What is Freemasonry ?

[Catchme]

Websters 1965 dictionary

Religion;ri-lij-on [Fr religion,L.religio,religionis,perhaps from prefix re,and stem meaning to care for,to respect,allied to Gr.elego to heed] The feeling of reverence which men entertain toward a supreme being;God as an object of worship,love,and obedience;

Some here do not mind bending to the will of men or woman,yet reject the teachings of the Father.

Does any one see why there own children won't listen

What is your point of posting a 1965 Websters definition of religion? Particulariliy when it uses only the "male" component in its definition analogy.

The quote definition I gave was actually from Merriam Websters on line. The study of languages, linguistics, has came along way since 1965, as have a lot of things.

However, I did look at Websters on line and got this:

1. A strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny; "he lost his faith but not his morality".

2. Institution to express belief in a divine power; "he was raised in the Baptist religion"; "a member of his own faith contradicted him".

It also noted the word religion was not used until the 12th century.

And its deverse definition is:

1. An organized belief system based on certain tenets of faith. 2. A belief in a supreme supernatural force or god(s).

http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/...nition/religion

What teachings of what Father are people ignoring? And what is the point of saying "do you see why their own children do not listen"? It has nothing todo with the topic at hand.

[jefferiah]

Thats funny Catch Me......that was your Websters Defnition---he replied to a specific post---that was part of the text of the quotes of previous posters

[jefferiah]

Oh excuse me Catch Me, I was wrong there. You were right. That was his own Webster's citation.

But then again---and not that I am using this as a point---it could be said that it has some relevance since---well....when was the Encyclopedia of Freemasonry written, pray tell?

[Catchme]

Oh excuse me Catch Me, I was wrong there. You were right. That was his own Webster's citation.

But then again---and not that I am using this as a point---it could be said that it has some relevance since---well....when was the Encyclopedia of Freemasonry written, pray tell?

But you see the encyclopedia, addresses the facts on Masonic history, not the same thing as a dictionary.

[jefferiah]

Once again I must note that I am not using it as a point. But what I meant was if the Encyclopedia describes freemasonry as a religion and it was written prior to 1965, this could have been what he was pointing out. You see.

[scribblet]

But let me ask you the same thing I asked M. Dancer. If all these sites are posers, are they part of some elaborate "conspiracy" to make phoney masonic documents and post them on phoney masonic websites in order to defame the order. Is that what you assert?

I tried to do a whois on that site but it came up domain not found, I don't know who wrote it or if it is genuine.

All I know is from my own experience and numerous people I know who are in the masons, none of whom are into conspiracy theories or whatever. Today, Masons accept people of all religions and all walks of life, "all they have to do is believe in a God, and aim to become a better person. All men I know are involved in charity work. It may be that masons have been involved in various activities way back when, but are sure not the evil or whatever people are trying to portray them as these days. The masons whom I know are teachers, plumbers, electricians etc, from all walks of life, who find this kind of stuff quite humorous.

"Combine the supposed 'secrecy' of three centuries of Masonry (and be sure to ignore the hundreds of exposes and about a hundred thousand books on the subject), toss in ONE supposed murder (180 years ago? With 'facts' still unproven despite exhaustive investigation....), stir in some "bloody oaths" along with some secret symbols and PRESTO: you've got yourself a Masonic conspiracy.

When you add these things together with the other 'shadowy' groups (like the Bildeburgers, CIA, Trilateral Commission, OTO, and any others you might think of), it's so very easy to create - THE CONSPIRACY!!!"

http://www.wrprovince.co.uk/Pages/Charity_..._6th_Dec_05.htm

Welcome to these introductory pages regarding Charity and Freemasonry, which has been working in the Province of Yorkshire, West Riding for 146 years.

The cornerstone upon which Freemasonry rests is that of Brotherly love, relief and truth. Put in more practical terms what does this mean?"

Why don't you check out your local Masonic guild or get to know a few of them. Me, I'm looking forward to their next spring dance.

[Catchme]

The cornerstone upon which Freemasonry rests is that of Brotherly love, relief and truth. Put in more practical terms what does this mean?"

Sexism, control, and truth

[jefferiah]

Lol Catch Me

[scribblet]

Sexism - well, it is a male frat. club, but so what, if the boys want their own club, let them have it.

Control - over what - nothing other than their own business in the club.

Truth - they strive for it

[scribblet]

P.S.

There is a plethora of masonic sites out there which are either pro or con. An educated mason would know the legitimacy of the text while a non-mason would only be at the mercy of ignorance and/or propaganda. This in turn lends itself to conjecture and more conspiracy theories. If you really want to make inroads and learn, join and find out. The report back here -

.

[jefferiah]

No I will not join, Sir. I want nothing to do with them. I am not asserting any conspiracy theory either. YOu know you keep mentioning the CFR and Trilateral Commission and Bilderbergers when I never even brought these things up. And I think I have made it very very clear that I dont think the majority of masons are bad people, I just think the philosophy at the core is heretical---and would fall under the category of strange teaching which people are warned about in the Bible. There are many churches both Catholic and Protestant which express their concern about this, and they have done their research.

Look Scriblett be honest and direct. The website I gave was an online Magazine For Freemasons by Freemasons. If this magazine is a sham, who is making it and why? You are the one who will be forced to theorize conspiracy.

[scribblet]

No I will not join, Sir. I want nothing to do with them. I am not asserting any conspiracy theory either. YOu know you keep mentioning the CFR and Trilateral Commission and Bilderbergers when I never even brought these things up. And I think I have made it very very clear that I dont think the majority of masons are bad people, I just think the philosophy at the core is heretical---and would fall under the category of strange teaching which people are warned about in the Bible. There are many churches both Catholic and Protestant which express their concern about this, and they have done their research.

Look Scriblett be honest and direct. The website I gave was an online Magazine For Freemasons by Freemasons. If this magazine is a sham, who is making it and why? You are the one who will be forced to theorize conspiracy.

I didn't say it was a sham, and I havn't mention any trilateral commission whatever that is. From what I know and the people I know, there is no heretical (whatever than means too) philosophy, all that is required is that you acknowledge the existence of a God, it can be the Christian God, it an be Allah, it can whatever you God is. And the core teaching that all men can be better surely isn't heretical or wrong.

Personally I think the majority of guys are in it for the socialization and charity work, they think all the rumours and innuendo are a real hoot, they love to keep it all a big secret and keep people guessing.

[M.Dancer]

Personally I think the majority of guys are in it for the socialization and charity work, they think all the rumours and innuendo are a real hoot, they love to keep it all a big secret and keep people guessing.

Bingo.

But of course there are a huge number of people who are gullible and think the Masons are; the hiers to the Knights Templar, the Illuminati, a splinter of the Rosicrucians, a gnostic sect, etc etc etc.......

..when really they are nothing more or less than a Lion's Club but with an older pedigree...

[jefferiah]

When you add these things together with the other 'shadowy' groups (like the Bildeburgers, CIA, Trilateral Commission, OTO, and any others you might think of), it's so very easy to create - THE CONSPIRACY!!!"---Scriblett

You did mention trilateral commission and bilderbergers. The reason i point this out is that you were arguing against something i was not even saying.

Either that site really is a Magazine by Freemasons for Freemasons or it is a sham. And if it is not a sham the doctrine contained in the literature is heretical.

[jefferiah]

I never said anything about a conspiracy. So leave that out of it.

[M.Dancer]

Either that site really is a Magazine by Freemasons for Freemasons or it is a sham. And if it is not a sham the doctrine contained in the literature is heretical.

I'm not going to concern myself with unofficial web sites that say this or that or the other thing......I just think it's hilarious that you can so easily pronounce something heretical.....as if you hold the divine knowledge of what is orthodox?

The Roman Catholic Church used to say that Anabaptist's were heretical...Some Baptists and other protestants say that the RC church is the Antichrist.....

bah...anyone who claims absolute knowledge is humbug, and you can take that to the Illuminati controlled world bank.......

[Catchme]

Personally I think the majority of guys are in it for the socialization and charity work, they think all the rumours and innuendo are a real hoot, they love to keep it all a big secret and keep people guessing.

Bingo. But of course there are a huge number of people who are gullible and think the Masons are; the hiers to the Knights Templar, the Illuminati, a splinter of the Rosicrucians, a gnostic sect, etc etc etc.......

..when really they are nothing more or less than a Lion's Club but with an older pedigree...

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL, and jefferaih if you believe that which is bolded, I have some land for ya!

However, jefferaih you are wrong about them being heretical, whatever that means in truth anyway

Truly, people should learn history, esp the Council of Nicea, and what was going on before that, and what happened during it and after. Formulate a fact based picture of how religions got to be where they are today, and how, and what came before.

There have also been 2 women Masons in their history.

[jefferiah]

Either that site really is a Magazine by Freemasons for Freemasons or it is a sham. And if it is not a sham the doctrine contained in the literature is heretical.

I'm not going to concern myself with unofficial web sites that say this or that or the other thing......I just think it's hilarious that you can so easily pronounce something heretical.....as if you hold the divine knowledge of what is orthodox?

The Roman Catholic Church used to say that Anabaptist's were heretical...Some Baptists and other protestants say that the RC church is the Antichrist.....

bah...anyone who claims absolute knowledge is humbug, and you can take that to the Illuminati controlled world bank.......

Once again M. Dancer you fail to leave Illuminati out of it, when it is not even the issue at hand. You seem to have a problem with this. Why is that?

I understand that my definition of heretical may not be the same as yours (as if I have the divine knowledge of what is orthodox---you are right in saying this I dont). But nonetheless in the school I am from and many people belong to that school, I would say this qualifies as heretical. There may be other people of my school. And certainly I think there is. What is the problem here? I am not preventing anyone from joining your club.

[jefferiah]

Masons in general are numerous and I dont think they are bad people. However, given the content of some masonic writings, including those of Manly Palmer Hall (a Canadian) and also Albert Pike, I don't think I would want to be involved with them whatever they are. Many people from all religions belong to Masonic groups, however I do feel that their core teachings undermine all these religions and amount to a brand of paganism.

Now look here is my initial post. You will note that I start of by saying there are lots of masons and they are not bad people. You will note that I said I would not want to be involved as because I "feel" that the core teachings undermine all religions. You will note that I say I would not want to be involved with them. You will note that I stated my reasons why I personally feel they are heretical and that they are there for anyone to mull over. I am not banning the Masons.

You will also note that I don't say anything about the Illuminati or Trilateral Commission or the Bilderbergers. You will note that the first mention of these things come from people who were in argument with me. You will note that Scriblett denies mentioning the Trilateral Commission on page 5 when he mentioned them in a post on Page 4.

[scribblet]

Bingo. But of course there are a huge number of people who are gullible and think the Masons are; the hiers

However, jefferaih you are wrong about them being heretical, whatever that means in truth anyway

Truly, people should learn history, esp the Council of Nicea, and what was going on before that, and what happened during it and after. Formulate a fact based picture of how religions got to be where they are today, and how, and what came before.

There have also been 2 women Masons in their history.

Maybe because as a female you cannot join, you feel slighted, otherwise, there is nothing to prove that today Masons are nothing but a frat club, albeit which does charity work. Unless you are a mason or married to one and have insights no one else does, you actually know nothing factual about them except maybe if you read a genuine site.

http://www.grandlodge.on.ca/

[stignasty]

http://www.grandlodge.on.ca/

From the link:

"Masonry is NOT a religion or a substitute for religion; however, every candidate must affirm a belief in a single Supreme Being."

Well I'm out.

[Catchme]

Maybe because as a female you cannot join, you feel slighted, otherwise, there is nothing to prove that today Masons are nothing but a frat club, albeit which does charity work. Unless you are a mason or married to one and have insights no one else does, you actually know nothing factual about them except maybe if you read a genuine site.

Actually know most everything factual about them, yesterday and today. There has never been a time where my male family memebrs have not been Masons, and some have been provincial Grandmasters. I can go back to the Jacobite Rebellion and beyond with family affiliation. Also, my Sophia mentor's father was a Canadian - - or GrandMaster and a Supreme Court Justice.

My issue is, and I have argued this for decades, that the time of hermetic knowledge and truths is past. Both at the Masonic and Sophia levels. And truly Masons ARE NOT allowed to speak outside their brotherhood regarding inside facts. In fact, the level of knowledge and disclosure between the degrees of the Masonic Order do not afford knowledge transference of inner workings from the most advanced levels to the initiate level.