Teachers Plan to Inculcate Children with Anti Israel Propaganda

geoffrey · January 18, 2007

True. But the article cited discusses teaching about human-rights violations in Israel which are indisputable facts (whether or not such human rights violations are justified or not is where the politics actually begin, and that is not what is being expressed here).
Given that we hear about suicide-bombings every day, yet we hardly ever hear about the human-rights violations on the part of Israel, I can understand why the teacher's union would propose balancing the two FACTS.

I'm completely ok with teachers showing kids what conditions are like in refugee camps and explaining to them the need for a responsible plan on allowing these people to live productive lives.

Condemnation of Israel exclusively is unacceptable in our education system. I'd like to see teachers make suggestions about how Israel can better manage the situation

I did not see where you got the exclusively part from.

The rhetoric leads one to believe this is more focused on a "let kids know that Israel is the bad boy here" policy.

First off, there is no indication that such a curriculum would excuse terrorism as somehow being acceptable. Criticising Israel and rejecting terrorism are not mutually exclusive.

I agree, I'm highly critical of Israel as well (such as my strong words against the scale of their retribution against Lebanon), but I still respect their right to self defense.

Secondly, your justification that Palestinians voted for Hamas thereby creating a fair-game of collective punishment against them, is the exact same rationale terrorists use when blowing up pizza parlours and crashing planes into buildings. They also believe civilians are fair game since they voted for, and since they support their politicians. You may want to reconsider your stance.

Not collective punishment no. I don't agree with carpet bombing or rocket attacks on schools or anything of the kind. But eventually one needs to realise that most Palestinians have the ultimate destruction of Israel as their goal. It puts the situation more into perspective, and allows you to understand why Israel is so afraid of these rather poor people, when they are so fundamentally void of reason.

Civilians must always remain sacred no matter who they voted for. Remember, we call people terrorists when they can't make that distinction.

Terrorism is a whole 'nother ballgame BC chick. A terrorist is a civilian until they press detonate. Dealing with that kind of threat isn't the same as only shooting at uniformed soldiers and much more collateral damage will result. Bottom line is that if there were no terrorists, Israel would not be inflicting collateral damage upon innocent Palestinians. Hamas is the real evil here, and is the only major roadblock to peace in the region... Israel has been very active in extending quite a few unilateral olive branches.

madmax · January 18, 2007

BC Chick,
That's not even comparable. Dealing with science is far more black and white than international politics. Condemnation of Israel exclusively is unacceptable in our education system.

Nor would it ever happen. And it won't happen even under circumstances of explaining Human Rights abuses by Syria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iran, ........

The subject is too taboo, but international politics in the mid east is bloodsport for anybody considering venturing into.

BC_chick · January 18, 2007

Nor would it ever happen. And it won't happen even under circumstances of explaining Human Rights abuses by Syria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iran, ........
The subject is too taboo, but international politics in the mid east is bloodsport for anybody considering venturing into.

I agree that the issue won't ever see the light of day, but just to point out - there is quite a difference in a totalitarian regime which does not provide freedoms to its citizens, and an apartheid state where freedoms are extended.... but only to the "correct" portion of its citizens.

Many countries in the world fall into the former category. But I can't think of any other democracy in the world that still OPENLY adopts racist policies. I say openly because there is always a marginalised group in every country, but real democracies at least have a charter or bill of rights which supposedly works to protect all its citizens.

geoffrey · January 19, 2007

I agree that the issue won't ever see the light of day, but just to point out - there is quite a difference in a totalitarian regime which does not provide freedoms to its citizens, and an apartheid state where freedoms are extended.... but only to the "correct" portion of its citizens.

I wonder if teachers should cover the additional rights Indians get based on their DNA profile...

But I can't think of any other democracy in the world that still OPENLY adopts racist policies.

The Canadian government does.

I say openly because there is always a marginalised group in every country, but real democracies at least have a charter or bill of rights which supposedly works to protect all its citizens.

Only minorities.

madmax · January 19, 2007

BC Chick,
but we need to make it clear to kids in school that terrorism is unacceptable (Palestinians in a majority support Hamas, remember that) and that it will ultimately be punished.

So, if they chose the terrorist based Fatah party it would not be punished? Or while terrorism is unacceptable, terrorists can become accepted.

madmax · January 19, 2007

Only minorities.

You are stretching that comment, The Charter Protects you and your rights.

geoffrey · January 19, 2007

So, if they chose the terrorist based Fatah party it would not be punished? Or while terrorism is unacceptable, terrorists can become accepted.

Fatah is not terrorist based, Hamas is.

You are stretching that comment, The Charter Protects you and your rights.

Not really. Do you see the Supreme Court overruling the extra rights certain people (Indians) get based on DNA in Canada? I don't think so. I don't have equal rights to many people in this country, and that's unacceptable IMO.

The Charter does nothing for me. Canada existed fine (possibly better) without one until 1982.

Figleaf · January 19, 2007

The teacher's union, which deals with working conditions and issues, has neither the mandate or the know how to make any such 'suggestions' whatsoever to teachers in their union. That they are abusing their power to influence what teachers cover in the classroom is what is concerning here. If they were trying to similarly influence teachers to cover religious morals in a positive way perhaps those who shrug their shoulders about the Israel topic would see the light.

If teachers or the union steps out of line as far as their mandate, then the school management can raise that point. It's clear, though, that Israel apologists are not concerned with proper labor/mgmt. relations; they are beefing about the idea of teaching students the truth about the Middle East.

Figleaf · January 19, 2007

The job of the teacher is to teach, without instilling any political bias.

There's that assumption again. The teachers are not proposing to instill any bias.

Figleaf · January 19, 2007

BC Chick,
Condemnation of Israel exclusively is unacceptable in our education system.

Fortunately, no-one suggested exclusively condemning Israel.

Figleaf · January 19, 2007

Is your sense of entitlement blinding you to the clear wrongs in this resolution?

:lol: Ricki, you're having trouble keeping your rightwing jingoism in order! "Sense of entitlement" is the hackneyed phrase for bitching about social programs. For kneejerk defence of Israel it's customary to use phrases like "you support terrorists".

Figleaf · January 19, 2007

I wonder if teachers should cover the additional rights Indians get based on their DNA profile...

Such inaccuracy is unhelpful. Status Indians' benefits arise from pre-existing agreements, not their "DNA". Complaining about that would be like complaining that WestJet pays dividends to its stockholders but not to me.

scribblet · January 19, 2007

The motion was defeated, thank goodness. I hope the union gets the message but I doubt it. IMHO the only reason it was defeated is because of the flak, I'd be interested in knowing the actual vote count.

BC_chick · January 19, 2007

I say openly because there is always a marginalised group in every country, but real democracies at least have a charter or bill of rights which supposedly works to protect all its citizens.

Only minorities.

Did I catch that right? Are you trying to compare yourself to a Palestinian living in Israel? :lol:

Okay fine. But remember, even if certain provisions may not have been specifically written to protect you, the rest of the rights and freedoms in our charter apply equally to you.

In contrast, Israel is a democracy whose rights are not equally extended to its citizens.

BC_chick · January 19, 2007

Such inaccuracy is unhelpful. Status Indians' benefits arise from pre-existing agreements, not their "DNA". Complaining about that would be like complaining that WestJet pays dividends to its stockholders but not to me.

Ricki, you're having trouble keeping your rightwing jingoism in order! "Sense of entitlement" is the hackneyed phrase for bitching about social programs. For kneejerk defence of Israel it's customary to use phrases like "you support terrorists".

lol BRILLIANT!

Ricki Bobbi · January 19, 2007

Ricki, you're having trouble keeping your rightwing jingoism in order! "Sense of entitlement" is the hackneyed phrase for bitching about social programs. For kneejerk defence of Israel it's customary to use phrases like "you support terrorists".

I wasn't acting from a playbook of right-wing clichés. I was just calling it as it is.

Ricki Bobbi · January 19, 2007

lol BRILLIANT!

Shove the cheerleading for the insults.

You'd think someone with your sense of self-importance would be able to add to this board other than lowering yourself to egg on the attacks of another poster.

Was my post really that difficult for you to respond to?

Or has the wake and bake made it tough for you to type more than one word posts??? :lol:

Figleaf · January 19, 2007

lol BRILLIANT!

piss off with the attacks honey.

What attack? She was expressing appreciation for my post. A woman of obvious discernment.

Add something to the board or leave.

Like you just did??? :lol:

BTW, BC Chick's contributions are generally well thought out and excellent (in contrast to some others that bob right to the top of the mind.)

EDITED: I see you've editted your post whilst I was replying. Ah well.

mikedavid00 · January 19, 2007

Could you imagine the outrage if the Provincial Government tried to get teachers to lecture their students on the continuation of Palestinian's breaking international law?

That teachers union also wants to not recognize the daylight savings time change.

What idiots. I really hate teachers - teachers of all sorts.

That includes Dion and Ignatieff.

They are idealists. Nothing more.

guyser · January 19, 2007

What idiots. I really hate teachers - teachers of all sorts.

That shows through quite well.

mikedavid00 · January 19, 2007

What idiots. I really hate teachers - teachers of all sorts.

That shows through quite well.

They are too self rightious with no real experience. I have little repect for the world of modern academia in Canada.

stignasty · January 19, 2007

They are too self rightious with no real experience.

People said the same thing about the Conservatives before the last election.

madmax · January 20, 2007

So, if they chose the terrorist based Fatah party it would not be punished? Or while terrorism is unacceptable, terrorists can become accepted.

Fatah is not terrorist based, Hamas is.

Oh? Fatah is not terrorist based?

In the 1960s and the 1970s, Fatah provided training to a wide range of European, Middle Eastern, Asian, and African militant and insurgent groups, and carried out numerous attacks against Israeli targets in Western Europe and the Middle East during the 1970s. Some militant groups that affiliated themselves to Fatah, and some of the fedayeen within Fatah itself, carried out civilian plane hijackings and terrorist attacks, attributing them to Black September, Abu Nidal's Fatah-Revolutionary Council, Abu Musa's group, the PFLP, and the PFLP-GC.

Lets keep looking

Until his death, Arafat was the head of the Palestinian Authority. Farouk Kaddoumi is the current Fatah chairman, elected to the post soon after Arafat's death in 2004.
Fatah has "Observer Party" status at the Socialist International.

Since 2000, the group is a member of the Palestinian National and Islamic Forces[6], which includes both PLO and non-PLO factions, including Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad, listed as terrorist organizations in the West. [7]

Fatah endorsed Mahmoud Abbas in the Palestinian presidential election of 2005.

And Fatahs biggest problem was that they were a one party system that failed the voters. So, here is your choice.

In 2005, Hamas won landslide victories in nearly all the municipalities it contested. Fatah is "widely seen as being in desperate need of reform", as "the PA's performance has been a story of corruption and incompetence - and Fatah has been tainted." Political analyst Sallah Abdelshafi told BBC about the difficulties of Fatah leadership: "I think it's very, very serious - it's becoming obvious that they can't agree on anything." [8]

You have grown comfortable and accepting of the Fatah PLO terrorists, and their political affliliates.

Not that there is anything wrong with that.

PolyNewbie · January 20, 2007

The truth about Israel and the Palistinians kind of jumps out at you.

We get enough pro Israeli information from the mainstream media. Its time for a little balance. Besides there are plenty of Israelis who would agree that they mistreat the Palistinians.

Argus · January 20, 2007

The teacher's union, which deals with working conditions and issues, has neither the mandate or the know how to make any such 'suggestions' whatsoever to teachers in their union. That they are abusing their power to influence what teachers cover in the classroom is what is concerning here. If they were trying to similarly influence teachers to cover religious morals in a positive way perhaps those who shrug their shoulders about the Israel topic would see the light.

If teachers or the union steps out of line as far as their mandate, then the school management can raise that point. It's clear, though, that Israel apologists are not concerned with proper labor/mgmt. relations; they are beefing about the idea of teaching students the truth about the Middle East.

The article never suggested teachers want to teach truth, merely that they teach that Jews are evil.