Ontario - $10 Minimum Wage Proposal

[Riverwind]

Low wage labour for low wage jobs in Ontario, isn't an option when competeting or retaining investment dollars in major manufacturing.

We need to have high paying, high skilled jobs that do not compete on price only, however, these industries are undermined when they have to overpay for services that are protected from foreign competition by geography or with government regulation. Sometimes these protections are justified for non-economic political or social reasons. However, I feel across the board hikes in minimum wages are not justifed because the harm caused is greater than the benefits delivered.

[madmax]

These companies where people run CNC machines for $10, who do they sell to? Would they still be competitive if they had to pay $24? I think it could make a rather large pile of beans to many companies. Would many even stay in Canada if they had to do that or move offshore?

There are individuals whom own their own CNC machines as well as companies whom have them in their industries as well as machine shops.

We are talking about a minimum wage, which provides a standard of living for a working person.

Anyone in the business, be it plastics or metals will be able to explain that the pressures in Ontarios industries are enormous.

If the finished good is provided cheaper then the raw materials, and as an outsourcer of these goods, I can tell you that that is the way it is, then why bother even making the first cut? I don't care what his wages are, I am purchasing the goods offshore and shut my own machines down.

Many machine shops are in layoffs today, many are probably going to go under as their isn't as large base to service in coming years for North America. As you may well be aware, the Ontario Triangle is well suited to handle Albertas growing technical needs, and can do it cheaper than can be done in Alberta.

Thus may provide some relief, but all of this has little to do with the minimum wage in Ontario.

Obviously industry services the local market, North American Market and Global Market.

One great Irony in all of this, is that a Part the Chinese wanted to make, but didn't have the expertise to design, contracted it back to the North American Manufacturer, and their Designers and Engineers told their employers to F*&** OFF. They then sent the part to its Canadian Counter Part, and had their engineers, staff and floorworkers design the part, that would allow for 10s of millions of dollars of business to be removed from their own plant to China. Do it or be fired.

So, of course, that plant many months after this wonderful deal is going to be closed.

Again, $10 wage or not, filled with full time temps etc, isn't going to make a difference with regards to manufacturing in the larger scale.

Companies making money in Canada have been investing in China with the profits driven from their Canadian Operations. The more money generated in profits, the more to be reinvested overseas. The money is not being invested in Canada.

So that hill of beans in "savings" is just being earmarked for another place.

Companies will always press for the lowest possible wages.

How many people work for temp agencies but work in the same factory full time for years?

The factory pays the temp agency a significant amount of money for the purpose of removing their liability of ESA.

How many factories pay a temp $15 to $18 while the worker gets $8 $8.25 or $9.15 or even $11.

Obviously there is much more then ever meets the eye of the casual observer.

[madmax]

However, I feel across the board hikes in minimum wages are not justifed because the harm caused is greater than the benefits delivered.

I think you have stated your positions justly.

[madmax]

Question:

Do you think minimum wage would rise if the mandatory one was abolished?

The wage fall below $8.00/hr if it was abolished.

The minimum wage is not "market" based it is "needs" based.

[madmax]

Though I'm not convinced in this lazy country we call Canada. We have a labour shortage in at least one area (Alberta, maybe BC) while the Maritimes have Eastern Bloc style unemployment.

I have seen enough educated, re educated, and re educated again, employees in Ontario, move from employment to employment, re inventing themselves many times over. This re investment in education is done at the employees expense, while North American corporations/industry do the absolute least in upgrading skill sets.

I have seen very little lazy about Canadian Workers. I hear of stereo types, and lots of slamming of our own. But from what I have experience over the years, I don't believe in your assessment.

You moved out west. You are not alone. You are not Lazy.You are probably young and were unmarried when you did such a thing. Obviously in two income homes, the conflicts will arise. Does a women give up her executive position benefits and seniority in a legal firm to move out west with her husband?

Decisions are complicated, and decided on things far more important then if there is beer in the fridge and the cable is still connected.

There is movement towards jobs in the Eastern Provinces. Certain areas are experiencing growth.

There is movement out West.

Calling people Lazy? I can find Lazy people anywhere, it is not a Canadian Phenonmena.

And these people working for $8 per hour are often the hardest working people you may ever encounter.

Their jobs do not and will not ever pay much more then the minimum wage.

Unless they are in Alberta:-)

[Kapitän Rotbart]

Speaking of people willing to work for low pay, I think Canada should have an immigration tax. This may not be completely relevant, but I think that the Canadian government should pay for immigrant professionals' national certification so that they can practice their profession in Canada within a couple years of immigrating. This education would be paid by a fund generated by an immigration tax. Once certified, these professional immigrants would pay into such tax until their professional training is paid off.

About higher minimum wage, I don't really see the point. The Canadian dollar has a relatively low inflation rate, yet the minimum wage seems to be climbing faster than inflation. I think minimum wage should be reduced. Even without minimum wage, employees would not be willing to accept work under a certain rate (I don't think even high school students would be willing to work for a couple bucks an hour unless it were the funnest job in the world, something they could do effortlessly at home or extremely temporary), so it would come to a good balance.

[geoffrey]

Speaking of people willing to work for low pay, I think Canada should have an immigration tax. This may not be completely relevant, but I think that the Canadian government should pay for immigrant professionals' national certification so that they can practice their profession in Canada within a couple years of immigrating.

Why the hell would I subsidize a doctor to earn $400,000 the next year? Not happening.

Loans sure, a tax everyone has to pay for professionals to improve their qualifications? Ridiculous.

[Charles Anthony]

Why the hell would I subsidize a doctor to earn $400,000 the next year? Not happening.

Why?? because your share of the "subsidy" is tiny and you can force everybody else to pay the difference. Sounds like a great deal to me!

Loans?!?

Why would you distort the market for borrowing money??

[Mad_Michael]

Thread title is very misleading.

NDP in Ontario may want a $10 minimum wage, but it isn't on the legislative agenda in Ontario.

[madmax]

Thread title is very misleading.

NDP in Ontario may want a $10 minimum wage, but it isn't on the legislative agenda in Ontario.

That is true. The original poster failed to include "NDP" in the title. The NDP was campaigning on the $10 min wage in the 3 by elections. There is no Min wage increase on the Legislative agenda.

The campaign was tested in the Toronto riding and they pulled off an upset.

See Ontario Bi Election Thread.

[Mad_Michael]

Thread title is very misleading.

NDP in Ontario may want a $10 minimum wage, but it isn't on the legislative agenda in Ontario.

That is true. The original poster failed to include "NDP" in the title. The NDP was campaigning on the $10 min wage in the 3 by elections. There is no Min wage increase on the Legislative agenda.

The campaign was tested in the Toronto riding and they pulled off an upset.

See Ontario Bi Election Thread.

Yes, I just wanted to make it clear that the Ontario Government has not floated this as a 'trial balloon' or initiated any legislative proposal on the topic - it is an NDP policy proposal being advertised (which is of course a perfectly reasonable thing for them to do).

I'm not crazy about increasing the minimum wage in Ontario at this time - though I'm not necessarily opposed to it either - unless perhaps we split it, one for minors, one for adults. Raising the minimum wage can hurt the local governments themselves hiring summer lifeguards for wading pools and stuff like that. I like to see hiring of local teens in such summer jobs - raising the minimum wage hurts this teen job market. On the other hand, raising the minimum age that helps adult working poor is generally pretty good public policy.