Is it time for our charter to be re-ratified

[Leafless]

The original charter mandate has been so greatly exceeded that it has established, what can be best described as single party rule.

In other words the liberals pursual of socialistic ideologies, involving the charter, has turned or transformed Canada into a country that is next to state controlled.

The stacking of the Senate, federal courts and charter interpretations have made it impossible for other political parties primarily the traditional Conservatives to implement changes beneficial to the country to deal with important issues.

Has the time come to re-ratify our charter before it is to late and allow immature rule to destroy the country?

[Leafless]

Here is an article of interest why we must take Canada back:

http://takingcanadaback.ca/betrayed.php

[madmax]

Here is an article of interest why we must take Canada back:

Really?

It looks like Steven Harper is committed to this selloff of Canada. I had held off posting about this in the hopes that Mr Harper would have some additional thoughts to say, perhaps an explanation, but apparently not. So I have to conclude that Steven Harper is continuing this devestation of a once proud country.

I agree.

[madmax]

The original charter mandate has been so greatly exceeded that it has established, what can be best described as single party rule.

Nonsense

In other words the liberals pursual of socialistic ideologies, involving the charter, has turned or transformed Canada into a country that is next to state controlled.

You have that reversed. Individual Rights and Freedoms limit State Control.

The stacking of the Senate, federal courts and charter interpretations have made it impossible for other political parties primarily the traditional Conservatives to implement changes beneficial to the country to deal with important issues.

What a scheme! Everything is against Conservatives. I think you are paranoid. These things were going on long before the charter. The Conservatives have always been players of the system. They just haven't managed to hold the reigns of power the last 13 years. Can't see the need to change a system Conservatives can play.

Has the time come to re-ratify our charter before it is to late and allow immature rule to destroy the country?

I only want to see the Senate Abolished. A useless institution. But to open up a constitutional can of worms for that , isn't worth the problems that come with it.

Governments can run this country with the controls and limitations in place quite effectively. I remember Mulroney getting involved with the Constitution.

This is something to stay away from with a ten foot pole. There are better things governments can be doing for us, rather then claim how hard done by they are by the current system.

[Leafless]

What a scheme! Everything is against Conservatives. I think you are paranoid. These things were going on long before the charter. The Conservatives have always been players of the system. They just haven't managed to hold the reigns of power the last 13 years. Can't see the need to change a system Conservatives can play.

Money on the table says you will never see the Conservatives with a majority government with a PM from outside Quebec.

That's how wrapped up it is!

[jdobbin]

The stacking of the Senate, federal courts and charter interpretations have made it impossible for other political parties primarily the traditional Conservatives to implement changes beneficial to the country to deal with important issues.

Has the time come to re-ratify our charter before it is to late and allow immature rule to destroy the country?

What traditional conservatives do you mean?

I thought the September 11 conspiracy theory people were out there. This pretty much passes them by.

[geoffrey]

That link, the Taking Canada Back one, so full of it.

The Nationalist argument is pretty much right up there with the best of them in the irrational category.

The anti-free trade (selling off Canadian jobs!) or the anti-foreign workers (again, selling off Canadian jobs!) are silly. If someone else can do it better, why not? I'm not addicted to some only in Canada craze. Our ultimate goal should be the maximization of all the resources we have, and we can't do that in our own little bubble. Canada is part of a much bigger world, and our treaties and alliances with other countries, especially the United States and Europe is what makes us strong.

We'll become a better place to live if we reach out more, open up our country. It may mean becoming less Canadian (whatever that means), but it's the only way to go. Or we can continue the nationalism, close ourselves to the world and become obsessed with ourselves.

I don't like the Charter myself, I think it tries to do the impossible and force tolerance upon others. It does indeed give alot of power to criminals, but I don't mind having a high bar set for our justice system... as long as that bar doesn't become so high that convictions are impossible.

That website has the ideas of some of the 50-60 year old PC crowd and it's ideas are about that old too. Get us out of NAFTA, all the similar ideas of the NDP leftists yet let us have our guns like the hardline Reformers. Really, we have the Creditists. Fantastic, just what Canada needs, political neanderthals leading us.

Outdated ideas. We need to start looking at ourselves at individuals and not Canadians. Nationalism is dead (outside of the CBC), and I'd love to see it stay that way.

I wonder if Leafless agrees with this statement in their letter to Harper:

A recent poll conducted by an analyst for JMCK Communications Inc., when the Liberal Party was still in power, showed that combined support for increased provincial power and total separation in Alberta already sits at 60%. Albertans and all Canadians must understand that the power in Canada now resides in Alberta, not central Canada, and that Alberta must lead in setting policy going forward.

As one of the biggest advocates for increased representation from Alberta... including Canada moving to Alberta style economic policies... even I don't believe that. Sure, Albertans give more than everyone else, but for Alberta to be the sole power, ugh.

[Borg]

I believe it was the Western Standard that interviewed the surviving founding members of the charter - that worthless piece of shit paper.

In the article the founding writers admitted there were many changes they would have made in order to prevent it from being used in a method that they have not intended.

It was an interesting read and is probably available via the Western Standard archives.

An eye opener.

Borg

[Saturn]

Here is an article of interest why we must take Canada back:

http://takingcanadaback.ca/betrayed.php

LOL! That's loooooney.

[geoffrey]

LOL! That's loooooney.

One of the few times I'll agree with you.

[B. Max]

Is it time for our charter to be re-ratified

No, scrapped.

[jbg]

Is it time for our charter to be re-ratified

No, scrapped.

Rewritten, with the qualifications of freedoms removed, and the "language" provisions erased. Further, the notwithstanding clause should not apply to speech or democratic rights. In other words, Anglophone Quebeckers should have all of the rights of Canadians.

[geoffrey]

Further, the notwithstanding clause should not apply to speech or democratic rights.

33. (1) Parliament or the legislature of a province may expressly declare in an Act of Parliament or of the legislature, as the case may be, that the Act or a provision thereof shall operate notwithstanding a provision included in section 2 or sections 7 to 15 of this Charter.

Trudeau beat you to not applying it to democratic rights. I think the NWC should not apply to section 2 as well. The reasoning by allowing the NWC to be used with section 2 doesn't really make any sense to me.

[jbg]

Further, the notwithstanding clause should not apply to speech or democratic rights.

33. (1) Parliament or the legislature of a province may expressly declare in an Act of Parliament or of the legislature, as the case may be, that the Act or a provision thereof shall operate notwithstanding a provision included in section 2 or sections 7 to 15 of this Charter.

Trudeau beat you to not applying it to democratic rights. I think the NWC should not apply to section 2 as well. The reasoning by allowing the NWC to be used with section 2 doesn't really make any sense to me.

It was late and my eyes were beary at the time. You're quite right.

[Leafless]

Is it time for our charter to be re-ratified

No, scrapped.

That more than likely, would be the end result.

Especially when Section 27 reads: "This Charter shall be interpreted in a manner consistent with the preservation and enhancement of the multicultural heritage of Canada."

This gives the federal government of the day a tremendous amount of power (with the distinct possibility of abuse) to manipulate favourable cultural preferences in favour of further bolstering status of minorities that could actually exceed the status of the majority.

This could equate to the same outcome as a civil war but without a single shot being fired in favour of minorities with the primary minority being Quebec.

[B. Max]

This gives the federal government of the day a tremendous amount of power (with the distinct possibility of abuse) to manipulate favourable cultural preferences in favour of further bolstering status of minorities that could actually exceed the status of the majority.

It's really not a bill of rights at all, but rather a blueprint for social engineering. Reform had it right from the beginning when they called for it to be scrapped.

[Leafless]

It's really not a bill of rights at all, but rather a blueprint for social engineering. Reform had it right from the beginning when they called for it to be scrapped.

If this is the final stage of social engineering, why is it political parties continue to play this corrupt game, when it is obvious there is no chance in hell to win on a more democratic platform that serves the interest of Canadians at large?

Political parties cannot continue to sell out to minorities.

[B. Max]

If this is the final stage of social engineering, why is it political parties continue to play this corrupt game, when it is obvious there is no chance in hell to win on a more democratic platform that serves the interest of Canadians at large?

Political parties cannot continue to sell out to minorities.

Take a look at the original bill of rights. They were off to a good start until Trudeau bastardized the entire exercise with the charter of wrongs and special rights.

Pay special attention to the preamble, the most important part, and this in particular :

And being desirous of enshrining these principles and the human rights and fundamental freedoms derived from them, in a Bill of Rights which shall reflect the respect of Parliament for its constitutional authority and which shall ensure the protection of these rights and freedoms in Canada:

This section stipulates that government must respect fundamental rights and freedoms, and if they didn't understand that, it further stipulates that government is restricted only that power which the constitution gives them.

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/showdoc/cs/C-12.3///en?page=1

[Leafless]

For Charter rights to be limited, the limits must meet three requirements:

1.-They must be reasonable in a free and democratic society.

2.-They must be 'prescribed by law'.

3.-They must be demonstrably justified.

How can Charter laws even be applicable in a 'free and democratic society' without including input from Canadian citizens.

The pure nature of the Charter itself is undemocratic.

Or how can Charter rights be be demonstrably justified when there is no written legislation or control devise such as with the case of bilingualism in the federal public service which is proving to be an employment haven for francophone's while grossly discriminating against users of the common commercial language of Canada, English.

The Charter could be seen as totally fraudulent and works directly against democracy.

Which begs the question: '.'How can any political party accept the terms and conditions of this draconian document and actually participate in this fraudulent undemocratic political process?'

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Canadian_Cons...ts_and_Freedoms

[Catchme]

Let's just to the chase here, what rights and freedoms do you feel need to be re-ratified??

What rights need changing?

[jbg]

Let's just to the chase here, what rights and freedoms do you feel need to be re-ratified??

What rights need changing?

What is needed first, are judges that do their jobs, i.e. apply the law as it exists, not as their Liberal appointers would like them to. Then and only then, when the judiciary becomes neutral, a check on parliamentary authority, scrap the "limitations" on rights and the "notwithstanding" clause, particularly as it applies to rights.

I would also scrap the provisions relating to language rights, and multicult rights.

[Argus]

Has the time come to re-ratify our charter before it is to late and allow immature rule to destroy the country?

The Charter would never be ratified as it now stands. That's a plain and simple fact. Some of the aspects of the Charter which were "read in" by judges would be opposed by too many provinces.

[Posit]

The judges ARE doing their jobs - free from political interference. What you are suggesting is that the government interfere with the judicial and strike down any conviction you don't agree with. Seems to me that this in itself is promoting the use of the Charter to infringe upon the rights of the accused to an impartial hearing.

And to repeat the fact that judges are doing their jobs, there is no possible way - even by appointment of Conservative supporting judges - to alter the judicial outcomes. The law system runs independently of the government and the determination of guilt or innocence has no political overtones. Even the sentencing prescribed by law have no bearing since it is the judicial that determines what is reasonable. Save for mandatory sentences, a judge would rather sentence the accused to a lesser crime than to un"reasonably" incarcerate a convicted person more than what is warranted.

I see nothing wrong with that part of the system so my vote would be for you and the right wingnuts to butt out of the Charter. You couldn't hope to succeed with a Charter amendment on that basis because your point is UN"reasonable"

[jbg]

The judges ARE doing their jobs - free from political interference. What you are suggesting is that the government interfere with the judicial and strike down any conviction you don't agree with. Seems to me that this in itself is promoting the use of the Charter to infringe upon the rights of the accused to an impartial hearing.

SSM? Striking down of security certificates? Come on. Those are best left to the political, not judicial, sphere.

[Leafless]

Let's just to the chase here, what rights and freedoms do you feel need to be re-ratified??

What rights need changing?

Section 1. "Guarantees of rights and Freedoms" applied to various sections of the Charter depending on interpretation of various sections of the charter, is improperly defined and open for abuse and worst of all overrides democratic rights which is given a back seat to charter rights.

Section 3. "Democratic Rights" also have NO real definition in Canada relating to Canadians 'forming laws of the land' or being part of the process concerning 'constitutional laws, such as the Charter itself.

Canada never fought pertaining to its constitution claiming this country,but was given the Canadian constitution by Britain. Therefore ALL Canadians should be part of the legal process concerning ANY CONSTITIONAL CHANGE as the federal government should have no right to do this unilaterally without the citizens of Canada.

Trudeau and the Liberals thought they had exclusive right to our constitution (and took that right) after they repatriated it from Britain.

Section 15. "Equality Rights is open to abuse when bounced off of other rights.

Section 16. "Official Languages"is subject to abuse and improper interpretation.

But the whole problem with the Charter is "Minority Rights" is integrated with basic Charter rights which it feeds off of it.

IOW the Charter is designed primarily for minorities rather than ALL Canadians which could be seen as a fraudulent document.

This creates a huge democratic deficit as their are numerous other ways to attend to the requirement of minorities with the creation of a very complicated document (without safe guards) to attack existing rights of Canadian citizens.