Representation bill not 'fair': premier

[Leafless]

"Premier Dalton McGuinty says Ontarians should be concerned about proposed federal legislation that shortchanges the province in terms of how many MPs it sends to the House of Commons. "It means that we'll exercise less than our fair share of influence, and that's important," Mr. McGuinty told reporters at Queen's Park yesterday."

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/n...db-3db7e61e5af8

-----------------------------------------------------------

I think premier Dalton Mc.Guinty is right on this one.

But the question is, why is Quebec crying the blues when population growth in other parts of Canada require proper representation? If Quebec objects to this ---to bad!

More on Bill-C-56.

http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news...56-51aef1082fda

[jbg]

But the question is, why is Quebec crying the blues when population growth in other parts of Canada require proper representation? If Quebec objects to this ---to bad!

Being an American, with a Senate geared to bumping up the influence of small states, I am sympathetic to Quebec's position. They have, IMHO, however, far too much power.

[Topaz]

I wonder if they have thought of the growth in Alberta just this year. People from all over the country are going to Alberta to work and how will these people vote or will they be able to vote if they are not counted in an enumeration count. It could change Alberta from being Conservative to NDP or Liberal province. If Quebec has power it because the PM gives it to them! When we get a PM that won't play favourites among the provinces, then Quebec, won't have anymore power than the rest of the provinces and that the way it should be!!

[Leafless]

When we get a PM that won't play favourites among the provinces, then Quebec, won't have anymore power than the rest of the provinces and that the way it should be!!

It's not only power the PM's give Quebec, it appears they are the only privileged group in Canada ALLOWED to advance their society relating to "the will of the majority", while the majority English speakers in Canada are racially discriminated by their own federal government and the will of that majority totally ignored by our federal government.

"The will the majority of Quebecers have affirmed since the 1960s to take control of their social, economic and cultural life and to make French the common and usual language of Quebec"

http://english.republiquelibre.org/The_pri...language_policy

Looks like we need a new form of federal government that will be accountable to the REAL English Canadian majority rather than to be humbled and humiliated by our present form of federal government.

[geoffrey]

It could change Alberta from being Conservative to NDP or Liberal province.

Not a chance really, immigration has been big, but not that big, a few percent a year would take about a century or two if every person was an NDP or Liberal supporter.

People that move to Alberta are unlikely to be very NDP minded anyways, the anti-union attitude and the belief in getting what you work for is pretty dismissive of the socialists (maybe they do ok in some immigrant controlled Edmonton areas).

I'm sure we'll see lots of Liberals move from Ontario for the better jobs (or jobs all together with the rise of the Loonie killing Ontario's manufacturing).

That said, not enough people could move to swing the balance that much. It's pretty much a big myth from the good ol' media. Sit down and think about it. The numbers are impossible.

[jbg]

People that move to Alberta are unlikely to be very NDP minded anyways, the anti-union attitude and the belief in getting what you work for is pretty dismissive of the socialists (maybe they do ok in some immigrant controlled Edmonton areas).

Ask Stan Rogers (link to lyrics for "The Idiot") about that. Lyrics below:

I often take these night shift walks when the foreman's not around.

I turn my back on the cooling stacks and make for open ground.

Far out beyond the tank farm fence where the gas flare makes no sound,

I forget the stink and I always think back to that Eastern town.

I remember back six years ago, this Western life I chose.

And every day, the news would say some factory's going to close.

Well, I could have stayed to take the Dole, but I'm not one of those.

I take nothing free, and that makes me an idiot, I suppose.

So I bid farewell to the Eastern town I never more will see;

But work I must so I eat this dust and breathe refinery.

Oh I miss the green and the woods and streams and I don't like cowboy clothes;

But I like being free and that makes me an idiot I suppose.

So come all you fine young fellows who've been beaten to the ground.

This western life's no paaradise, but it's better than lying down.

Oh, the streets aren't clean, and there's nothing green, and the hills are dirty brown,

But the government Dole will rot your soul back there in your home town.

So bid farewell to the Eastern town you never more will see.

There's self-respect and a steady cheque in this refinery.

You will miss the green and the woods and streams and the dust will fill your nose.

But you'll be free, and just like me, an idiot, I suppose

[geoffrey]

Good post jbg. I suppose that sums up the attitude of lots of the blue collar Alberta workers. They'd rather be home, but they realise that the rest of the country really isn't too economically tasty right now. So they deal with it, and take the dignity of a job in Alberta over EI in Ontario or the Maritimes.

I really disagree with the idea that Alberta has no streams or trees... obviously Stan hasn't been out to Kananaskis or the national parks much... I'd take that over any place in Ontario.

[margrace]

Do you even know who Stan Rogers was and that he has been dead for years?

[jbg]

Do you even know who Stan Rogers was and that he has been dead for years?

If I didn't know who he was how would I have known to have posted those lyrics, or do you assume that us Yanks are devoid of knowledge of what goes on NOTB?

He's one of my favorite singers. Some of his songs, such as "Field Behind the Plow" (I think that's the name) and "The Idiot" remind me a lot of my favorite signer of all times, Gordon Lightfoot. Yes, I know that he died in a 1978 plane crash, when I did not know of him. Thus, I was deprived of the chance to see him perform.

Does that answer your question?

[scribblet]

Do you even know who Stan Rogers was and that he has been dead for years?

Obviously he does or he wouldn't have posted it.

[geoffrey]

Do you even know who Stan Rogers was and that he has been dead for years?

Yup, it's been a constant theme in Canadian history, Maritime migration towards the West is hardly a new concept. If it was true 30 years ago, then perhaps we need to look at the underlying issues in the Eastern half of this country.

[B. Max]

But the question is, why is Quebec crying the blues when population growth in other parts of Canada require proper representation? If Quebec objects to this ---to bad!

More on Bill-C-56.

http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news...56-51aef1082fda

I think there is to many of them in there now. They should not be increasing any of them. If we had a population the size of the US they would likely have to build a new building for all the new seats they'd need.

[Leafless]

But the question is, why is Quebec crying the blues when population growth in other parts of Canada require proper representation? If Quebec objects to this ---to bad!

More on Bill-C-56.

http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news...56-51aef1082fda

I think there is to many of them in there now. They should not be increasing any of them. If we had a population the size of the US they would likely have to build a new building for all the new seats they'd need.

Increased representation does not necessarily mean more representation for Canadian citizens, as we know already, MP's tow the party line and ignore concerns of the electorate and do not even allow the electorate to participate in important matters involving our own constitution.

Everything involving our form of democratic government appears to be a sham.

I think Canada's only answer is for Canada to become a constitutional based federal republic as it is ungovernable as a constitutional monarchy and parliamentary democracy with conditions worsening all the time making many Canadians second class citizens.

[B. Max]

name='Leafless' date='May 21 2007, 06:33 PM' post='220835']

Everything involving our form of democratic government appears to be a sham.

I would go little further and say it is a sham.

I think Canada's only answer is for Canada to become a constitutional based federal republic as it is ungovernable as a constitutional monarchy and parliamentary democracy with conditions worsening all the time making many Canadians second class citizens.

A constitutional republic with very restricted and well defined federal powers. Along with a proper bill of individual rights. Otherwise just scrap the whole thing and the provinces each go their own way.

[geoffrey]

I think Canada's only answer is for Canada to become a constitutional based federal republic as it is ungovernable as a constitutional monarchy and parliamentary democracy with conditions worsening all the time making many Canadians second class citizens.

How would a republic change any of the major issues facing Canadians? The best solution is to dissolve the Federal government and have a shared economic union between the provinces, mutual defense and foreign policy... EU style. Put the power in the hands of the people that know the situation best, put the responsibility on the backs of those locally involved.

[seabee]

The best solution is to dissolve the Federal government and have a shared economic union between the provinces, mutual defense and foreign policy... EU style.

That is what Québec has been asking for for decades, under the Union Nationale, under the Parti Québécois, and under the Liberals. And the ADQ would be prompt to say yes.

[jbg]

Do you even know who Stan Rogers was and that he has been dead for years?

Obviously he does or he wouldn't have posted it.

Obviously certain posters either assume that all Americans are dead between the ears, or perhaps that poster is. I find many of those kinds of posts highly insulting and pointless.

[Leafless]

name='Leafless' date='May 21 2007, 06:33 PM' post='220835']

Everything involving our form of democratic government appears to be a sham.

I would go little further and say it is a sham.

I think Canada's only answer is for Canada to become a constitutional based federal republic as it is ungovernable as a constitutional monarchy and parliamentary democracy with conditions worsening all the time making many Canadians second class citizens.

A constitutional republic with very restricted and well defined federal powers. Along with a proper bill of individual rights. Otherwise just scrap the whole thing and the provinces each go their own way.

IOW, similar to a U.S. style government.

[jbg]

IOW, similar to a U.S. style government.

Heaven forefend!!! What Canadian would ever want to be caught dead admiring anything about the US other than its northern border (Alaska's eastern and southern border)?

[B. Max]

IOW, similar to a U.S. style government.

Heaven forefend!!! What Canadian would ever want to be caught dead admiring anything about the US other than its northern border (Alaska's eastern and southern border)?

It's a good form of government, unfortunately years of undermining the constitution by activist left wing judges and the likes of the ACLU have been harmful.

[jbg]

IOW, similar to a U.S. style government.

Heaven forefend!!! What Canadian would ever want to be caught dead admiring anything about the US other than its northern border (Alaska's eastern and southern border)?

It's a good form of government, unfortunately years of undermining the constitution by activist left wing judges and the likes of the ACLU have been harmful.

On balance, our Courts have not been harmful. We're carved into, I believe, 13 judicial circuits, some of which are liberal, some conservative, that serve as a motley group of "second highest courts". The US Supreme Court steps in to resolve conflicts among the circuits, Given our country's relatively slight political drift, largely within conservative territory, for all but the Carter years (and he appointed no Supreme Court judges) the resolutions have, with a few significant exceptions such as Roe v. Wade (I applaud its result, but not its reasoning by the way) relatively conservative.

Activist judges generally have gotten slapped down.

[B. Max]

On balance, our Courts have not been harmful. We're carved into, I believe, 13 judicial circuits, some of which are liberal, some conservative, that serve as a motley group of "second highest courts". The US Supreme Court steps in to resolve conflicts among the circuits, Given our country's relatively slight political drift, largely within conservative territory, for all but the Carter years (and he appointed no Supreme Court judges) the resolutions have, with a few significant exceptions such as Roe v. Wade (I applaud its result, but not its reasoning by the way) relatively conservative.

Activist judges generally have gotten slapped down.

I've heard the number since R.v W is thirty million and counting. As far as activist judges, I believe judicial watch would disagree with you on that. Not all activists judges who one would consider as none constructionist are in the supreme court and most cases never make it to the SC. It also goes beyond judges to congress and I believe the first attempt to undermine the constitution and republican form of government was committed by a state. I'm trying to think of the name of a book that details this, and I can't. So I'll just post this anyway and when I do remember it I'll tell you.

[jbg]

I've heard the number since R.v W is thirty million and counting. As far as activist judges, I believe judicial watch would disagree with you on that. Not all activists judges who one would consider as none constructionist are in the supreme court and most cases never make it to the SC. It also goes beyond judges to congress and I believe the first attempt to undermine the constitution and republican form of government was committed by a state. I'm trying to think of the name of a book that details this, and I can't. So I'll just post this anyway and when I do remember it I'll tell you.

Thanks.

I did cover the lower courts in my post, and the Circuit Courts have done a good job of trimming the excess of the odd activist judge. Roe v. Wade was somewhat of a fluke, but very much in keeping with the times, where many states had already legalized abortion.