Oda not welcome at provincial meeting on women's issues

[Canadian Blue]

http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/index.cfm/...em/itemID/13756

Apparently a vast majority of Canadian's support some form of regulation's with regards to abortion. 71% is the current figure.

Some states in the U.S. have "informed consent" laws concerning abortion. These laws require that, before a woman has an abortion procedure, her physician must provide her with certain information such as details on the stages of fetal development, including an ultrasound scan, the possible complications and side effects following an abortion, and alternatives to abortion. Do you support or oppose similar laws in Canada for women considering abortion?

Support

71%

Oppose

26%

Not sure

3%

[Who's Doing What?]

Seriously, we could be saving so much money by just giving women free birth control.

[tml12]

I agree with CanadianBlue that we need some kind of abortion law in this country, especially one that would ban hideous murder, like partial-birth abortion.

It is good that 71% of Canadians supported that...I know I do.

[Canadian Blue]

Seriously, we could be saving so much money by just giving women free birth control.

I'd support that, I think it could work in bringing down the rates of abortion. However I also think we need to look at ways in how to deal with social problems as well, such as reducing poverty, allowing greater access to education, and perhaps reforming the welfare system so as to ensure that every child can be able to live with the basic essentials, and the necessities which allow them to be successful.

I think that poll can put to bed the idea that people that support some pro-life position's are only sexist males bent on domination.

[Catchme]

http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/index.cfm/...em/itemID/13756

Apparently a vast majority of Canadian's support some form of regulation's with regards to abortion. 71% is the current figure.

Some states in the U.S. have "informed consent" laws concerning abortion. These laws require that, before a woman has an abortion procedure, her physician must provide her with certain information such as details on the stages of fetal development, including an ultrasound scan, the possible complications and side effects following an abortion, and alternatives to abortion. Do you support or oppose similar laws in Canada for women considering abortion?

Support

71%

Oppose

26%

Not sure

3%

That is a completely disengenuous snip off of the rest of that poll, and the poll its self is mis-representative of the facts on the gound so to speak.

The rest is:

In your opinion, at what point in human development should the law protect human life?

From conception on

2006 31%

2005 30%

After three months of pregnancy

2006 23%

2005 19%

After six months of pregnancy

2006 10%

2005 11%

From the point of birth

2006 30%

2005 33%

Not sure

2006 6%

2005 6%

63% of Canadians view abortion favourably, 31 % do not. In fact, 40% believe abortions should be accessible after 3 months.

First of the facts on the ground making the poll you posted redundant are:

The abortion laws in the USA are completely different than Canadian. There are no partial birth abortions in Canada. There is NO abortion after 1st trimester unless it is to save mother's life.

Drs in Canada, tell fetal development, in case of all surgies the person is given possible side effects and complications, including abortions. Releases must be signed by the patient saying the patient was fully informed. The admitting nurse goes over it again with the patient after the Dr has.

There is NO point to having ultra sounds at less than 3 months as the fetus is too small.

Alternatives to abortion are known through sex education in schools, through the Dr and nursing staff, and after all there is only 2 others.

But really, what is going on is between the individual and their Dr, it is rights of privacy and self determination no one else has a say.

[margrace]

I could never understand the argument that abortion is wrong but hanging is. It has been my experience in discussions with people that this is a fact.

One must remember also on forums such as this that there are men haters, called extreme feminists and women haters who for some reason hate all women. Why?

[madmax]

I could never understand the argument that abortion is wrong but hanging is. It has been my experience in discussions with people that this is a fact.

One must remember also on forums such as this that there are men haters, called extreme feminists and women haters who for some reason hate all women. Why?

Because these people are ill and insecure.

[scribblet]

Seriously, we could be saving so much money by just giving women free birth control.

Sure, and we could save a lot more if men just zippered up and kept it in their pants.

I'm generally pro-choice with restrictions on late term, IMO after 4 - 5 months. As for partial birth abortions, I don't think doctors in Canada performs those so any legislation on that would be a moot point. It is my understanding that that particular procedure is only done if the mother's health is in danger, not sure though.

[Drea]

Back when I was single and pregnant (I was 5 months along when I got depressed) I went to my doc to see if he could help. He says "We could send you to Seattle for an abortion". I wanted to keep the fetus, depressed or not, so no, I didn't go.

So in the states they perform abortions after the first trimester, but in Canada they don't (obviously or he would not have said "Seattle", he would have said "the hospital")

I believe in publicly funded abortion during the first trimester and in special circumstances, the second trimester.

I also believe that the decision is only between a woman and whoever she decides to share the info with (not necessarily her doctor who may be anti-choice).

I see no problem with abortion in the first or even the second trimester. For those who don't believe in abortion, are you willing to open your home to one of the tens of thousands of foster children?

And for the person who keeps saying "those foster children were not aborted so their mothers didn't believe in abortion" -- I say BULL! How many of those women would have aborted if not for a "wellmeaning" idiot in their lives?

[Canadian Blue]

63% of Canadians view abortion favourably, 31 % do not. In fact, 40% believe abortions should be accessible after 3 months.

Were did you get that figure, I never found it in the poll?

- Many adults in Canada would like to change their country’s rules for pregnancy termination, according to a poll by Environics Research Group. 64 per cent of respondents believe the law should protect human life from conception or during pregnancy.

As well the question that was posed was the following:

Some states in the U.S. have "informed consent" laws concerning abortion. These laws require that, before a woman has an abortion procedure, her physician must provide her with certain information such as details on the stages of fetal development, including an ultrasound scan, the possible complications and side effects following an abortion, and alternatives to abortion. Do you support or oppose similar laws in Canada for women considering abortion?

Support

71%

Oppose

26%

Not sure

3%

Each of these were results from the 2006 poll.

[madmax]

Apparently a vast majority of Canadian's support some form of regulation's with regards to abortion. 71% is the current figure.

Some states in the U.S. have "informed consent" laws concerning abortion. These laws require that, before a woman has an abortion procedure, her physician must provide her with certain information such as details on the stages of fetal development, including an ultrasound scan, the possible complications and side effects following an abortion, and alternatives to abortion. Do you support or oppose similar laws in Canada for women considering abortion?

What a fudged question. You could put "informed consent" law towards any medical procedure. The law requires that before a person has a "medical procedure" the physician must provide certain information such as details to the current status of the medical problem, including (insert machine that goes bing here MRI, CAT, ULTRASOUND,Xrays), the possible complications and side effects of the medical procedure, and alternative procedures such as Homoeapathic Home Remedies...etc.

Do you support laws similar laws here?

Duh, what a BS way to try to skew an argument.

Here is a question or two.

Do you support the Christian Heritage Position against abortion?

Do you support using the NotWithstanding clause in abortion?

Do you recognize that neither the Liberal, Conservative, NDP or Green Party are going to change the current laws with regards to womens rights to abortion.

These are clear questions.

This topic is polarizing, and old hat. Been there done that, seen laws, cases and courts.

If the pro life people here are truly serious about their cause they will vote CHP. Otherwise they can hide behind the pretender parties and false questions and polls.

I want women to choose to have their baby brought to term on their own. Not with the imposition of law.

But if they choose not to, that is their right, not mine. I will neither be raising the child or carrying the burden. I am not a judgemental holier than thou asshole on the sidelines who will be nowhere around after the event occurs, wonderfully thinking that I have done a good deed for society, because I have forced her to have an unwanted child.

[tml12]

The reality of the situation is Canada does not have an abortion law (in the U.S., abortion is constitutionally recognized after 1973's Roe v. Wade decision), whereas in Canada since the Morgantaler decision in 1988 and after Mulroney's two failed attempts to pass an abortion law we do not have an abortion law in this country.

The Libs refused to commit themselves one way or the other for years because they realized it would split them as a party and the Libs don't have a backbone.

Another reality is there is no reason for someone to get an abortion. If they choose to have sex and do not use contraceptives, they are not only putting themselves at risk for a venereal disease, they are also just being plain stupid. I am not ignorant enough to think we should start an abstinance program in this country but I do believe we seriously need to teach younger Canadians of the consequences of these actions as well as create a tighter abortion law in this country.

The Christian Heritage Party does not have a monopoly on pro-life issues in this country. Other religions have pro-life movements within their respective establishments. Practicing Christians have been typecast by the left as being the only ones who are still pro-life and this is simply not true. This is a moral issue for all those who care about the sanctity and decency of life out there.

[Canadian Blue]

No I won't vote for the CHP simply based on their position on abortion. I have concern's about other issues as well, and the CHP doesn't address how they would actually cut down on abortion since it would only go underground unless the government offered something to expectant mother's to carry their baby right to pregnancy.

Do you support the Christian Heritage Position against abortion?

Do you support using the NotWithstanding clause in abortion?

Do you recognize that neither the Liberal, Conservative, NDP or Green Party are going to change the current laws with regards to womens rights to abortion.

1. No

2. No

3. Depends on what the individual MP's support and how they vote.

But if they choose not to, that is their right, not mine. I will neither be raising the child or carrying the burden. I am not a judgemental holier than thou asshole on the sidelines who will be nowhere around after the event occurs, wonderfully thinking that I have done a good deed for society, because I have forced her to have an unwanted child.

Well it also add's a moral question as to what extent government should be involved in that morality of individual people. I think to a certain extent government has to protect life, and see it as a basic human right. This can be seen as a "human rights" issue by both sides which makes it that much more complicated.

[Catchme]

63% of Canadians view abortion favourably, 31 % do not. In fact, 40% believe abortions should be accessible after 3 months.

Were did you get that figure, I never found it in the poll?

Guess you must have just copied and posted the link and copied and pasted the poll from somewhere else then, as I got that info straight from the link you provided, and it came right before the poll question you presented, on the same page even.

Here ya go here is your link again, have a look around you may learn something.

http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/index.cfm/...em/itemID/13756

[scribblet]

from the link:

Many adults in Canada would like to change their country’s rules for pregnancy termination, according to a poll by Environics Research Group. 64 per cent of respondents believe the law should protect human life from conception or during pregnancy. hmmmm didn't realize it was that high. So far, no party other than the CHP is avocating restrictions to abortion, but as I said before, I believe there should be restriction late term.

[Canadian Blue]

Guess you must have just copied and posted the link and copied and pasted the poll from somewhere else then, as I got that info straight from the link you provided, and it came right before the poll question you presented, on the same page even.

Here ya go here is your link again, have a look around you may learn something.

http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/index.cfm/...em/itemID/13756

What are you talking about, nowhere in that link does it show people giving abortion a favorable view at 64%.

[Catchme]

from the link:

Many adults in Canada would like to change their country’s rules for pregnancy termination, according to a poll by Environics Research Group. 64 per cent of respondents believe the law should protect human life from conception or during pregnancy. hmmmm didn't realize it was that high. So far, no party other than the CHP is avocating restrictions to abortion, but as I said before, I believe there should be restriction late term.

TRY READING THAT POLL AGAIN 63 % APPROVE OF ABORTIONS 40 % FROM 3 MONTHS ON.

[scribblet]

This is a copy and paste from the article

Angus Reid Global Monitor : Polls & Research

Canadians Ponder Regulations for Abortion

November 12, 2006

- Many adults in Canada would like to change their country’s rules for pregnancy termination, according to a poll by Environics Research Group. 64 per cent of respondents believe the law should protect human life from conception or during pregnancy.

[Catchme]

This is a copy and paste from the article

Don't care what the paragraph says LOOK at the stats 31 % believe from conception onwards that a fetus should be protected, all others, 63% in fact, say they approve of abortions, except the 6% unknown.

40% of that 63% believe in abortions from 3 months on to birth.

According to the poll results, the many who want changes are the 40% who want abortions legal after the first trimester to birth of the fetus.

[Canadian Blue]

So the majority of people believe life should at the very least be protected after 3 month's???

[Catchme]

So the majority of people believe life should at the very least be protected after 3 month's???

No, yet again, I know you are only pretending to be less than intelligent, as you failed to post the whole poll, but here its is yet again:

the majority think abortions should be available straight from conception until birth.

23% stated they believe in abortions up to 3 months. A figure up 2% from last year actually

10% stated they believe in abortions from conception to 6 months Also a figure up 1% from last year

30% stated they believe in abortions from conception to the point of birth. A figure down 3% from last year

So, in fact the majority of Canadian according to the poll would want the abortion access expanded in order to have abortions available in Canada long after 3 months from conception.

here is your link again

http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/index.cfm/...em/itemID/13756

[Canadian Blue]

In your opinion, at what point in human development should the law protect human life?

2006

2005

From conception on

31%

30%

After three months of pregnancy

23%

19%

After six months of pregnancy

10%

11%

From the point of birth

30%

33%

Not sure

6%

6%

That poll tell's me that a majority of people would wish to see abortion's be banned after three months of pregnancy. I come to that conclusion since 31% favor from conception on, and then 23% favor after three month's of pregnancy. 31% plus 23% equals 54% who would wish to see abortion's limited to three month's or less. Understand my point.

No, yet again, I know you are only pretending to be less than intelligent, as you failed to post the whole poll, but here its is yet again:

No not really, I'm simply looking at what the poll says. So far it shows that around 54% would favour abortion's to be limited to pregnancies under three month's or less.

So, in fact the majority of Canadian according to the poll would want the abortion access expanded in order to have abortions available in Canada long after 3 months from conception.

That's called double speak, since according to the figures I have 54% believing that human life should be protected after three month's. What I did was add the 31% who said conception on, and the 23% who said three months on.

[Catchme]

Those who believe in NO choice, cannot be combined with those who know that women have the right to self determine. Simply does not work that way.

Choice = 64%

23% believe in abortions up to 3 months, in actual fact the poll should have specified 4 months as that is the first trimester used in Canada.

10% believe in abortions up to 6 months

30% believe in abortions from conception to birth.

Anti-choice who believe in NO abortions = 31%

The 31% stands alone. End of story. Anti-choice is Anti-Choice, you cannot compare apples and oranges nor add them together to make a sum that you want. That is what double speak is actually.

According to the poll results this is the way it should have been worded in synopsis:

23% of Canadians believe that abortion access should stay exactly as is

10% of Canadians believe that abortion access should be increased to 6 months

30% of Canadians believe that abortion access should be increased to time of birth

In conclusion, 40% of Canadians want abortion laws changed in Canada beyond the current 1st trimester access.

23% want NO change

While 31% want changes to no access to abortions.

Remember NEVER add choice %'s to no choice %'s it does not work.

[Canadian Blue]

Yes it does, because lets say this,

31% are strongly opposed to abortion

23% are somewhat opposed to abortion

If we were to say no abortion's should be performed after three month's then the 31% would probably support it, as well as the 23%. It's not that far fetched.

The 31% stands alone. End of story. Anti-choice is Anti-Choice, you cannot compare apples and oranges nor add them together to make a sum that you want. That is what double speak is actually.

Logic says, that they would be willing to support the 23% who want abortion to be limited within three month's, since that it more according to what they believe and reduce abortion rates.

Those who believe in NO choice, cannot be combined with those who know that women have the right to self determine. Simply does not work that way.

Yes it can, it's called compromise, obviously a term you have never heard of before.

[scribblet]

Yes it can, it's called compromise, obviously a term you have never heard of before.

Be you didn't know you were pretending to be, yet again, less than intelligent,

I believe myself that the majority would agree to restrictions on late term, that is for me, when the fetus becomes viable. In modern terms that would be around 19 weeks, ) probably with life support.)

There are a large number of people who will never agree with abortion on any terms, they firmly believe that the life of the baby should be protected at any cost. I would like to think that my belief would be a reasonable compromise.