RCMP Concludes Income Trusts Investigation

[jdobbin]

Harper says he won't apologize to Goodale.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/070216/...r_income_trusts

He is kind of re-writing history here. He was blaming Goodale directly for the leak and linking him directly to criminal behaviour.

Even people in the financial businesses are not doing that.

[madmax]

If he was irresponsible and foolish and leaked the info, which he did in his e-mail quite clearly to someone with any sense, then he did break the law.

Now Geoffrey. He only emailed a banker IIRC. What would a banker care about income trusts. Really it was just idle chit chat. Nothing to go to jail over. Banks are good people and didn't do anything with the information.

There are times I wish I was a fly on the wall. Or more accurately, a blackberry:-).

[madmax]

My question is how did the NDP Judy ??? know about the income trust wrong doing in the first place. If it was only one guy at fault, how or who tipped her off??

Nobody tipped off Judy.

[madmax]

There is no doubt that the markets "spiked" before the Liberal announcement. There was no such spike prior to the Conservative announcement.

I couldn't imagine the level of trading if their had been a leak in the CPCs about face on Income trusts.

People would have dumped these stocks making off like bandits, shortly before they were worthless.

Kinda like Enron and Nortel;-).

You have to admit, no matter how hypocritical the decision to reverse income trusts, at least the CPC didn't botch it up worse then it already was going to be.

[jdobbin]

Now Geoffrey. He only emailed a banker IIRC. What would a banker care about income trusts. Really it was just idle chit chat. Nothing to go to jail over. Banks are good people and didn't do anything with the information.

There are times I wish I was a fly on the wall. Or more accurately, a blackberry:-).

I believe the RCMP looked into what happened in response to Brison's email. They didn't find any illegal trading from the banker or his clients in this.

My impression that it was not really a secret at all that the Liberals were not going to tax income trusts and the market acted accordingly. The RCMP only found the one person who was criminally in breach of trust. The OSC might find some others who might have been criminally involved in insider trading but they refuse to say whether there is even an investigation going on.

[Catchme]

They charged one guy for insider trading.

Just as Brian Mulroney got away with bribery for Airbus?

The right wing was able to benefit from the RCMP announcing a criminal investigation into the Liberals. They won an election. Fifteen months later, no charges against any Liberal.

'nuff said!

[scribblet]

Goodale owes us an apology, not Harper

"He told Canadians that no one in his office or his department was involved in any kind of activity. It was the position of the Liberal party prior to the last election that this should be swept under the carpet."

[Catchme]

Actually, no!

The RCMP owe Canadians an apology, for stating something that was NOT true, and this misinformation got us a government that wou;d've never gotten in.

Harper and the CPC owe Goodale an apology, they inferred continually it was him. Not so, they were fabricating at best.

It was a government employee, not a LIberal Party member.

[hiti]

I remember that day when Ralph Goodale's office announced that he would be making an announcement on IT later. This was then discussed on blogs and discussion groups such as 55 Plus and everyone said that it would be a good report with the Liberal government not taxing IT especially with an election imminent. People who play the stock market instinctively know when a good deal is coming and those who are use to knowing gambled and bought stock. What is so hard to understand about that?

It is not because of leaks from Goodale or any politician that IT stocks were traded. Brison's email to his friend only said that it would be good news. Did his friend then buy IT stocks? Apparently not or he would be charged with insider trading. But everybody use to stocks, investments, political watchers knew that it would be good news because Liberals were not going to cut their own throat in public and then call an election. Everything else is slimy vilifying of Goodale and questionably ethical of Steve's conservatives to insist this was a Liberal scandal. Really, the public is not all that stupid and people who are paying attention know the RCMP exonerated Goodale and ALL politicians with only a civil servant charged. Credibility is lost by prolonging a scandal that had nothing to do with the Liberal Party.

Ralph Goodale said, "The investigation has indicated no involvement in this matter by me, my staff or any other political person."

What is questionable here is only did the RCMP inappropriately send a fax to the NDP confirming the IT investigation, they then waited a couple days, noticed no mention of it in the papers (the fax was sitting in an empty constituency office over the holidays) and then inappropriately PHONED the NDP to say, "Hey we're investigating.....we sent you a fax"

The public has lost faith in the RCMP, especially after the Arar affair, their handling of Ontario Finance Minister Greg Sorbara's case, their willingness to confirm to an NDP Member of Parliament that there was an investigation --- in the middle of an election campaign no less, not to mention Commissioner Zack having convenient memory loss.

By getting on Steve's band wagon, Judy Wasylycia-Leis is diminishing herself in the public. It would be interesting to know what her constituents think of her continuing to perpetrate a lie.

But hey..... keep on parroting the same lines.... Liberal scandal, Goodale scandal. Credibility is gone.

p.s. Quebec voters are not stupid and we will have a PQ government there in March.

[southerncomfort]

Actually, no!

Actually YES!!!! Actually it sounds like more like the old Chretien standard when it was the benchmark of acceptable behaviour in public office was defined as "anything short of a crime."

Remember Shawinigan affair, when Mr. Chretien's steered (wink wink nudge nudge) public funds to a friend and supporter,but said the RCMP found no evidence of criminal wrongdoing like it was the end of it. After all, he had been "exonerated."

Same potatoes here another RCMP investigation into alleged Liberal criminal activity and again the Liberals are declaring themselves "exonerated." LOL

[hiti]

Jean Chretien the MP phoned the Business Bank to procure a loan for his friend. Not the right thing for a PM to do.

So is that any different than a PM giving tax breaks to tobacco processor in a politically vulnerable region of Southern Ontario? One tobacco processor that should benefit from the tax change -- Simcoe Leaf Tobacco Co. Ltd. -- is in Ms. Finley's riding of Haldimand-Norfolk. It was unclear whether any firms outside her riding would benefit. One industry expert said Simcoe Leaf appears to be the only company that would be eligible for the tax break.

Steve scandal? Not so different from schawinigate.

[scribblet]

Jean Chretien the MP phoned the Business Bank to procure a loan for his friend. Not the right thing for a PM to do.

Steve scandal? Not so different from schawinigate.

Close - but no cigar.

Mr. Goodale should make a special apology to former RCMP commissioner Giuliano Zaccardelli for taking the position that the allegations of a leak were an "invention" of the Mounties. Sure they were.

[jdobbin]

Close - but no cigar.

Mr. Goodale should make a special apology to former RCMP commissioner Giuliano Zaccardelli for taking the position that the allegations of a leak were an "invention" of the Mounties. Sure they were.

The RCMP concluded there was no leak. They did find someone in breach of trust.

[geoffrey]

The RCMP concluded there was no leak. They did find someone in breach of trust.

The RCMP concluded there was not enough evidence to try someone for a leak. The leak happened, the evidence in the trading spike is proof.

No one is found innocent, they are found not guilty. This is the perfect case. Brison's e-mail isn't beyond a reasonable doubt... but it's rather obvious to anyone that actually thinks about it.

Brison said he wrote, "I think you will be happier very soon ... this week probably," after the bank employee complained to him about the state of the stock market.

Source: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2006/03/07/...usts060307.html

Definitely questionable. It's enough for someone to step down at least IMO.

Someone under the direction of Mr. Goodale profited greatly from it. Goodale and his Deputy Minister should have kept closer tabs on their employees, that is their jobs.

[jdobbin]

The RCMP concluded there was not enough evidence to try someone for a leak. The leak happened, the evidence in the trading spike is proof.

No one is found innocent, they are found not guilty. This is the perfect case. Brison's e-mail isn't beyond a reasonable doubt... but it's rather obvious to anyone that actually thinks about it.

Brison said he wrote, "I think you will be happier very soon ... this week probably," after the bank employee complained to him about the state of the stock market.

Source: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2006/03/07/...usts060307.html

Definitely questionable. It's enough for someone to step down at least IMO.

Someone under the direction of Mr. Goodale profited greatly from it. Goodale and his Deputy Minister should have kept closer tabs on their employees, that is their jobs.

They looked at the the banker that Brison talked to. If he was the start of the spike in trading, they certainly didn't find evidence for it.

As for Goodale being responsible for management of his department, this is true. However, as I pointed, even a big corporation like Wal-Mart, it is possible for an exec to be individually guilty of a crime and not take down the CEO because of it.

I'm sure you will continue to feel Goodale is guilty of a crime in the same way that some think Mulroney is guilty of a crime.

[geoffrey]

I'm sure you will continue to feel Goodale is guilty of a crime in the same way that some think Mulroney is guilty of a crime.

No no no, Goodale isn't criminally responsible, but he was negligent. I'm not saying Goodale himself needs to be charged, but it does have to be acknowledged that he failed to keep control over the Ministerial related responsibilities of senior management. Big failure IMO.

I think alot leaked out from that decision, like I said, completely obvious in the trading in the few hours or so up to the announcement (if it was market just realising trends in policy, it wouldn't be concentrated up until a few minutes before the announcement). Many institutional investors unloaded massive amounts of trust units in the few hours before.

You can't just say that it was coincidence. Someone talked, but we are unlikely to ever know who it was. It wasn't Goodale though IMO. Brison is one obvious choice. There are others.

[Catchme]

Jean Chretien the MP phoned the Business Bank to procure a loan for his friend. Not the right thing for a PM to do.

Steve scandal? Not so different from schawinigate.

Mr. Goodale should make a special apology to former RCMP commissioner Giuliano Zaccardelli for taking the position that the allegations of a leak were an "invention" of the Mounties. Sure they were.

No, the RCMP press conference announcing this was unheard of for the RCMP to do ever.

Not only that they had faxed Judy the info hoping she would open it up for them, when it sat in her office for 2 weeks, the RCMP finally phoned her and told her it was there. Then she went public.

Now, those actions by Zacardelli are not an usual thing to do for an RCMP investigation that has not yet started in anyway, now are they? So, who was pushing his buttons to get this exposed at a inopportune time during the election campaign?

First bets are Harper and the CPC, it benefited no one else, and Harper tried desperately to cover up, or rather keep the lid on Zacardelli's complicity in the Arar case, and he did not fire him when Zarcardelli should've been for lying. But hey with zacardelli gone now we will never know for sure eh? Unless we see a fine government appointment on the books for him.

The RCMP owe Goodale an apology, if NOT Canadians as a whole.

[scribblet]

Interesting piece from the http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...9/TPStory/Front

the internal e-mails show that by Nov. 21, the group was considering two general options -- taxing trusts or lowering dividend taxes. The team was led by Bob Hamilton, a senior deputy minister, and Louise Levonian, director of the department's business-income-tax division. In one e-mail, Mr. Hamilton specifically asked Mr. Nadeau and another official, Len Farber, to "please take a careful look at these."

-snip-

That afternoon, Mr. Hamilton and some of the others received an e-mail warning about the political risks of taxing trusts. "Investors will interpret anything as an attack on their precious income trusts and the pension plans will have no choice but to go to war over this 'thin edge of the wedge' - the beginning [of] the end for their tax-deferred status on all income," the e-mail said. The name of the sender has been blacked out, but the message advised waiting until after the election to introduce a tax.

Just before 2 p.m. on Nov. 22, Ms. Levonian sent a copy of a press release outlining the option to lower the tax on dividends to Mr. Goodale. Around the same time, David Gamble, a media relations officer, warned everyone to keep the information inside the department. That evening, Mr. Goodale approved the option and officials made plans to issue a press release the next day at around 4:30 p.m. Mr. Nadeau, Mr. Farber, Ms. Levonian and Mr. Hamilton were to receive final copies of all material the next morning, the documents show.

[geoffrey]

So many many people knew. Why did Goodale not run a tighter ship on the issue? Why weren't the Directors asked to not trade in securities leading up to the decision? And why was that not verified by the Department after?

We're not talking about corporate insider trading here. We're talking about assisting in developing government policies (one that I ended up agreeing with completely) for one's profit. The Minister should have taken further steps to ensure the advice he was getting on his decision was independant. A Ministry surely has the ability to legally verify that it's employees aren't profitting from policy decisions they influence.