Dion: You can make big money from the environment

[Canuck E Stan]

Profits to be made from the Environment.

"Countries that embrace the environment as a core priority will lead the global economy in the 21st century," Dion told a breakfast crowd from the Economic Club of Toronto and Toronto Board of Trade.

"Their companies will become highly profitable by selling those solutions to the world. They will be shielded from the inevitably rising cost of energy by their strong commitment to energy efficiency. Their populations will have both higher incomes and a higher quality of life. I want Canada to be one of those countries."

Jim Fisher, a vice dean and professor of leadership at the University of Toronto's Rotman School of Management, gave him failing marks for his message.

"For some guy in government to tell me to target innovation in green-based industries because it's going to be an emerging market (the reaction) is like, 'Oh good, as if I didn't know that,"' Fisher said.

"As if there isn't no end of venture capitalists and private funders and angel investors and entrepreneurs already trying to do that."

A better approach, said Fisher, would be to tell the business community exactly how they'll get help from the government to succeed.

Glen Stone, public affairs manager for the Toronto Board of Trade, was not critical of the speech but did say the business crowd can be skeptical of politicians' promises if there's no substance behind them.

"It's always welcome to hear statements of principle that you agree with, so when you hear someone talking about the importance of a strong economy to sustain a strong nation, any businessperson can understand that and agree with that," Stone said.

"It's when you get down to the specifics of how you will create and sustain that strong economy that people are looking for more specific answers as to exactly what taxes will be reduced, what regulations will be amended or eliminated, or what investments will be made to create a more competitive business climate."

Will the "you can make money" by being green work for the Liberals? Or will the public be cynical about this "money to be made" on the environment, rather than "it's the right thing to do" attitude.

Throw in the Liberal years of not doing anything about Kyoto, and now having a sudden revival of rediscovering the environment, will the public really buy into Dion's world domination of environmental innovation, for financial gain, get the Liberals elected into power?

[jdobbin]

Will the "you can make money" by being green work for the Liberals? Or will the public be cynical about this "money to be made" on the environment, rather than "it's the right thing to do" attitude.

Throw in the Liberal years of not doing anything about Kyoto, and now having a sudden revival of rediscovering the environment, will the public really buy into Dion's world domination of environmental innovation, for financial gain, get the Liberals elected into power?

This is the California approach taken by Schwarzenegger. It got him elected.

[B. Max]

Will the "you can make money" by being green work for the Liberals? Or will the public be cynical about this "money to be made" on the environment, rather than "it's the right thing to do" attitude.

Throw in the Liberal years of not doing anything about Kyoto, and now having a sudden revival of rediscovering the environment, will the public really buy into Dion's world domination of environmental innovation, for financial gain, get the Liberals elected into power?

We are already making money. Destroying the economy is not the way to make money.

[Canuck E Stan]

This is the California approach taken by Schwarzenegger. It got him elected.

But will Canadian Business and the Canadian voter buy into the new improved Dion the Kyotominator?

[jdobbin]

But will Canadian Business and the Canadian voter buy into the new improved Dion the Kyotominator?

I have no doubt that many of these companies see the writing on the wall. Exxon wasn't going to go against Schwarzenegger, for example. They've cut their ties to the global warming foes.

It will come down to Dion or Harper's policies on the same issue. Harper dares not present something less than what he previously presented. For Dion, he has to present a policy that business will accept. To do that, he has to present something that will improve productivity while reducing emissions.

[August1991]

This is the California approach taken by Schwarzenegger. It got him elected.

That's not what made Schwarzenegger Governor and anyway, Canada is not California and no one would confuse Dion for Arnold.

I have no doubt the Liberals will run (in part) on the environment but they are too smart to run on it this way. Right now, this is a poorly advised Dion shooting his mouth off and thinking that he's a head of the game. He's not.

If the Liberals want to get back into power, they must know that governments defeat themselves; the best the opposition can do is to be a credible alternative.

The Liberals should embarrass the Tories at every turn, and dig up all the dirt, incompetence and hypocrisy they can find. At the same time, Dion should state plainly that he wants to be a good PM while respecting the environment and Canada's (Liberal) social heritage.

[Canuck E Stan]

For Dion, he has to present a policy that business will accept. To do that, he has to present something that will improve productivity while reducing emissions.

As Glen Stone, public affairs manager for the Toronto Board of Trade said

It's when you get down to the specifics of how you will create and sustain that strong economy that people are looking for more specific answers as to exactly what taxes will be reduced, what regulations will be amended or eliminated, or what investments will be made to create a more competitive business climate."

Presently,business is doing well, and it will take some real convincing to make them invest into being Green.

So without specifics from Dion's, the Liberal plan for business and the environment is nothing more than an idea without any substance.

Dion needs to come up with more than this if he wants to win business over.

[jdobbin]

Presently,business is doing well, and it will take some real convincing to make them invest into being Green.

So without specifics from Dion's, the Liberal plan for business and the environment is nothing more than an idea without any substance.

Dion needs to come up with more than this if he wants to win business over.

Productivity is not doing well in Canada. I think we'll see more details on this shortly. Harper will have to come up with details shortly. I imagine we'll see be seeing more details from Dion at the same time.

Businesses will have to decide what is best for them but I think they can see the wave that is coming from California on this. They'll have to be prepared.

[jdobbin]

That's not what made Schwarzenegger Governor and anyway, Canada is not California and no one would confuse Dion for Arnold.

I have no doubt the Liberals will run (in part) on the environment but they are too smart to run on it this way. Right now, this is a poorly advised Dion shooting his mouth off and thinking that he's a head of the game. He's not.

If the Liberals want to get back into power, they must know that governments defeat themselves; the best the opposition can do is to be a credible alternative.

The Liberals should embarrass the Tories at every turn, and dig up all the dirt, incompetence and hypocrisy they can find. At the same time, Dion should state plainly that he wants to be a good PM while respecting the environment and Canada's (Liberal) social heritage.

Schwarzenegger was in trouble before he latched onto the environment. He was re-elected in November and the exit polls showed the environment played a huge role. You disagree?

Dion isn't Arnie. Dion's English is better.

I believe CTV releases a poll tonight. We'll see what Canadians are thinking.

[B. Max]

Schwarzenegger was in trouble before he latched onto the environment. He was re-elected in November and the exit polls showed the environment played a huge role. You disagree?

Dion isn't Arnie. Dion's English is better.

I believe CTV releases a poll tonight. We'll see what Canadians are thinking.

I'd say he's going to be in a lot bigger trouble.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070116/D8MM27C83.html

[jdobbin]

I'd say he's going to be in a lot bigger trouble.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070116/D8MM27C83.html

No scientist has said winter would cease to exist ever again and that it would be summer all year long in North America.

[B. Max]

I'd say he's going to be in a lot bigger trouble.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070116/D8MM27C83.html

No scientist has said winter would cease to exist ever again and that it would be summer all year long in North America.

Actually they haven't said anything. They're just hoping nobody will notice.

[jdobbin]

Actually they haven't said anything. They're just hoping nobody will notice.

That's a lot of baloney. No scientist said winter will disappear.

[B. Max]

Actually they haven't said anything. They're just hoping nobody will notice.

That's a lot of baloney. No scientist said winter will disappear.

I never said that. Stop inventing things.

They were all over the big ice shelf break a couple of weeks as proof of man made global warming. Now the big freeze in california and there's not a word out of them. Of course as expected and known to most people the ice self thing is nothing new. It's just more BS from the global warming machine.

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/story.h...ff-12b91884ddb2

[jdobbin]

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title...ardship_Project

Fred Michel is a well known climate change denier. No one said ice shelfs have not broken off in the past. The stories that were posted earlier were about spring coming earlier and winter freeze-ups starting later.

I can find no academic journals by Dr. Fred Michel. What kind of expert is he?

In his 2006 book "Heat: How to Stop the Planet From Burning", George Monbiot writes that "the heat deniers have done a remarkable job of minimizing the real threat." Monbiot begins by "deconstructing their immoral campaign," Andrew Nikiforuk wrote in a November 11, 2006, The Globe and Mail book review.

"To Monbiot, climate deniers are no better than Holocaust deniers," Nikiforuk writes. "(In Canada, the deniers have an Orwellian sense of humour, and spew confusion as the Friends of Science or the Natural Resources Stewardship Project.) Monbiot diligently traces one bit of poppycock (the glaciers aren't melting) through various websites, only to find U.S. millionaire and Holocaust-denying kook Lyndon Larouche as the original source. [Monbiot] also shows how the petro-funded campaign to minimize the threat originated with the tobacco company Philip Morris. Steve Milloy, the junk science guy for Fox News and an inveterate climate-change denier, worked first as a Philip Morris consultant. Exxon, of course, has largely funded assorted friends and projects in an effort to thank people for making lots of carbon."

[geoffrey]

That's a lot of baloney. No scientist said winter will disappear.

That's unfortunate, I was hoping it would...

[jdobbin]

That's unfortunate, I was hoping it would...

After this deep freeze, I'm not surprised. It will be some time before we see palm trees if ever in Canada. However, an ice free northern passage is something that is not beyond the realm. A few weeks shaved off here and there and suddenly, the port of Churchill has a longer shipping season that would see them compete successfully against other ports.

If Fred Michel had a worthy argument for what he believed in, he would do better to write an academic journal on it. The Friends of Science group is populated by so many people who have no climate backgrounds, no current research on the subject, no peer reviewed works and dubious backing from unnamed sources usually tracked to oil companies.

Even the Conservatives in Canada are not trying to deny global warming anymore.

There's room for new scientific information on the subject but not from someone who doesn't publish new findings.

[B. Max]

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title...ardship_Project

Fred Michel is a well known climate change denier. No one said ice shelfs have not broken off in the past. The stories that were posted earlier were about spring coming earlier and winter freeze-ups starting later.

The global warming / climate alarmists were raving about the ice self breaking off and claiming it was proof of global warming / climate change whatever it always ends up being part of the man made global warming farce.

http://environment.guardian.co.uk/climatec...1979937,00.html

I can find no academic journals by Dr. Fred Michel. What kind of expert is he?

If you had actually the article you would know.

Dr. Fred Michel, an advisor to the

Natural Resources Stewardship Project (nrsp.com), is the director of the Institute of Environmental

Science and Associate Professor in the Department of Earth Sciences at Carleton University in Ottawa.

He's the boss.

[B. Max]

That's unfortunate, I was hoping it would...

If Fred Michel had a worthy argument for what he believed in, he would do better to write an academic journal on it. The Friends of Science group is populated by so many people who have no climate backgrounds, no current research on the subject, no peer reviewed works and dubious backing from unnamed sources usually tracked to oil companies.

Total and typical smear tactics of the left wing promoters of the man made global warming scam.

http://www.friendsofscience.org/index.php?ide=2

[hiti]

Total and typical smear tactics of the left wing promoters of the man made global warming scam.

http://www.friendsofscience.org/index.php?ide=2

Your friends of science are a phony group set up to misinform and mislead the public for their own profit. Sorta like tobacco companies use to do.

Quote- The Friends of Science Society (FoS) is a Canadian non-profit group based in Calgary, Alberta, that is "made up of active and retired engineers, earth scientists and other professionals, as well as many concerned Canadians, who believe the science behind the Kyoto Protocol is questionable."

In an August 12, 2006, The Globe and Mail revealed that the group had received significant funding via anonymous, indirect donations from the oil industry.

Lobbyists

According to the Lobbyists Registration System, Government of Canada, Bryan Thomas and Morten Paulsen of Fleishman-Hillard Canada Inc. are registered lobbyists for the Friends of Science Society. Registration records show that services were due to expire in August 2006. [5]

Morten Paulsen, who "has close Conservative ties", is not only registered as a lobbyist for Friends of Science, but also for "several petroleum companies including Conoco-Phillips Canada, and Kinder Morgan Canada Inc. Paulsen has long been active in the federal Conservative Party and its Reform/Alliance predecessors, serving as Preston Manning's communication director, managing MP Art Hanger's 2004 election campaign, and also holding high-ranking positions with the Alberta Conservatives," according to the Liberal Party of Canada in Alberta in August 2006. [6]

[edit]

Funding

"In Canada, we have the 'Friends of Science Society' founded in 2002 by Albert Jacobs and other retired oil patchers," Jim Peterson, M.P. wrote in 2006. "According to a recent article in the Globe & Mail by Charles Montgomery, the Friends of Science financed their lobbying efforts, including a production of a DVD entitled 'Climate Catastrophe Avoided.' in the following way." Prof Barry Cooper at University of Calgary "established the Science Education Fund. Donations were made by 'we don't know who' to the Calgary Foundation. Its donors are kept anonymous, but they do get tax receipts. The Calgary Foundation then donated to the Science Education Fund, which then paid the costs incurred by the Friends of Science, more than $200,000 was provided over 2 years."

"[The money's] not exclusively from the oil and gas industry," Cooper told Montgomery. http://www.charlesmontgomery.ca/mrcool.html -end quote

http://www.liberalalberta.ca/news.aspx?site=news&news=11826

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title...ends_of_Science

[B. Max]

"[The money's] not exclusively from the oil and gas industry," Cooper told Montgomery. http://www.charlesmontgomery.ca/mrcool.html -end quote

http://www.liberalalberta.ca/news.aspx?site=news&news=11826

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title...ends_of_Science

So what. It doesn't change the facts behind the science.

[hiti]

"[The money's] not exclusively from the oil and gas industry," Cooper told Montgomery. http://www.charlesmontgomery.ca/mrcool.html -end quote

http://www.liberalalberta.ca/news.aspx?site=news&news=11826

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title...ends_of_Science

So what. It doesn't change the facts behind the science.

Exactly, friends of science are phony.

[B. Max]

Exactly, friends of science are phony.

No, its the computer climate models that are phony.

[jdobbin]

If you had actually the article you would know.

Dr. Fred Michel, an advisor to the

Natural Resources Stewardship Project (nrsp.com), is the director of the Institute of Environmental

Science and Associate Professor in the Department of Earth Sciences at Carleton University in Ottawa.

He's the boss.

Yes, I looked at that. But I cannot find any article that he written on climate change for peer reviewed journals. Please produce one if you have it.

[jdobbin]

So what. It doesn't change the facts behind the science.

Those "facts" are not supported by the vast majority of scientists out there. And the global warming deniers don't bother most of the time to actually research and publish findings.