The Issue of Ethanol

[blueblood]

And costs them more at the grocery store.

Given that commodities are rising fast now even without ethanol, I don't buy the big fall off in price for farmers.

And I am not opposed to ethanol, just opposed to large and growing amount of food going into gas tanks with no end in sight.

Long term there will be a price fall off without ethanol. More land will be sown and with developing countries getting richer they can also afford to use modern farming practices. Ethanol cools off gas prices and creates a price floor.

That food was overproduced waste. It was being grown at a loss. It was either quit growing or find another use for it. There was going to be less product around anyway, the costs to grow crops have to be paid. There is end in sight. In the U.S. the ethanol plants are scaling back production due to the high cost of corn (because of flooding) Even at 135 dollar oil, 8 dollar a bushell corn is not feasible for ethanol production and goes into food instead; likewise if there was record corn production spawned from 8 dollar corn, dropping corn prices (around say 3-6 dollars a bushell) with 135 dollar oil, the excess overproduced corn goes into ethanol production.

Thanks to the stats provided by Coach Cartman, even with 1/3 of the U.S. crop going to ethanol, food prices are still affordable in North America. It's still more profitable to make food with high priced commodities than ethanol and not put the consumer in the poor house.

[jdobbin]

Long term there will be a price fall off without ethanol. More land will be sown and with developing countries getting richer they can also afford to use modern farming practices. Ethanol cools off gas prices and creates a price floor.

And continues to raise food prices while not doing anything in favour of emissions according to a growing amount of experts.

That food was overproduced waste. It was being grown at a loss. It was either quit growing or find another use for it. There was going to be less product around anyway, the costs to grow crops have to be paid. There is end in sight. In the U.S. the ethanol plants are scaling back production due to the high cost of corn (because of flooding) Even at 135 dollar oil, 8 dollar a bushell corn is not feasible for ethanol production and goes into food instead; likewise if there was record corn production spawned from 8 dollar corn, dropping corn prices (around say 3-6 dollars a bushell) with 135 dollar oil, the excess overproduced corn goes into ethanol production.

Thanks to the stats provided by Coach Cartman, even with 1/3 of the U.S. crop going to ethanol, food prices are still affordable in North America. It's still more profitable to make food with high priced commodities than ethanol and not put the consumer in the poor house.

I'm sorry. What you call waste, other people call food. And there is something very crude about putting one year's food supply for one person into a gas tank.

Moreover, when it doesn't do the job on emissions, it is a poor policy.

[blueblood]

And continues to raise food prices while not doing anything in favour of emissions according to a growing amount of experts.

I'm sorry. What you call waste, other people call food. And there is something very crude about putting one year's food supply for one person into a gas tank.

Moreover, when it doesn't do the job on emissions, it is a poor policy.

As proven by Coach Cartman those food price rises in Canada are negligible.

Growing a crop regardless of its use creates some emissions. With ethanol, that's keeping x amt. of oil in the ground, now with burning DDG's in coal plants, that keeps coal in the ground, and cellulosic ethanol from the stem, keeps more oil in the ground. I'd say that reduces emissions if there even was a problem.

Than the other people can pay money to cover the cost of growing it. It's not crude it's economics, producing food at a loss is unsustainable. If that one person wants a secure food supply, there is a price that has to be paid. Growing food is not cheap, The Europeans and Americans realize that and subsidize to ensure a steady flow of grain. Canada tried to cheap out, and it turned into a disaster, Canada has fixed this problem by making sure it does not over produce grain.

With rock bottom prices in the past years, that one person went without food, the other person went without a tank of gas, because that land was idle. By creating a price floor, it is ensuring that agriculture is profitable so there is enough grain for both the gas tank and the person. It also lets developing countries boost ag output instead of being dumped with subsidized grain putting their farmers out of business.

[jdobbin]

As proven by Coach Cartman those food price rises in Canada are negligible.

Only certain foods. The dollar rise has helped on overall inflation and we are still nowhere near the 5% mandated in the new legislation.

Growing a crop regardless of its use creates some emissions. With ethanol, that's keeping x amt. of oil in the ground, now with burning DDG's in coal plants, that keeps coal in the ground, and cellulosic ethanol from the stem, keeps more oil in the ground. I'd say that reduces emissions if there even was a problem.

Because it requires a lot of energy to produce ethanol, it is not economical except for huge subsidies. Consumers end up paying twice with taxes for the subsidy and higher prices on grain and other products.

Than the other people can pay money to cover the cost of growing it. It's not crude it's economics, producing food at a loss is unsustainable. If that one person wants a secure food supply, there is a price that has to be paid. Growing food is not cheap, The Europeans and Americans realize that and subsidize to ensure a steady flow of grain. Canada tried to cheap out, and it turned into a disaster, Canada has fixed this problem by making sure it does not over produce grain.

This was not supposed to be a bail out for farmers.

With rock bottom prices in the past years, that one person went without food, the other person went without a tank of gas, because that land was idle. By creating a price floor, it is ensuring that agriculture is profitable so there is enough grain for both the gas tank and the person. It also lets developing countries boost ag output instead of being dumped with subsidized grain putting their farmers out of business.

It was not supposed to be a support system for farmers. The benefits to the emissions reductions is being questioned except by those who benefit the most.