Oda not welcome at provincial meeting on women's issues

[madmax]

You have no way to say they are medical emergencies. Before one can get free chemotherapy for cancer it must be determined that one actually has Cancer.

Once the doctor actually determines she is pregnant, it is between the women and her medical practitioner.

Anything else is NOYB.

[madmax]

Worse, I'm divorced. I'm not going through that shit show again.

LOL, I think I'm about to join you. I will know as soon as my wife starts talking to me.

[madmax]

I was merely responding to her unfounded claim that I am in the minority on this issue.

Understood, Regardless of how much I disagree.

[jefferiah]

To say that abortions are too costly is the stupidest argument I've heard so far. Do you have any idea what it costs to go through a pregnancy, give birth and raise a child? Roughly half a million! Now most these children will be born to teen moms, single moms and women who are not ready to emotionally and financially to support a child. Many of those teen moms will end up dropping out of school and will end up on welfare and in the lowest income levels. Kids raised in poor households and especially unwanted children are very likely to end up involved in crime and in jail. And of course conservatives will be the first to scream about welfare payments and crime. So you want to cut your cost of an abortion from $300 to $500K + increasing the number of miserable unwanted children + increased crime rates. You are a dumbass!

Oh, I know it is absolutely mind boggling, and all it is is uneducated and irrational blathering.

You are quite correct, when you say that these children will be born to teen moms, single moms and women who are not ready to emotionally and financially to support a child and in your commentary where they will end up. Here is just 1 study on poverty and crime rates, and google shows over a million hits about it, not that they will ever actually read it and inform themselves, as they want to hold their false doctrine close to their hearts even when proven wrong over and over again.

Just a quick google on adoption stats in Canada showed that there are approximately 134,000 children in foster care in Canada waiting for adoption and that there is another 22k or so in orphanages also waiting. Another google search showed me that it costs 40k per year to keep a child in foster care. Now don't get me wrong, I am certainly not advocating abortions as a cost savings to the taxpayer. I am merely pointing out the sheer nonsense, and hypocrisy of those who want to wage a war against a woman’s right to self determine based upon tax savings, and saying that all children are wanted and/or there is no way to prove how many born children are unwanted.

Likening any talk of associated costs to caring for an unwanted child to Nazi philosophy is beyond reprehensible, as they were the ones who were trying to frame the debate around cost savings to the tax payer in the first place.

A woman's right to self determine and to have equal access to universal health care are unquestionable rights.

Those who would seek to erode individual and human rights, based upon personal beliefs and mythology must be disregarded from having any input, just have they have been historically in regards to the same said reluctance to abolish slavery, and to stop denoting woman and non-whites as not being human or should not have the right to vote.

I must point out Catch Me that once again you are using the wrong statistic for your argument. How many of those poor kids had parents who wanted to abort them? A statistic about poor kids and crime has nothing to do with it? I asked for a statistic about kids who were unwanted. Even adoption cases wouldnt do because most of those would not be ones where the mother wanted to abort. You are basing an argument on kids who are already alive, not knowing whether abortion was even considered by the mother.

I was never suggesting that abortion was too costly, I was suggesting that its immoral to me and I want nothing to do with it. What do you mean individual rights and freedoms. Your whole premise is against individual rights and freedoms and in support of socialism. Abortion is legal. So if you think it is a right there is no one stopping you from having one. I have an individual right and freedom to be a conscientious objector. That is not infringing on anyones rights to have an abortion.

[madmax]

"Kids raised in poor households and especially unwanted children are very likely to end up involved in crime and in jail." Saturn

This combined with Catch Me's sentiments about giving fatties necessary health care. Hmmmmmm.......I am a bigot for saying a disagree with funding all abortion. But yet these ideas are not far from those of the Nazis.

I disagree with their arguments above. I think the examples given are foolish and poor. You are correct to question them.

I do not think you are a bigot either.

[jefferiah]

You have no way to say they are medical emergencies. Before one can get free chemotherapy for cancer it must be determined that one actually has Cancer.

Once the doctor actually determines she is pregnant, it is between the women and her medical practitioner.

Anything else is NOYB.

I am not stopping the woman from having an abortion. I am saying that in the charter there is allowance for publically funded abortion when it is determined necessary. If a woman wants to have an abortion, I believe it is wrong, but you are right (NOMB) I can't stop her. I am not trying to. Why cant I say NOYB if I dont support it.

[jefferiah]

"Kids raised in poor households and especially unwanted children are very likely to end up involved in crime and in jail." Saturn

This combined with Catch Me's sentiments about giving fatties necessary health care. Hmmmmmm.......I am a bigot for saying a disagree with funding all abortion. But yet these ideas are not far from those of the Nazis.

I disagree with their arguments above. I think the examples given are foolish and poor. You are correct to question them.

I do not think you are a bigot either.

Mad Max..............Thank You!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Catchme]

Your points have no bearing on anything, and the limited scope of your ability to process and project eventualities based on rational thought is limiting your ability to both see what IS being said, and to realize that those amounts of unwanted children currently in the system will increase exponentially.

How many are currently in the system only has bearing to show those who lie to themselves and say all children are wanted and that there are not many are in the system that they are again wrong. And to show that the amounts of unanted children will double, as will taxpayer costs. And please keep in mind this is NOT an argument as to why pro-choice should exist, because it is NOT. It is simply to show you how wrong in assumption and belief you are, yet again.

[Catchme]

"Kids raised in poor households and especially unwanted children are very likely to end up involved in crime and in jail." Saturn

This combined with Catch Me's sentiments about giving fatties necessary health care. Hmmmmmm.......I am a bigot for saying a disagree with funding all abortion. But yet these ideas are not far from those of the Nazis.

I disagree with their arguments above. I think the examples given are foolish and poor. You are correct to question them.

I do not think you are a bigot either.

Hey, nice blanket comments, your post is foolish and poor, you make an opinion comment, that is unsupported and expect that it should just be accepted as the word of God.

Most certainly you have a right to disagree and think what you want, but your inability or reluctance to support your opinion as to why, shows lack of character and cognitive abilities.

[Canadian Blue]

Perhap's abortion is simply "voluntary eugenics".

[madmax]

Hey, nice blanket comments, your post is foolish and poor, you make an opinion comment, that is unsupported and expect that it should just be accepted as the word of God.

Most certainly you have a right to disagree and think what you want, but your inability or reluctance to support your opinion as to why, shows lack of character and cognitive abilities.

They are not blanket comments. I disagreed with your analogies earlier. I don't think that pointing fingers at other groups supports your arguments for unfettered public access to abortion. It is only distractive and unproductive.

This is my opinion, I don't believe I have to prove my opinion. I do believe challenging fat people to public medical care, is counter productive. I am not going to split hairs, of treating smokers, people whom work in dangerous workplaces, or those whom ski, or get into a car accident as to whether they deserve medical care. I find this just as disturbing.

Like I said, this medical service is between a doctor and the patient.

And Jefferiah and myself are going to disagee on everything else about it.

As for the word of GOD? hmm.... How flattering.

[Catchme]

Hey, nice blanket comments, your post is foolish and poor, you make an opinion comment, that is unsupported and expect that it should just be accepted as the word of God.

Most certainly you have a right to disagree and think what you want, but your inability or reluctance to support your opinion as to why, shows lack of character and cognitive abilities.

They are not blanket comments. I disagreed with your analogies earlier. I don't think that pointing fingers at other groups supports your arguments for unfettered public access to abortion. It is only distractive and unproductive.

This is my opinion, I don't believe I have to prove my opinion. I do believe challenging fat people to public medical care, is counter productive. I am not going to split hairs, of treating smokers, people whom work in dangerous workplaces, or those whom ski, or get into a car accident as to whether they deserve medical care. I find this just as disturbing.

Like I said, this medical service is between a doctor and the patient.

And Jefferiah and myself are going to disagee on everything else about it.

As for the word of GOD? hmm.... How flattering.

Actually, I was not really making analogies, I was pointing out how slippery the right to access universal health care was, and once one opened that can of worms for one segment of the population it would/could be opened for others. I was not drawing an actual compare between the 2. There is no compare to choice other than by way of eroding/removal of rights.

No, I do not think it is distractive or unproductive, but then again that is just a woman's perspective!

[jefferiah]

Your points have no bearing on anything, and the limited scope of your ability to process and project eventualities based on rational thought is limiting your ability to both see what IS being said, and to realize that those amounts of unwanted children currently in the system will increase exponentially.

How many are currently in the system only has bearing to show those who lie to themselves and say all children are wanted and that there are not many are in the system that they are again wrong. And to show that the amounts of unanted children will double, as will taxpayer costs. And please keep in mind this is NOT an argument as to why pro-choice should exist, because it is NOT. It is simply to show you how wrong in assumption and belief you are, yet again.

The point is if these unwanted children are for the most part not children of people who even wanted abortions then the only way to use this as a support for abortion, would be as population control in which you are telling women to go get abortions. Thats why we said your point was bad. If these unwanted children are mostly the children of women who dont want abortions but choose to give them up for adoption, they will still be there, unless you start setting abortion quotas in which a woman is being told what to do with her body. Otherwise your unwanted children argument is useless.

[Canadian Blue]

Actually, I was not really making analogies, I was pointing out how slippery the right to access universal health care was, and once one opened that can of worms for one segment of the population it would/could be opened for others. I was not drawing an actual compare between the 2. There is no compare to choice other than by way of eroding/removal of rights.

No, I do not think it is distractive or unproductive, but then again that is just a woman's perspective!

Do you like to think your a victim all the time...

What about the right to life?

Some people consider that an important right, and believe that a fetus is a human life.

[Saturn]

What about the right to life?

Some people consider that an important right, and believe that a fetus is a human life.

And some believe that the earth is the center of the universe and that it's 6,000 years old. Others believe that humans are just an experiment carried out by a superior alien race. What some believe doesn't matter, unless it reflects reality. There is a commonly accepted definition of a person and of being alive (it's kind of convenient to bury people only when they are not alive) and a fetus doesn't satisfy that definition.

[Saturn]

The point is if these unwanted children are for the most part not children of people who even wanted abortions then the only way to use this as a support for abortion, would be as population control in which you are telling women to go get abortions. Thats why we said your point was bad. If these unwanted children are mostly the children of women who dont want abortions but choose to give them up for adoption, they will still be there, unless you start setting abortion quotas in which a woman is being told what to do with her body. Otherwise your unwanted children argument is useless.

Are you drunk? This doesn't make any sense.

[Catchme]

What about the right to life?

Some people consider that an important right, and believe that a fetus is a human life.

And some believe that the earth is the center of the universe and that it's 6,000 years old. Others believe that humans are just an experiment carried out by a superior alien race. What some believe doesn't matter, unless it reflects reality. There is a commonly accepted definition of a person and of being alive (it's kind of convenient to bury people only when they are not alive) and a fetus doesn't satisfy that definition.

Amazing isn't that some people actually think their "beliefs" trump other peoples actual rights?!

What tees me off even more, is when you explain what you mean, and what you DON'T mean and they still insist on telling you what you mean, when of course that is what they want you to mean because of their poorly educated belief patterns.

[jefferiah]

The point is if these unwanted children are for the most part not children of people who even wanted abortions then the only way to use this as a support for abortion, would be as population control in which you are telling women to go get abortions. Thats why we said your point was bad. If these unwanted children are mostly the children of women who dont want abortions but choose to give them up for adoption, they will still be there, unless you start setting abortion quotas in which a woman is being told what to do with her body. Otherwise your unwanted children argument is useless.

Are you drunk? This doesn't make any sense.

If women are putting them up for adoption I am guessing they for the most part did not want abortions right. So------the "unwanted kids" will still be there.

[jefferiah]

Amazing isn't that some people actually think their "beliefs" trump other peoples actual rights?--Catch Me

Our belief is not trumping what you see as a right---abortion is legal. Your belief that everyone should pay for it when not all cases are essential (and its already paid for in cases where a doctor does consider it medically essential) is trumping our right to self determine whether we want to fund it.

"when of course that is what they want you to mean because of their poorly educated belief patterns"---Catch Me

Is there no end to your snobbery and lack of respect? You claim to be such an "esoteric" person, there are "red necks" who have never even seen the word that are more esoteric than you.

[jefferiah]

"It my right to do this" This is one thing

"Its my right that you condone it and pay for it." This is a whole other thing.

[jefferiah]

And furthermore we are beginning to see cases of -----"This is my right. Lets pass a law that says people cannot vocally express individual moral objection to it, that they must condone it, or else they are guilty of a Hate Crime." And all the while they accuse you of forcing your beliefs on them.

[blueblood]

Is there no end to your snobbery and lack of respect? You claim to be such an "esoteric" person, there are "red necks" who have never even seen the word that are more esoteric than you.

I'm a redneck, care to enlighten me what esoteric means?

[jefferiah]

It means you have special knowledge limited to a few people. In this case I kind of used it wrong, since I dont actually believe in it---but actually I think red necks are very intelligent, and they possess a logic which alot of cultured people don't. I am a hick as well.

[jefferiah]

I had to look up mysogynist.

[jefferiah]

And you were right Saturn. Well, I wasnt drunk, but those sentences were put together pretty sloppily.