these surveys'.

[jdobbin]

But then again like I pointed out previously, 'we know nothing about the driving and vehicle care habits relating to the consumers who participate in these surveys'.

If this is such an important criteria, we have no way of knowing what the quality of a car is. It will always be the driver's fault.

[M.Dancer]

it's all a moot point anyways, alot of the 'foreign' cars are built right here in NA anyways.

Shit, our Sunfire is assembled in Mexico....

[White Doors]

it's all a moot point anyways, alot of the 'foreign' cars are built right here in NA anyways.

Shit, our Sunfire is assembled in Mexico....

haha yep.

Alot of the componets are outsourced from all over the world too. For example, a car assembled in NA by a NA manufacturer could have more Japanese componets than a Japanese car assembled in Japan.

It's one big clusterfuck.

[White Doors]

Perhaps you need a time out. You seem a little upset.

My apologies - I have never suffered fools easily. I will try harder for you - I promise.

[Leafless]

But then again like I pointed out previously, 'we know nothing about the driving and vehicle care habits relating to the consumers who participate in these surveys'.

If this is such an important criteria, we have no way of knowing what the quality of a car is. It will always be the driver's fault.

I think it is perfectly logical to say, any vehicle built in North America is safe to drive and any that are not, (relating to a previously unknown fault with a component) would be subject to a manufactures recall and the fault rectified.

Quality 'per say' is dependent on price and covers different aspects relating to desired personal aspirations.

It is rather amazing though, how North American automobile manufactures can turn anything of off the assembly line, for under $30-35k, in comparison to what the dollar was worth in 1980 and still be quite reliable.

[Riverwind]

But then again like I pointed out previously, 'we know nothing about the driving and vehicle care habits relating to the consumers who participate in these surveys'.

Bad vehicle care habits would not affect the results of a random survey since all vehicle types should have an equal percentage of bad drivers. Are you suggesting that owners of American cars are statistically more likely to abuse their cars?

In fact, I think studies that exclude owners with bad vehicle care habits are rigged and not that useful. If I am buying a used car I have no control over what the previous owner did so I would want to know how reliable a car is even if it was abused. A car that is only reliable if it is treated with kid gloves cannot be really called a reliable car.