Disolve Unecessary Governments

[iamcanadian2]

Much of Canada has too many redundant layers of government:

1) Local Municipal

2) Regional Municipal

3) Provincial

4) Federal

This was required decades ago before the advent of Computers.

ALL ORGANIZATIONS have down-sized since and computerizes to the max to eliminate reduntant spending on bureaucracy, except Government. It has SUPERSIZED instead into a collective maassive waste of most of the peoples money and resources making Canada the most wastefull government structure on the PLANET.

We are lucky to get 2Cents on the Dollar spent in actual delivered services we see, feel and need. The rest 98% is intentionally wasted.

[jbg]

Government should, to the maximum extent, be close to the people, which means Ottawa shouldn't do everything. There are some functions bigger government, such as Ottawa or the provinces, are needed for. Since, in a country as big and diverse as Canada, "one size doesn't fit all", these layers are, by and large, needed.

[iamcanadian2]

Government should, to the maximum extent, be close to the people, which means Ottawa shouldn't do everything. There are some functions bigger government, such as Ottawa or the provinces, are needed for. Since, in a country as big and diverse as Canada, "one size doesn't fit all", these layers are, by and large, needed.

We can do with just two governments. A small local munucipal government that the people can attend on in Town Hall like arangements and a Federal government for the larger issues and services.

The Regions are completely redundant and serve no good purpose and are there only to intetionally waste public money outside of scrutiny.

The Provinces have made themselves completly redundant by downloading spending and responsibility to the municipal level and wash their hands like Pontious Pilot on what the municipalities do.

Provincial Government serves pomp and circumstance to an bicker with municipal and federal levels in front of the public to take blame and distract away from the attrocities done in the name of public interest, which is basically all a sham.

[Posit]

If we just reverted to two governments it wouldn't be much different. Very likely government would be bloated even more than it is now.

As one federal government there would be a need to divide the administration and government down into territories, districts, regions, and finally municipalities with over lapping jurisdictions. With less government comes less opportunity for the electorate to participate in the government, to scrutinize politics in general, or to understand how the system works, since it would be buried in layers of administrative bureaucracy. At least with the fed-prov-reg-munic. systems voters get a chance to questions some of the politicians about local issues. With a strong federal system the politicians become centralized and untouchable, which opens the door for more corruption and incompetent decisions.

[Topaz]

I think get rid of regional, split the provincial and Federal, with provinces taking on all social programs and healthcare etc. The Feds should only deal with the real important programs like the military, etc and keep the local gov'ts.

[Wilber]

Posit has got it.

The governments which have the most affect on our daily lives, the most accessible and accountable are the ones closest to home, municipal and provincial. The last thing I want is to have even more control over my life given to the least accessible and least accountable, the federal government.

[Figleaf]

I would say, keep the federal government, split up/shrink the provinces, ditch the regional, and push local government down to being even more local.

[iamcanadian2]

Posit has got it.

The governments which have the most affect on our daily lives, the most accessible and accountable are the ones closest to home, municipal and provincial. The last thing I want is to have even more control over my life given to the least accessible and least accountable, the federal government.

The layer most inaccessable to the people is Regional. No one is directly and soly ellected to that level and they govern by proxy without any leader or party to blame for anything.

Everyone can pass the buck on blame at that level with no one being responsible for anything no one can be blamed.

At this level we have rule by the bureacracy only since there is no one to blame for what they do with the public trust and responsibility and are completly outside of controls or public scrutiny.

“Bureaucracy, the rule of no one, has become the modern form of despotism.”

Mary McCarthy

[daniel]

Any changes to Federal/Provincial relationships would be contrary to the BNA Act and would need another referendum to change the constitution.

But since we're just throwing around ideas, how about only ONE government. Each riding would be represented by ONE MP who holds office for 4-5 years. That MP would be responsible for everything from pot-holes and garbage pick-up on your street to being your representative for international issues such as trade, military, and foregin relations. In effect, make him/her king of your riding for all issues.

[Mad_Michael]

Much of Canada has too many redundant layers of government:

1) Local Municipal

2) Regional Municipal

3) Provincial

4) Federal

This was required decades ago before the advent of Computers.

ALL ORGANIZATIONS have down-sized since and computerizes to the max to eliminate reduntant spending on bureaucracy, except Government. It has SUPERSIZED instead into a collective maassive waste of most of the peoples money and resources making Canada the most wastefull government structure on the PLANET.

We are lucky to get 2Cents on the Dollar spent in actual delivered services we see, feel and need. The rest 98% is intentionally wasted.

The problem here is a difficult one. Centralised government in Ottawa is the most efficient, but also the least effective.

Our local town halls, municipalities and local councils are the most effective, but least efficient.

Which do you want? Government that is efficient/ineffective or inefficient/effective?

Anything in between the local and the national level is just a pig-trough.

[iamcanadian2]

Any changes to Federal/Provincial relationships would be contrary to the BNA Act and would need another referendum to change the constitution.

But since we're just throwing around ideas, how about only ONE government. Each riding would be represented by ONE MP who holds office for 4-5 years. That MP would be responsible for everything from pot-holes and garbage pick-up on your street to being your representative for international issues such as trade, military, and foregin relations. In effect, make him/her king of your riding for all issues.

This would be the most effective / efficient system.

Democracy, at a fundamental level, only replaces the ABSOLUTE RULE OF A KING with person that is elected by the people subject to the RULE and makes them easy to remove after a short finite period of time (4 or 5 years).

This is required because....

I cannot accept, your canon that we are to judge pope and king unlike other men, with a favorable presumption that they do no wrong. If there is any presumption, it is the other way against holders of power ... Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

....and for this reason people with power need to be very easy to disbar from holding power to prevent it from corrupting them after a period of time.

[Wilber]

The layer most inaccessable to the people is Regional. No one is directly and soly ellected to that level and they govern by proxy without any leader or party to blame for anything.

I agree that the regional level of government presents some problems that others don't because of the way they are constructed but they are still very important when it comes to coordinating things that concern all those involved such as transit and policing.

The feds download to the provinces, the provinces download to the regions and municipalities and the municipalities end up having to download to property and business owners because the other levels of government control almost all other taxation. The buck stops at the municipality.

The more senior the level of government, the less access a citizen has to it and as a result, the less accountable it needs to be. A senior level of government will always download transfers to a junior level before it reduces its own spending. Because it can.

[madmax]

I like the part about efficient and effective and the arguments with regards to downsizing possibly creating more bloated government.

I was just thinking, we could still abolish the Senate, save money, and it wouldn't affect a single thing in our lives.

[iamcanadian2]

...the arguments with regards to downsizing possibly creating more bloated government.

...sounds like an Oxymoron.

Downsizing government causes the government to bloat? Duhhh

[madmax]

...sounds like an Oxymoron.

That's correct

Downsizing government causes the government to bloat? Duhhh

I could use the better term PIG TROUGH

So you want to keep the Senate or Not?

[iamcanadian2]

I could use the better term PIG TROUGH

I though this is what we have now with all the different layers to feed from.

So you want to keep the Senate or Not?

The Senate should be elected and have power to represent the people.

Canada has too few people elected to represent the people. Canada trusts too much in the integrity of people that are in power for generations and are never elected and who care not who is elected since they treat them like their puppets regardless and in fact have little honour and even less integrity.

We have no effective elected representatives of the people as a result.

[Saturn]

Much of Canada has too many redundant layers of government:

1) Local Municipal

2) Regional Municipal

3) Provincial

4) Federal

Couldn't agree more. Federal and municipal is all we really need. The rest is fat.

[geoffrey]

Couldn't agree more. Federal and municipal is all we really need. The rest is fat.

Much of the Federal government's job is to just give money to provinces to spend. Let's cut the Fed, consolidate all power in the provinces and have a joint defense/foreign policy fund. Done deal.

[Saturn]

Couldn't agree more. Federal and municipal is all we really need. The rest is fat.

Much of the Federal government's job is to just give money to provinces to spend. Let's cut the Fed, consolidate all power in the provinces and have a joint defense/foreign policy fund. Done deal.

I guess you mean split up and act like NATO or something? I'd prefer to keep Canada together and get rid of the provinces but the other way will work too, there will be 10 federal governments then - no provincial, no regional.

[Wilber]

I think we are stuck with something like the status quo. I'm not prepared to give up all regional or provincial representation solely to a central government dominated by a population center on the other side of the country. Provincial powers are the closest thing we have to checks and balances in our federal system. I think Geoffrey's version of federal powers would mean the end of the country as we know it. There is no guarantee that all the provinces would form alliances with each other. Some might prefer the US or none at all. On the other hand there is no way I would want to give the federal government more powers than they already have. It collects the majority of tax dollars and we have the less control over where they go than with any other level of government.

[B. Max]

Much of the Federal government's job is to just give money to provinces to spend. Let's cut the Fed, consolidate all power in the provinces and have a joint defense/foreign policy fund. Done deal.

Works for me. Even that that would be left would need to have its powers well defined and limited.

[jbg]

Canada trusts too much in the integrity of people that are in power for generations and are never elected and who care not who is elected since they treat them like their puppets regardless and in fact have little honour and even less integrity.

I just finished reading Seymour Martin Lipset's book about US-Canadian distinctions called Continental Divide. It was excellent.

One of the points it made was that Canada, unlike the US, has a Tory tradition (spanning both Left and Right) of deference to authority and higher class. The US, be contrast, has little use for either.

[PolyNewbie]

jbg:One of the points it made was that Canada, unlike the US, has a Tory tradition (spanning both Left and Right) of deference to authority and higher class.

That is exactly what makes the Canadian legal profession very different from the US legal profession. In Canada the rules of professional conduct are more like suggestions, in the USA there can be real consequences for violating them.

[dlkenny]

Much of Canada has too many redundant layers of government:

1) Local Municipal

2) Regional Municipal

3) Provincial

4) Federal

This was required decades ago before the advent of Computers.

ALL ORGANIZATIONS have down-sized since and computerizes to the max to eliminate reduntant spending on bureaucracy, except Government. It has SUPERSIZED instead into a collective maassive waste of most of the peoples money and resources making Canada the most wastefull government structure on the PLANET.

We are lucky to get 2Cents on the Dollar spent in actual delivered services we see, feel and need. The rest 98% is intentionally wasted.

Hooray, I'm so happy to hear someone else with this opinion!!! I've been saying this for years with respect to healthcare. Healthcare specifically costs taxpayers in the neighbourhood of $7000 a year for every man, woman and child in Canada. The costs of healthcare delivery reportedly costs about $5700 per person in Canada. The difference is $1300 and is spent largely on unnecessary bureaucracy. This is the same in many programs and the truth is that conservative governments for decades have been coming in and immediately making cuts to less than necessary bureaucratic spending. I think we should downsize the public service, automate as much as is practicable and we should cut out the wasteful spending. If we did this we could have a very promising future in publicly delivered healthcare, education and defense; in addition I think that would give the prospect of some serious tax cuts for individuals.

[guyser]

Healthcare specifically costs taxpayers in the neighbourhood of $7000 a year for every man, woman and child in Canada. The costs of healthcare delivery reportedly costs about $5700 per person in Canada.

Actually it is $4411 per person.

Maybe we could have a US style of healthcare....no wait, they spend $5635. I meant Turkey, they spend $513.