Protesters shut down quarry outside Deseronto

[Posit]

Napanee Guide

"News - 3/23/2007 @ 12:00

A quarry operating on the disputed Culbertson Land Tract has been shut down by protesters. Thursday night around 5:30 a group of protesters, numbering roughly 150 and claiming to represent the interests of Mohawks moved in on the quarry. "

When are we going to deal honourably with our First Nations instead of forcing them to take more drastic action...one piece at a time?

[geoffrey]

All 150 should be charged with trespassing. When will the Indians learn that we have laws that need to be followed in Canada. If you've got a problem, take it to the Courts, not private property.

[Posit]

From what I have read in other media, the operator left the gates open. Under the law no one can be charged for trespass to a private property where the public is invited to do business, unless the business owner asks them to leave. That apparently hasn't happened.

As well, the land is recognized by the federal government as belonging to the Mohawks of the Bay of Quinte. It would be pretty hard to get a conviction, or to justify a police raid while occupying their own land.

The government doesn't want land claims in the courts. That's why they have the Specific Lands Claims Commission. The point being made by this occupation is that it is counter productive to be simultaneously developing land, or extracting resources when a recognized land claims process is underway.

[Remiel]

How convenient for me, that I now have something going on near where I live, hehehe...

[Borg]

Napanee Guide

"News - 3/23/2007 @ 12:00

A quarry operating on the disputed Culbertson Land Tract has been shut down by protesters. Thursday night around 5:30 a group of protesters, numbering roughly 150 and claiming to represent the interests of Mohawks moved in on the quarry. "

When are we going to deal honourably with our First Nations instead of forcing them to take more drastic action...one piece at a time?

Honourably - that is such a joke. Perhaps the so called honourable elders should take a little responsibility for what has happened. Oops - that means they mighthave to look in the mirror as well.

Why am I not surprized at this?

Yet another grab by some folks who would take for free.

I am not responsible for what my ancestors did - and I am tired of being told I am.

Kill the reservation system and kill indian affairs and certainly kill the native welfare system - let those folks shift for themselves as the rest of us do. In the end we would ALL be far better off.

Ok folks - bring on the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune - but remember - these criminals will likely go on forever and no one will ever be charged. Imagine if one of you did this. The story would be quite different.

Borg

[Posit]

Ok. So you are asking Elders to take the blame for John Culbertson in cahoots with the Indian agent stealing 980 acres from their territory, even though the government of the day as well as the government of today recognize that land could not be sold or transfered to private interests? Huh? Are you for real?

Culbertson Tract

I agree with you it is time that the Mohawks stop the settlers from getting something for free and this recent eviction seems to be the only way to go. If you father stole a gun and you inherited it and failed to return it knowing it was stolen, then you are equally as guilty as your father for possessing stolen property. That is the law but I see that you prefer to exempt us from complying with our own laws while imposing them in full force on those who couldn't fight back. I smell a sense of fascism in your tone.....

If you did a bit of background you would find that the Tyendinaga Reservation along with most of the Iroquois Allied reservations are the most prosperous in Canada. Tyendinaga in fact has a better economy than its neighbour Deseronto and most of Deseronto's economy comes from natives who live on the reservation and who live in town. I would be willing to bet that more than 25% of the residents earn more than you do. As a neighbour to their community I recognize a huge market with disposable income ready and willing to purchase products and yet your kind of talk is the exact reason that many natives refuse to shop here.

Get off your high horse and stop pretending it is anything more than a Shetland pony.

[Borg]

Ok. So you are asking Elders to take the blame for John Culbertson in cahoots with the Indian agent stealing 980 acres from their territory, even though the government of the day as well as the government of today recognize that land could not be sold or transfered to private interests? Huh? Are you for real?

Culbertson Tract

I agree with you it is time that the Mohawks stop the settlers from getting something for free and this recent eviction seems to be the only way to go. If you father stole a gun and you inherited it and failed to return it knowing it was stolen, then you are equally as guilty as your father for possessing stolen property. That is the law but I see that you prefer to exempt us from complying with our own laws while imposing them in full force on those who couldn't fight back. I smell a sense of fascism in your tone.....

If you did a bit of background you would find that the Tyendinaga Reservation along with most of the Iroquois Allied reservations are the most prosperous in Canada. Tyendinaga in fact has a better economy than its neighbour Deseronto and most of Deseronto's economy comes from natives who live on the reservation and who live in town. I would be willing to bet that more than 25% of the residents earn more than you do. As a neighbour to their community I recognize a huge market with disposable income ready and willing to purchase products and yet your kind of talk is the exact reason that many natives refuse to shop here.

Get off your high horse and stop pretending it is anything more than a Shetland pony.

I only own a couple of horses and not one is over 16 hands. I also do not use force to get my way - otherwise I go to jail.

Indian management is extremely poor and often very crooked - multiple cases in western Canada. I suspect the same in your part of Ontario.

I am sure those on the tyendinega reservation are doing well.

I wonder how much tax they pay from their businesses - after all my "gifts" of tax dollars probably opened most of their businesses.

Oh well - they will complain and crowd and demonstrate for more - even though most of us work our tails off to provide money for the gifts that keep things going.

Glad you brought this to our attention - it will provide some light hearted diversion from the rains of spring.

Borg

[Posit]

I guess the abuse, murder rape and molestations we used on natives in residential stalags and the dumping and murder of Indians without coats in sub-freezing temperatures - all of which continue to contribute to our prosperity as Canadians are really "gifts" to Indians. And using the resources of the stolen lands to make concrete and supply raw materials for our houses and roads are simply payment for all the charity we have shown them. Is that what you would have us believe?

The fact is that we are all here because of treaties and agreements and without those treaties - which we are committed to by law - we wouldn't even make it as poor dirt farmers. The fact is we are responsible for not holding up our side of the bargain and whenever a contract is not fulfilled, according to law they are entitled to evict and repossess whatever hasn't been paid for, and they are protected by our law for doing it.

So we can either face the evictions and repossessions or we can sit down with Natives and say "Hey, I know my grandfathers didn't make it right so now we will negotiate a way where we can eventually make full restitution, with interest for that mistake." If we do not act responsibly and honourably and instruct our government to do likewise, then we are either in for a civil war, or we will forever burden our children with our own stubbornness. I say it is time to pay the piper since we have enjoy his music this long and I for one don't want to see my children suffer for OUR mistakes.

[Borg]

I guess the abuse, murder rape and molestations we used on natives in residential stalags and the dumping and murder of Indians without coats in sub-freezing temperatures - all of which continue to contribute to our prosperity as Canadians are really "gifts" to Indians.

We? Not me batman - and not 99.999% of the Canucks I know - YOU? Well maybe. Do you get tired wearing that hair coat and beating yourself while kneeling on stones?

How long do I have to keep apologizing for something I did not do

And using the resources of the stolen lands to make concrete and supply raw materials for our houses and roads are simply payment for all the charity we have shown them. Is that what you would have us believe?

Someone is getting that money - and guarandamntee you someone on that reservation is getting a cut. Better follow the cash and better "chat" with the locals.

The fact is that we are all here because of treaties and agreements and without those treaties - which we are committed to by law - we wouldn't even make it as poor dirt farmers.

Agreed - but they change every time someone opens the book and bleeding hearts give more of MY MONEY because it is not their money - when in fact it well and truly IS is my tax dollar. Treaties - worthless paper that is bent and twisted and broken on a daily basis - and not always by whitey

The fact is we are responsible for not holding up our side of the bargain and whenever a contract is not fulfilled, according to law they are entitled to evict and repossess whatever hasn't been paid for, and they are protected by our law for doing it.

Hmm ... so the red man is totally innocent? You really do live in a world with a sky of a different colour. Follow the money - they got more than their fair share of crooks as well - stop wearing that hair shirt and stand up and bark like a dog.

So we can either face the evictions and repossessions or we can sit down with Natives and say "Hey, I know my grandfathers didn't make it right so now we will negotiate a way where we can eventually make full restitution, with interest for that mistake."

Not me - I did not do it and it cannot happen today - so perhaps the Cree need to demand reparations from the Blackfoot and the Dene? You wanna see problems - go to Fort Nelson and watch how they treat each other. They are not white coated and sin free - suspect your tyendinega folks are not either. Aren't they related to the folks on the island in Cornwall? Get real - this is a money grab and nothing more.

Negotiation is not required. What is required is the killing of the reservation system, the killing of the tax free status and the killing of indian affairs.

After all the only bad guy is the white anglo saxon P/C who works his tail off to simply survive. Cannot be any other colour and be a racist or a bad guy - you have to be a white tax paying citizen.

If we do not act responsibly and honourably and instruct our government to do likewise, then we are either in for a civil war, or we will forever burden our children with our own stubbornness.

Hmmmm .... and the other side does not have to do the same? Culturally they are excused for their bad behaviour? If I follow your train of thought you truly do believe that two wrongs - one past and one present do make a right. I hope your kids are independent thinkers because you probably screwed them up as well.

I say it is time to pay the piper since we have enjoy his music this long and I for one don't want to see my children suffer for OUR mistakes.

We have paid and paid and paid and paid and paid. Time for "no more"

You see this as a customer base and simply want to encourage them to shop in your store. I see this as a time for them to grow up and play the hand life has dealt them - just as we all do. Time to stop living in the past and whining all the way to the bank.

Borg

[geoffrey]

From what I have read in other media, the operator left the gates open. Under the law no one can be charged for trespass to a private property where the public is invited to do business, unless the business owner asks them to leave. That apparently hasn't happened.

Umm... I'm sure they are having a big pow pow and roasting a pig now, I'm sure the quarry woners would like to get back to work.

As well, the land is recognized by the federal government as belonging to the Mohawks of the Bay of Quinte. It would be pretty hard to get a conviction, or to justify a police raid while occupying their own land.

Obviously the quarry owner has rights to be there too. Otherwise, they wouldn't be. Do you have a citation for your claim that the Federal government has declared this land belonging to the Mohawks of whatever? Do you also have any evidence that the Federal government has any constitutional authority over land titles and the such? Sure they deal with the Indians, but the land system is a purely provincial jurisdiction.

The government doesn't want land claims in the courts. That's why they have the Specific Lands Claims Commission. The point being made by this occupation is that it is counter productive to be simultaneously developing land, or extracting resources when a recognized land claims process is underway.

Well, people that don't live on reserves need jobs, so too bad, let them work while they have the rights to do so. When the Indians get the rights, which I assume is unlikely because they haven't been able to secure an injunction, then they can do what they wish with the property.

[Remiel]

Wait... you're not from Napanee, are you, Posit?

[Posit]

The "other" side, Remiel....

The Mohawks ensured the quarry owner was given ample notice. He was notified in 1998 to desist and reminded in 2003. In January they told him that in 60 days they were coming to evict him. They gave him 75 days just in fairness and by the time they arrived all his equipment was gone and he was no where in sight.

From what I hear they were in the process of sacrificing an virgin and drinking her blood. Of course there are some here who will believe that. They don't eat pork on Saturdays.

The province has no jurisdiction over anything Native - taxation included - and the relationship is federal all the way. The Crown had a obligation not to break the law or to interfere with the treaty conditions. They promptly did both. There are no valid deeds for anywhere on the Culbertson Tract and if the province gets involved it is up to the feds to set them straight.

The life they have been handed Borg, is the justice of righting the wrongs of the past. The hand that we have been dealt is to fold or bluff - neither of which is effective since First Nations hold all the cards from the Charter to the Supreme Court to moral and righteous reasoning. I would suggest that you learn to live with that. You'll be dealing with this the rest of your life and it will eat you alive if you continue to wallow in phallic self-pity.

[Borg]

The "other" side, Remiel....

The Mohawks ensured the quarry owner was given ample notice. He was notified in 1998 to desist and reminded in 2003. In January they told him that in 60 days they were coming to evict him. They gave him 75 days just in fairness and by the time they arrived all his equipment was gone and he was no where in sight.

From what I hear they were in the process of sacrificing an virgin and drinking her blood. Of course there are some here who will believe that. They don't eat pork on Saturdays.

The province has no jurisdiction over anything Native - taxation included - and the relationship is federal all the way. The Crown had a obligation not to break the law or to interfere with the treaty conditions. They promptly did both. There are no valid deeds for anywhere on the Culbertson Tract and if the province gets involved it is up to the feds to set them straight.

The life they have been handed Borg, is the justice of righting the wrongs of the past. The hand that we have been dealt is to fold or bluff - neither of which is effective since First Nations hold all the cards from the Charter to the Supreme Court to moral and righteous reasoning. I would suggest that you learn to live with that. You'll be dealing with this the rest of your life and it will eat you alive if you continue to wallow in phallic self-pity.

Wallow? Self pity? That is so funny.

I have not once written about self pity - simply because there is non.

I hate them all equally. Even you, you simpering weakling.

Canada is divided and Canada is weak because people such as yourself are afraid to stand up and bark. Try getting a job and try paying some taxes - get off the federal government tit - then and only then will you truly be a member of this left leaning - "no body is guilty anymore" society.

Point and counter point. You and your type are such a waste.

Ta ta,

Borg

[Posit]

What a twit...

I have a six figure income dough boy. LOL

The difference is that I prefer true justices over the myths that people like you subscribe to. I prefer to see the on-going injustices settled once and for all. I prefer accountability over the kind of self-pity and blame that pedantic xenophobes constantly lay on the political table. Maybe YOU should get a REAL job that involves some physical labour. It might make a man out of you after all.....

The natives have a valid legal case. If you cannot debate the merits of the legal position then I suggest that you go share recipes in the "Homemaker's Section".

[geoffrey]

The natives have a valid legal case. If you cannot debate the merits of the legal position then I suggest that you go share recipes in the "Homemaker's Section".

Then present it to the Court and stop breaking the law in the meantime.

[Rue]

Then present it to the Court and stop breaking the law in the meantime.

They are and they haven't broken any laws. By the way since you are telling them to present their cases in court, why don't you read some of them and try understand the law and that previous case decisions established, before you accuse them of breaking laws. Why don't you find out what laws the federal and provincial government have broken before you accuse aboriginals of breaking the law. You clearly have no clue because you have already made up your mind like the other poster trying to do his John Wayne imitation that you have no clue and are simply now reverting back to the lazy ungrateful law breaking dirty drunk indian stereotype. Its tiresome. Its tiresome because people like you and John Wayne can't seem to exist without a scapegoat to hate.

[blueblood]

From what I have read in other media, the operator left the gates open. Under the law no one can be charged for trespass to a private property where the public is invited to do business, unless the business owner asks them to leave. That apparently hasn't happened.

As well, the land is recognized by the federal government as belonging to the Mohawks of the Bay of Quinte. It would be pretty hard to get a conviction, or to justify a police raid while occupying their own land.

The government doesn't want land claims in the courts. That's why they have the Specific Lands Claims Commission. The point being made by this occupation is that it is counter productive to be simultaneously developing land, or extracting resources when a recognized land claims process is underway.

If it's posted land all it needs is a sign. As a land owner dealing with people who fill ditches on my land I exercise this right to the full extent of the law.

[Posit]

The sign says: Welcome to Thurlow Sand and Gravel. Please proceed to the Site Office.

There are no "NO Trespassing" signs anywhere. Kinda shoots your theory all to pot.....

[blueblood]

The sign says: Welcome to Thurlow Sand and Gravel. Please proceed to the Site Office.

There are no "NO Trespassing" signs anywhere. Kinda shoots your theory all to pot.....

No it doesn't, if there's no "NO Trespassing" signs and if the protesters aren't comitting any crimes then the quarry owners are hooped, but it's hard to believe that there are no "NO Trespassing" signs at a quarry considering a truck load fetches a nice price.

[Posit]

Well there were no "NO Trespassing" signs prohibiting access. I suppose that the operators figures that without a loader, it would be pretty hard to load a dump truck with a shovel. And ya know, if a guy is willing to try, then he deserves all the gravel he can heave......

There are reports that the OPP have been trying to make it a bigger issue by antagonizing the occupiers and the Nation police have managed to tell them to go pick beans. THAT's the unjust and unlawful way in which the OPP seem to operate. Next thing you know they will release a wildcat SWAT member to take a shot like they did with Dudley George....

[Borg]

Well there were no "NO Trespassing" signs prohibiting access. I suppose that the operators figures that without a loader, it would be pretty hard to load a dump truck with a shovel. And ya know, if a guy is willing to try, then he deserves all the gravel he can heave......

There are reports that the OPP have been trying to make it a bigger issue by antagonizing the occupiers and the Nation police have managed to tell them to go pick beans. THAT's the unjust and unlawful way in which the OPP seem to operate. Next thing you know they will release a wildcat SWAT member to take a shot like they did with Dudley George....

Well, I am sure you can find a better scape goat than the police.

Perhaps you can find a way to blame Bush and Blair for this?

Of course every time something like this happens it is because the white guy is an asshole who has managed to piss off the locals.

I wonder, has the native ever been in the wrong - seems not so.

Of course not - the native side of the program is ALWAYS in the right.

All this does is make a bunch of folks who would be willing to listen - turn a deaf ear to the law breakers. And indeed they are just that.

Ta ta Posit

Borg

[Posit]

I can understand why you would want to turn a deaf ear to the government because they are truly the lawbreakers. The police are their agents and have broken the law in the past with impunity.

There are lots of natives who don't do right but in this case it seems they have crossed their tees and dotted their eys. Yet they haven't pissed off us locals since many of us support the return of their land, and compensation for all the years they have been without it.

From what I hear when they want to piss off the locals, we will all know about it. Since I have a long fuse, it is not likely it will affect me. But I can see that you aren't even there and they got you, just like they planned...lol...

[Borg]

I can understand why you would want to turn a deaf ear to the government because they are truly the lawbreakers. The police are their agents and have broken the law in the past with impunity.

There are lots of natives who don't do right but in this case it seems they have crossed their tees and dotted their eys. Yet they haven't pissed off us locals since many of us support the return of their land, and compensation for all the years they have been without it.

From what I hear when they want to piss off the locals, we will all know about it. Since I have a long fuse, it is not likely it will affect me. But I can see that you aren't even there and they got you, just like they planned...lol...

Poor Posit - you actually hover over this topic don't you - waiting to strike.

Actually if you had not mentioned it I would never have known - I just wanted to see who was squealing like a pig over the evil white guy and the noble red man.

Ta ta

Borg

[Posit]

Poor poor Borg...Just a poor racist without a cause....All your "evil white man" self pity should be channeled to something more constructive...perhaps like getting a real job...

[guyser]

Posit , are you a FN or not?