Posit Posted February 23, 2007 Report Posted February 23, 2007 I picked this up from another site.... In remembrance of the abuses and injustices suffered by our people, and in consideration of the 1 year anniversary (and still no settlement) of the reclamation of Kanehstaton, I encourage all aboriginal people, and all supporters of Six Nations to wear arm bands, tie bows or display a red ribbon on your lapel on February 28, 2007. It is unconscionable that we must continue to be ignored and subject to the trickery of Canada's negotiation team as they delay, obfuscate and refuse honest negotiations. I would suggest that ribbons and bows can be made from any material, red cloth or duct tape - the latter being most appropriate due to the patchwork approach Canada takes to legitimate land claims and native rights issue. Let's all remember to wear / display our ribbons and bows and educate non-natives of the legal and moral responsibility the governments owes Six Nations as allies of the Crown! I henceforth declare and proclaim February 28 from this point on as Six Nations Reclamation Day! Quote
jbg Posted February 23, 2007 Report Posted February 23, 2007 Is there anything in what you want that doesn't start with cultural segregation and subsidies? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
geoffrey Posted February 23, 2007 Report Posted February 23, 2007 I won't support subversive force in my country unfortunately. If they want some ancient entitlement, they can do it through the courts, that's what civilized folks do. Quote RealRisk.ca - (Latest Post: Prosecutors have no "Skin in the Game") --
Posit Posted February 23, 2007 Author Report Posted February 23, 2007 The courts can't arbitrate international agreements. The dispute is between Canada and the Six Nations, whom have been recognized by the government and the courts as sovereign allies, not subjects. I wonder how we would have fared had Canada taken the US to Superior Court over the softwood lumber dispute over NAFTA? Quote
Argus Posted February 23, 2007 Report Posted February 23, 2007 The courts can't arbitrate international agreements. The dispute is between Canada and the Six Nations, whom have been recognized by the government and the courts as sovereign allies, not subjects. I wonder how we would have fared had Canada taken the US to Superior Court over the softwood lumber dispute over NAFTA? You guys are never going to get your way until you get off welfare. Any agreement which contains "And the white people must pay all our bills forever" is never gonna fly. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Posit Posted February 23, 2007 Author Report Posted February 23, 2007 Speaking of welfare...where do you think all the lands and all the resources for your industry came from? Maybe you should educate yourself about Six Nations, rather than wallow in your petty prejudices and ignorant assumptions. One Six Nations' business alone contributed over $160 million to the Canadian tax base last year. There are more doing the same. That's more than $100 million more than Six Nations received in the same period in transfers and services. Maybe YOU should get off the pubic teet and get a real job. Quote
August1991 Posted February 23, 2007 Report Posted February 23, 2007 One Six Nations' business alone contributed over $160 million to the Canadian tax base last year.Link? Quote
Riverwind Posted February 23, 2007 Report Posted February 23, 2007 One Six Nations' business alone contributed over $160 million to the Canadian tax base last year.Link?Actually, I have debunked this claim in another thread. Six Nations runs a cigarette plant and they sell the cigarettes in Canada. Canada levies an excise tax that is paid by the consumer when they buy cigarettes. However, Six Nations refuses to collect this excise tax from consumers when they purchase cigarettes on the reserve. The Government told Six Nations that they would shut down the tobacco plant if they did not collect the excise tax from consumers. In order to create the illusion that Canadian tax law does not apply on the Six Nations reserve, the Grand River Tobacco company 'volunteered' to pay a special corporate tax that is equal the excise that that should be paid on cigarettes. This excise tax is the source of the $160 million figure.IOW - it is rediculous to claim that 'Six Nations' pays $160 million in taxes a year since it is the purchasers of cigarattes that pay the tax - not Six Nations. Quote To fly a plane, you need both a left wing and a right wing.
Posit Posted February 23, 2007 Author Report Posted February 23, 2007 Grand River Tobacco company 'volunteered' to pay a special corporate tax.... Like I said "One Six Nations' business alone contributed over $160 million to the Canadian tax base last year." Thanks for your support! Quote
Riverwind Posted February 23, 2007 Report Posted February 23, 2007 Grand River Tobacco company 'volunteered' to pay a special corporate tax....Like I said "One Six Nations' business alone contributed over $160 million to the Canadian tax base last year."As I said. You are grossly misrepresenting facts by claiming that Six Nations 'pays' that tax. Six Nations is collecting that tax from off reserve purchasers of cigarrettes on behalf of the government. The people that 'pay' the tax are the people that buy cigarrettes from the Grand River Tabacco Company. Quote To fly a plane, you need both a left wing and a right wing.
margrace Posted February 23, 2007 Report Posted February 23, 2007 Going round and round denying aren't you. $160 million is just that no matter who pays it. First you want to cut any benefits and then you deny that they pay taxes, get a life. Quote
Argus Posted February 23, 2007 Report Posted February 23, 2007 Speaking of welfare...where do you think all the lands and all the resources for your industry came from? Let me guess: Natives built them?One Six Nations' business alone contributed over $160 million to the Canadian tax base last year. And what business was that? Cigarette smuggling? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted February 23, 2007 Report Posted February 23, 2007 Going round and round denying aren't you. $160 million is just that no matter who pays it. First you want to cut any benefits and then you deny that they pay taxes, get a life. I think you have an astounding lack of undertanding of what "contributes" means. Collecting money from people in return for cigarettes is not "contributing" anything. In fact, IMO, nothing about cigarettes contributes to our economy in any way. Rather the opposite. Now if we were selling them abroad that money would be a contribution. But you're not creating anything. You're not building anything. You're not producing anything. You are not contributing to the economy. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Posit Posted February 23, 2007 Author Report Posted February 23, 2007 Six Nations is collecting that tax from off reserve purchasers of cigarrettes on behalf of the government. Nope!. Six Nations does not collect ANY TAXES from ANYONE! The are not agents of the Canadian government. The "excise" taxes are paid out of the GRE profits. Anyone can go to the reserve and purchase goods tax free. It is up to the government...and of course the average Canadian's honesty...to declare the purchase and pay tax themselves. Like I said earlier. Learn a little bit about Six Nations before you propose to criticize them. You'll find that your prejudices are completely unwarranted. Quote
Riverwind Posted February 23, 2007 Report Posted February 23, 2007 Nope!. Six Nations does not collect ANY TAXES from ANYONE! The are not agents of the Canadian government. The "excise" taxes are paid out of the GRE profits.I already explained that this is a pile of BS. The GRE is supposed to be collecting excise taxes but refuses to do so. When the feds told them that they would be shut down unless they collected the excise tax so GRE negotiated the compromise which you describe. The fact that GRE negotiated a compromise does not change the principal that the taxes are coming from the people purchasing the cigarattes and not from GRE. It is rediculous to claim that the excise taxes are 'contributions' by Six Nations. Quote To fly a plane, you need both a left wing and a right wing.
Posit Posted February 23, 2007 Author Report Posted February 23, 2007 Sovereign nations do not collect taxes for a Crown corporation. So Six Nations has been recognized not only by the Federal negotiator as being sovereign, but also by the Governor General and Supreme Court of Canada. Six Nations has been explaining that they were sovereign for centuries and finally (in the last couple of months) Canadian officials are finally agreeing. So no Six Nations is not supposed to do "anything" that Canada wants, except by way of the principles of the Covenant Chain. GRE gifted Canada the monies in lieu of excise taxes to avoid being tied up in seizures and in Canadian courts explaining the nation to nation relationship. The did not collect taxes on tobacco from anyone. However your argument is moot. GRE PAID $160 million into the tax system and Six Nations only received about $65 million in transfers and services. Looks like they are up on Canada by nearly $100 millioni for last year alone. Quote
Riverwind Posted February 23, 2007 Report Posted February 23, 2007 Sovereign nations do not collect taxes for a Crown corporation. So Six Nations has been recognized not only by the Federal negotiator as being sovereign.If six nations was really 'sovereign' there would be customs booths on the border and all excise taxes would be paid as goods crossed the border. The only reason GRE is paying anything is because they are bound by the laws of Canada - if that was not the case GRE would have refused to negotiate at all. However your argument is moot. GRE PAID $160 million into the tax system and Six Nations only received about $65 million in transfers and services. Looks like they are up on Canada by nearly $100 millioni for last year alone.A 100% false statement for the reasons I indicated. The money collected in tobacco excise taxes does not belong to GRE in the first place and therefore cannot be counted as contributions to the federal government. You can try to manipulate facts as much as you want but taxation law is clear: excise taxes collected by companies cannot be reported as revenue by those companies. Doing so amounts to fraud. Quote To fly a plane, you need both a left wing and a right wing.
Posit Posted February 23, 2007 Author Report Posted February 23, 2007 Let me make sure that this is clear. THERE WERE NO TAXES COLLECTED BY GRE ON ANY TOBACCO PRODUCTS! Is that loud enough for your. THERE IS NO OBLIGATION UPON A SOVEREIGN NATION TO COLLECT TAXES FOR A CROWN CORPORATION LIKE CANADA! How's that? The point is that Six Nations gave Canada, $160 million and only received $65 million back. Seems a tad disproportionate don't you think? And just before you get off on another of your ignorant tirades, there is no obligation for Six Nations to pay on behalf of any other First Nations. Six Nations is a sovereign ally of the Crown. Besides Canada isn't even a country. The DOJ can't produce a legal definition of what Canada is, or its boundaries under which it claims. Essentially, according to Crown law, the Provinces are sovereign entities and Canada is nothing more than a Corporation with the provinces as partners. That puts Six Nations and other Crown treaty nations on the same footing. Quote
Riverwind Posted February 23, 2007 Report Posted February 23, 2007 Let me make sure that this is clear. THERE WERE NO TAXES COLLECTED BY GRE ON ANY TOBACCO PRODUCTS! Is that loud enough for your. THERE IS NO OBLIGATION UPON A SOVEREIGN NATION TO COLLECT TAXES FOR A CROWN CORPORATION LIKE CANADA! How's that?Then why is the GRE paying all those extra taxes? As a reserve based business GRE is supposed to be exempt from tax.The answer is obvious: GRE is legally REQUIRED to collect those excise taxes because Six Nations is part of Canada and subject to Canadian law. Unlike other tobacco companies the GRE wanted to pretend that it does not collect excise taxes for the Canadian government so it negotiated a mechanism to pay those taxes directly to the government. However, the fact that the government allowed some flexibility does not change the fact that GRE is collecting excise taxes on behalf of the Canadian government. Quote To fly a plane, you need both a left wing and a right wing.
PolyNewbie Posted February 23, 2007 Report Posted February 23, 2007 Posit:Speaking of welfare...where do you think all the lands and all the resources for your industry came from? Maybe you should educate yourself about Six Nations, rather than wallow in your petty prejudices and ignorant assumptions. You ask way too much from this crowd. They are mostly just government apologists that have no idea what they are talking about on almost all matters. Quote Support the troops. Bring them home. Let the bankers fight their own wars. www.infowars.com Watch 911 Mysteries at http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8172271955308136871 "By the time the people wake up to see the bars around them, the door will have already slammed shut." Texx Mars
Argus Posted February 23, 2007 Report Posted February 23, 2007 Going round and round denying aren't you. $160 million is just that no matter who pays it. First you want to cut any benefits and then you deny that they pay taxes, get a life. The originality of your insults is only exceeded by the originality of your thinking. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted February 23, 2007 Report Posted February 23, 2007 Let me make sure that this is clear. THERE WERE NO TAXES COLLECTED BY GRE ON ANY TOBACCO PRODUCTS! Is that loud enough for your. THERE IS NO OBLIGATION UPON A SOVEREIGN NATION TO COLLECT TAXES FOR A CROWN CORPORATION LIKE CANADA! How's that? And yet... they do. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Posit Posted February 23, 2007 Author Report Posted February 23, 2007 GRE IS NOT collecting taxes. Period. Quote
White Doors Posted February 23, 2007 Report Posted February 23, 2007 GRE IS NOT collecting taxes. Period. Treaty Indian or Metis "nations" are not sovereign or 'Nations' in any legal regards. fact. Quote Those Dern Rednecks done outfoxed the left wing again.~blueblood~
Posit Posted February 23, 2007 Author Report Posted February 23, 2007 Better check your facts again. Canada is not a nation. It has no authority even over Treaty Nations. Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.