Ontario going to $10 hrly wage within two years.

[Topaz]

The minimum wage, isn't enough for the lowest paid people to live on. One suugested I heard today was that Canada or Ontario have a "living wage" were our tax $$, give every working Canadian money to be able to have shelter and food they need it. Rents in this country are out of control, alot of the apartment aren't really fit to live in. I know alot of small business don;t like it but if these people trying to make life better for themselves , especially if they are on welfare, this increase could help over time get some of these people off the welfare and into better paying jobs.

[ClearWest]

The minimum wage, isn't enough for the lowest paid people to live on. One suugested I heard today was that Canada or Ontario have a "living wage" were our tax $$, give every working Canadian money to be able to have shelter and food they need it. Rents in this country are out of control, alot of the apartment aren't really fit to live in. I know alot of small business don;t like it but if these people trying to make life better for themselves , especially if they are on welfare, this increase could help over time get some of these people off the welfare and into better paying jobs.

If someone is being provided for, oftentimes their goal will not be to get out of that comfort zone, it'll be to stay in it. This will lead to more government dependants not less.

It's wonderful that people want to help others - but taking other people's money to do it is wrong, verging on tyrannical.

[Canadian Blue]

Clearwest I'll disagree with you there, I fail to see how providing a living wage will make people lazier. As well taking people's money to do it is alright since in a society we have control over our own economy. I support the living wage because it will alleviate poverty, and I also think that it could help people get up on their feet.

[Figleaf]

Dirty lowlife working-poor. Fuck 'em. Keep 'em down, I say.

Better bring in a 60 hour work week too. 'Overtime' my ass. LUCKY to have any job at all.

And why can't they be better parents, too? Dirt poor lowlives raising dirt poor kids. Lazy, that's what they are.

And poor morals to boot! Slutting and rutting with their 'rock and roll' music. Disgusting.

By God, that Trudeau... he screwed up this country but good. It's gotten so a white male can't pinch his secretary's ass anymore without a goddam feminist inquisition!

[ClearWest]

Clearwest I'll disagree with you there, I fail to see how providing a living wage will make people lazier. As well taking people's money to do it is alright since in a society we have control over our own economy. I support the living wage because it will alleviate poverty, and I also think that it could help people get up on their feet.

The theory is that if a person has everything brought to him, he will be less likely to step out of that bubble and work for his own stuff because then his supply of free stuff will be cut off. If you have a choice between being given 3 apples, or going out to work for 5 apples - some people would want to pursue those two extra apples, but many would be content with the 3 because it requires 0 effort. With less people being productive, less goes into the economy, and less comes out - meaning that there will be less apples to go around anyway and we'll all be poorer.

It's a basic economic principle. When people have no reason to pursue the apples - the apple trade will slow greatly. An example of this in history is War Communism in the USSR. The gov't took all wheat and distributed it to those in need - which sounds good, but it resulted in far lesser productivity - why would a farmer bother to work harder if his wheat was just going to be taken away? That's why Lenin had to introduce the New Economic Policy which allowed peasants to sell their extra wheat, thus providing the incentive for better productivity. It's a similar situation today, only it's - why would Joe bother to work at all if he could get a similar result by doing nothing and relying on the government.

You're right that as a society we take measures to try to control our economy. However, I would argue that we should not, as it often has negative economic and social results. There are many ways for people to get a leg up in our society without the government getting involved.

Figleaf, your post was very funny. However, I'm not suggesting that we keep anybody down or force anybody to work. It is government which keeps people down by driving them to dependency. And I firmly oppose any legislation which forces labour.

[blueblood]

Clearwest I'll disagree with you there, I fail to see how providing a living wage will make people lazier. As well taking people's money to do it is alright since in a society we have control over our own economy. I support the living wage because it will alleviate poverty, and I also think that it could help people get up on their feet.

The theory is that if a person has everything brought to him, he will be less likely to step out of that bubble and work for his own stuff because then his supply of free stuff will be cut off. If you have a choice between being given 3 apples, or going out to work for 5 apples - some people would want to pursue those two extra apples, but many would be content with the 3 because it requires 0 effort. With less people being productive, less goes into the economy, and less comes out - meaning that there will be less apples to go around anyway and we'll all be poorer.

It's a basic economic principle. When people have no reason to pursue the apples - the apple trade will slow greatly. An example of this in history is War Communism in the USSR. The gov't took all wheat and distributed it to those in need - which sounds good, but it resulted in far lesser productivity - why would a farmer bother to work harder if his wheat was just going to be taken away? That's why Lenin had to introduce the New Economic Policy which allowed peasants to sell their extra wheat, thus providing the incentive for better productivity. It's a similar situation today, only it's - why would Joe bother to work at all if he could get a similar result by doing nothing and relying on the government.

You're right that as a society we take measures to try to control our economy. However, I would argue that we should not, as it often has negative economic and social results. There are many ways for people to get a leg up in our society without the government getting involved.

Figleaf, your post was very funny. However, I'm not suggesting that we keep anybody down or force anybody to work. It is government which keeps people down by driving them to dependency. And I firmly oppose any legislation which forces labour.

Not a minimum wage thread again, lets hurt the economy by putting a sky high min. wage.

[madmax]

Liberals running scared of the NDP?

This is nothing but damage control. Not because the Liberals think that people need an income boost to $10 in the next few years. It is because the NDP earned another seat in Toronto and they need to neutralize the NDP momentum. They also realized that while controversial, the NDP $10 min campaign had staying power, unless they came up with one of their own.

Typical Liberal Strategy.

http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2007/03/21/m...y-min-wage.html

Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty has confirmed that Thursday's provincial budget will include a minimum wage hike.

The Liberal government has been under pressure from the NDP to increase the minimum wage to $10 an hour from the current $8.

[Curiouscanuck]

Not good for the Ontario economy. The lost jobs are already there. We don't need these inflationary pressures. The economic disregard at this time of pain is dangerous.

[Borg]

Dirty lowlife working-poor. Fuck 'em. Keep 'em down, I say.

Better bring in a 60 hour work week too. 'Overtime' my ass. LUCKY to have any job at all.

And why can't they be better parents, too? Dirt poor lowlives raising dirt poor kids. Lazy, that's what they are.

And poor morals to boot! Slutting and rutting with their 'rock and roll' music. Disgusting.

By God, that Trudeau... he screwed up this country but good. It's gotten so a white male can't pinch his secretary's ass anymore without a goddam feminist inquisition!

Thanks for the chuckle - I needed it today.

Borg

[geoffrey]

Enjoy your unemployment Ontario. In a province with 6.3% unemployment (compared to Canada's 6.1%... which is a ridiculous high number to even compare to, the United States has 4.5% and Alberta has 3.5%), it's a rather silly idea to destroy jobs through government policy, no?

Another key factor is employment rates... a much more important indictator in my opinion. Ontario's is 63.3%, Alberta's is 71.6% (Saskatchewan's is 67.3%).

Ontario has a long way to go before their productivity and job creation levels reach 'leading' proportions or even middle of the pack. Destroying jobs in a time of need is reckless. I hope those in the welfare lines thank McGuinty for their spot there.

[blueblood]

Enjoy your unemployment Ontario. In a province with 6.3% unemployment (compared to Canada's 6.1%... which is a ridiculous high number to even compare to, the United States has 4.5% and Alberta has 3.5%), it's a rather silly idea to destroy jobs through government policy, no?

Another key factor is employment rates... a much more important indictator in my opinion. Ontario's is 63.3%, Alberta's is 71.6% (Saskatchewan's is 67.3%).

Ontario has a long way to go before their productivity and job creation levels reach 'leading' proportions or even middle of the pack. Destroying jobs in a time of need is reckless. I hope those in the welfare lines thank McGuinty for their spot there.

I find it funny that Saskatchewan's employment rate is that high considering the exodus of people out of that province and the large amount of Status FN there, farmers are going to have one hell of a time finding workers...

[Saturn]

Not good for the Ontario economy. The lost jobs are already there. We don't need these inflationary pressures. The economic disregard at this time of pain is dangerous.

Good for the Ontario economy. Lots of "help wanted" signs around. A decent minimum wage will give a push to some of the welfare crowd to get a job - excellent for government coffers.

[blueblood]

Not good for the Ontario economy. The lost jobs are already there. We don't need these inflationary pressures. The economic disregard at this time of pain is dangerous.

Good for the Ontario economy. Lots of "help wanted" signs around. A decent minimum wage will give a push to some of the welfare crowd to get a job - excellent for government coffers.

Oh boy...I don't know this coming from someone who doesn't believe people are smart enough to spend their paycheques and that people would spend their cheques on beer and popcorn. If it's taxed like how you want it productivity will probably go down, inflation will rise, and that 10 bucks an hour won't have any buying power anymore. Bad idea. Let the market dictate wages.

[madmax]

Good for the Ontario economy. Lots of "help wanted" signs around. A decent minimum wage will give a push to some of the welfare crowd to get a job - excellent for government coffers.

Minimum Wage Jobs in Ontario are not looking for workers. They have plenty to choose from. The increase is to provide something near a living wage for those working for the minimum wage.

Your assumption that the "welfare crowd" will get a job because they will get $10 over $8 is based upon assumptions and most of those will be incorrect. You can guess or speculate but to think that an increase of minimum wage in the next 2 years is going to reduce welfare ranks is wishful thinking to say the least.

[madmax]

Oh boy...I don't know this coming from someone who doesn't believe people are smart enough to spend their paycheques and that people would spend their cheques on beer and popcorn. If it's taxed like how you want it productivity will probably go down, inflation will rise, and that 10 bucks an hour won't have any buying power anymore. Bad idea. Let the market dictate wages.

You don't live in Ontario, but you do wish for a federal government handout to help move your crops. Government interference is good when it suits you.

You talk the talk, but you won't walk the walk.

[Figleaf]

Borg: Glad you got a laugh, man.

Enjoy your unemployment Ontario. In a province with 6.3% unemployment (compared to Canada's 6.1%... which is a ridiculous high number to even compare to, the United States has 4.5% and Alberta has 3.5%), it's a rather silly idea to destroy jobs through government policy, no?

There are two replies to this, one obvious the other less-so perhaps.

First, the obvious -- it is far from settled (except in the minds of ideologues) that minimum wage laws contribute in any substantial way to the unemployment rate.

Second, IF it does contribute to the unemployment rate, it would be by reducing the number of underpaid crap-jobs, and it is quite possible that a society is better off without the worst sort of exploitative labor (even if it does boost unemployment a bit).

[blueblood]

Oh boy...I don't know this coming from someone who doesn't believe people are smart enough to spend their paycheques and that people would spend their cheques on beer and popcorn. If it's taxed like how you want it productivity will probably go down, inflation will rise, and that 10 bucks an hour won't have any buying power anymore. Bad idea. Let the market dictate wages.

You don't live in Ontario, but you do wish for a federal government handout to help move your crops. Government interference is good when it suits you.

You talk the talk, but you won't walk the walk.

Hah research my posts, especially the one concerning the 1B to farmers, I am against that. I am walking pretty fine.

[BZBee]

The minimum wage, isn't enough for the lowest paid people to live on. One suugested I heard today was that Canada or Ontario have a "living wage" were our tax $$, give every working Canadian money to be able to have shelter and food they need it. Rents in this country are out of control, alot of the apartment aren't really fit to live in. I know alot of small business don;t like it but if these people trying to make life better for themselves , especially if they are on welfare, this increase could help over time get some of these people off the welfare and into better paying jobs.

"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime." Chinese proverb. The International Thesaurus of Quotations, ed. Rhoda Thomas Tripp, p. 76, no. 3 (1970).