Achieving a united Atlantic Canadian province

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How can we achieve Atlantic Union?

[geoffrey]

How can we achieve Atlantic Union?

By ending confederation?

[[email protected]]

How can we achieve Atlantic Union?

By ending confederation?

No, the question means a new united province in Canada.

[geoffrey]

No, the question means a new united province in Canada.

Then you need the rest of Canada onside. What are you going to give us? Atlantic Canada isn't really in a high power gimme gimme position right now.

[fellowtraveller]

How much will this cost me, as a non-Atlantic taxpayer?

Please be frank.

[Rue]

How can we achieve Atlantic Union?

The idea was floated and dismissed by the Atlantic provinces who felt they had more advantages remaining as seperate provinces. To argue such a thing you would have to establish how it would be of ecnomic benefit to the provinces and place them in a better position then they are now. I doubt the people of New Brunswick, PEI and Newfoundland will dismantle their provincial governments because the logical place to put the provincial capital of an Atlantic province would be Halifax the largest city in the Atlantic.

I doubt given the regional loyalties you would make it past the above post. I mean as it is you have the people of Cape Breton constantly talking about their own province and Labrador has always felt a strain being associated with Newfoundland as it is.

New Brunswick being bilingual would expect the Atlantic Province to be fully bilingual which is another issue.

More to the point the funding out of such a united province would never get consensus from the provinces who would all fight just like the 12 provinces do now with Canada.

[[email protected]]

How can we achieve Atlantic Union?

The idea was floated and dismissed by the Atlantic provinces who felt they had more advantages remaining as seperate provinces. To argue such a thing you would have to establish how it would be of ecnomic benefit to the provinces and place them in a better position then they are now. I doubt the people of New Brunswick, PEI and Newfoundland will dismantle their provincial governments because the logical place to put the provincial capital of an Atlantic province would be Halifax the largest city in the Atlantic.

I doubt given the regional loyalties you would make it past the above post. I mean as it is you have the people of Cape Breton constantly talking about their own province and Labrador has always felt a strain being associated with Newfoundland as it is.

New Brunswick being bilingual would expect the Atlantic Province to be fully bilingual which is another issue.

More to the point the funding out of such a united province would never get consensus from the provinces who would all fight just like the 12 provinces do now with Canada.

Probably not true. The 1863 discussions would have probably created some kind of Union, but then Confederation came along and the focus shifted.

Here are the benefits:

· A larger, stronger Atlantic Canada with a louder voice with which to speak in Canada, a region of 2.4 Million versus four very small weak provinces.

· A rationalization of government services with lower costs. Why four separate governments in such a small region?

· Economic union to eliminate barriers to trade within the region.

· Comprehensive planning to address region wide issues; the economy, population, marketability.

· Lower debt servicing charges by pooling debts.

· A unified region better able to withstand Quebec separation.

· An opportunity for electoral and political reform.

· The possibility of a federal regional party(s) for the region.

· The status quo; federal handouts, impoverishment, declining populations, and increasing irrelevance is really not an option.

And no one has said anything about where the capital would be, many suggest Moncton or Charlottetown since they are both more central.

There is good reason to think that the federal government and the other provincial governments would approve, since Union helps to create a less dependent Atlantic Canada.

[Saturn]

How can we achieve Atlantic Union?

While replacing the 4 Atlantic provinces with only 1 Atlantic province will be good for the whole country and for the Atlantic provinces in particular, it will not be possible because each of the provinces will claim it will be ripped off by the other three and 3 premiers and many MLAs will lose their jobs and influence. No way in hell they would give up their piece of the pie.

[August1991]

While replacing the 4 Atlantic provinces with only 1 Atlantic province will be good for the whole country and for the Atlantic provinces in particular...

Let's follow that logic. For example, why stop at the four Atlantic provinces? Why not get rid of all the provinces? We could have one government in Canada for the whole country.

But heck, why stop there? Why not just have one government in Washington DC for the whole continent?

[Saturn]

Let's follow that logic. For example, why stop at the four Atlantic provinces? Why not get rid of all the provinces? We could have one government in Canada for the whole country.

Yep, that should be ultimate goal. Now, it would be much better for small provinces because there is far more waste due to provincial governments there.

[August1991]

Curious. Here is a list of the 15 richest countries by GDP per capita (PPP).

1 Luxembourg 69,800

2 Norway 42,364

3 United States 41,399

4 Ireland 40,610

5 Iceland 35,115

6 Denmark 34,740

7 Canada 34,273

8 Hong Kong 33,479

9 Austria 33,432

10 Switzerland 32,571

11 Qatar 31,397

12 Belgium 31,244

13 Finland 31,208

14 Australia 30,897

15 Netherlands 30,862

Luxembourg, the richest, has a population (450,000) less than Newfoundland. Iceland has a population 300,000. Of course Norway is bigger with a population of 4.6 million.

All things considered, I'd say that smaller countries are richer than big countries. By population, Canada is the second largest (after the US) in that list above.

In fact, what is noteworthy about the US and Canada is that they are federal states with most powers held by local governments. The US and Canada are in some ways a series of small countries.

My conclusion is that big government is usually less efficient than small government.

To get back to the thread's title, when a university student in PEI has a problem with his student loan, he phones the person responsible for student loans. In Ontario, the student calls a 1-800 number.

Why would anyone in PEI want to give up that level of service?

[geoffrey]

While that evidence is purely anecdotal August, I tend to agree. Even within Canada, we have an emensely rich province (Alberta), very rich (Ontario, Saskatchewan are above US GDP per capita), some right in the there with the G8 averages (Quebec, British Columbia) and some trailing the developed world (the Maritimes).

I figure giving more power to these regions to develop success internally, rather than relying on others to do it for you, will make all of Canada much better off. Transfering rich to poor just makes things more poor for the rich and perpetually underdeveloped in the provinces getting the transfer cash.

I mean, why bother doing anything if you just get someone else's money if you remain unwilling to change. It all comes down to that.

That's why I fear Federalism. The results are apparent in Canada's horrendous economic regional disparity.

[Posit]

The BNA was intended as a sort of Atlantic Union.

Preamble:

"WHEREAS the Provinces of Canada, Nova Scotia and New Brunswick have expressed their Desire to be federally united into One Dominion under the Crown of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, with a Constitution similar in Principle to that of the United Kingdom:

And whereas such a Union would conduce to the Welfare of the Provinces and promote the Interests of the British Empire:

And whereas on the Establishment of the Union by the Authority of Parliament it is expedient, not only that the Constitution of the Legislative Authority in the Dominion be provided for, but also that the Nature of the Executive Government therein be declared:

And whereas it is expedient that Provision be made for the eventual Admission into the Union of other Parts of British North America: (1) "

The best bet of obtaining a union of Atlantic Provinces would be to renegotiate confederation. Things have changed from that first idea. However, you will need a consensus of all the provinces first t open it up....and then watch out!

[[email protected]]

How can we achieve Atlantic Union?

While replacing the 4 Atlantic provinces with only 1 Atlantic province will be good for the whole country and for the Atlantic provinces in particular, it will not be possible because each of the provinces will claim it will be ripped off by the other three and 3 premiers and many MLAs will lose their jobs and influence. No way in hell they would give up their piece of the pie.

Yes, it would be good for the whole country because it makes it easier for the region to become less dependent.

It is probably also true that the existing entrenched system has little to gain from it, so it has to be championed by some sort of pan-Atlantic Canada grassroots movement.

[geoffrey]

The best bet of obtaining a union of Atlantic Provinces would be to renegotiate confederation. Things have changed from that first idea. However, you will need a consensus of all the provinces first t open it up....and then watch out!

At the time of renegoiation, can we opt out?

[blueblood]

The best bet of obtaining a union of Atlantic Provinces would be to renegotiate confederation. Things have changed from that first idea. However, you will need a consensus of all the provinces first t open it up....and then watch out!

At the time of renegoiation, can we opt out?

I think Saskatchewan and Western Manitoba would join you, maybe eastern BC on top of it.

[geoffrey]

Nah, Saskatchewan has been bought with a massive sum of cash in the budget.

[blueblood]

Nah, Saskatchewan has been bought with a massive sum of cash in the budget.

Calvert was pretty upset with the whole resourse revenue in the equalization formula thing. The richer Sask gets, I think the more upset with eastern canada they will get. Western Manitoba has more in common with Calgary than Winnipeg.

[geoffrey]

Calvert was pretty upset with the whole resourse revenue in the equalization formula thing. The richer Sask gets, I think the more upset with eastern canada they will get. Western Manitoba has more in common with Calgary than Winnipeg.

Having lived in Winnipeg, I certainly hope no other place in the world is like it.

[fellowtraveller]

I wouldn't want either Manitoba or Sakatchewan in any Western State.

Manitoba in particular are worse money sucking, sense-of-entitlement leeches than Quebec or the Maritimes.

[blueblood]

I wouldn't want either Manitoba or Sakatchewan in any Western State.

Manitoba in particular are worse money sucking, sense-of-entitlement leeches than Quebec or the Maritimes.

I said Western Manitoba, IMO Winnipeg is more suited to Ontario. An Alberta style tory gov't will help out, Western MB has oil, wood, and an ag sector on the verge of a boom ready to go, Sask has this too, but Sask also has a very large Status FN problem too.

[jdobbin]

Having lived in Winnipeg, I certainly hope no other place in the world is like it.

When did you live in Winnipeg, Geoffrey?

[jdobbin]

I said Western Manitoba, IMO Winnipeg is more suited to Ontario. An Alberta style tory gov't will help out, Western MB has oil, wood, and an ag sector on the verge of a boom ready to go, Sask has this too, but Sask also has a very large Status FN problem too.

One of the reasons why Manitoba and Saskatchewan have not done a lot better in the last decade is because of agriculture. If indeed it is a good year (and so much is dependent on the weather), the better it is for both provinces.

[fellowtraveller]

"I said Western Manitoba, IMO Winnipeg is more suited to Ontario."

The financial position of Manitoba in our federation is most akin to Newfoundland.

Since the province has ample natural resources, cheap power and an educated workforce(referring to those who have not left so they can be employed), the only obvious reason remaining for their unending reliance on other provinces largesse boils down to: management. Rather , lack of management.

[geoffrey]

When did you live in Winnipeg, Geoffrey?

Mid-80's. I was very young, don't remember much, but I visit occassionally.