Baaaaaaa (Belgium-stan Special)

[jbg]

Baaaaaa humbug (link) say some Belgians to ritual sacrifice in center-city Brussels. Then again, to some, it's Biblical-era Negev North. Except these people also still do child sacrifice (as G-d prevented Abraham from doing). They now call child sacrifice "jihad".

But back to the sheep. Excerpts below (link to article)

PAGE ONE

Ritual Sacrifice?

Not on My Street,

Some Belgians Say

Muslim Tradition Stirs

Ire of Animal Activists;

Seat-Belting a Sheep

By MARY JACOBY

January 4, 2007; Page A1

BRUSSELS -- At a slaughterhouse here last week, Mohamed Mimoun wrestled a sheep between his legs and took a number. He gasped: It was a two-hour wait to sacrifice his animal for Eid al-Adha, an important Islamic religious festival.

*snip*

Brussels' Muslim population has grown to more than 15% of the city's one million inhabitants, and what began two decades ago as a debate over animal welfare and hygiene has been transformed into a test of political might. The result is a stalemate.

"We have the right to practice our religion," says Coskun Beyazgül, head of the Muslim Executive Office, a state-sponsored Islamic authority.

While Muslim authorities in France sanction the use of electronic stunning methods, Muslim authorities in Belgium forbid it. For the sacrifice to be completed in accordance with Islam, says Mr. Beyazgül, the lamb must die from a loss of blood while its head is turned toward Mecca in Saudi Arabia, birthplace of the Prophet Muhammad. Stunning the animals before slitting their throats, he says, could lead to the animal dying prematurely, against Islamic principles.

Mr. Beyazgül is also against making donations of money to charity in lieu of sacrificing a live animal, as many Muslims do in the U.S. and other countries. He adds that Muslims here ignore the home-slaughtering ban because Belgian authorities aren't willing to invest in enough capacity at legal slaughtering facilities.

While similar conflicts play out across Europe, the tensions are particularly acute in Brussels, Europe's political capital. Unlike France and other nations with large Muslim minorities, Muslims in Belgium aren't concentrated in ghettos outside major cities; they often live side-by-side with EU officials and other professionals in gentrifying urban neighborhoods.

One man got his lamb home last year on a leash. "It looked like his pet," says Pierre-Yves Lambert, a local political commentator and social worker. "But everyone knew where it was going."

To ease the strain on slaughterhouses, city leaders have suggested the Muslim community spread out the sacrifice over the three days of the festival, which ended this year on Jan. 1. Nothing doing, says Mr. Beyazgül. "Everyone wants to kill their sheep in the morning of the first day," he says. "They want to eat their sheep for lunch."

The rush to slaughter so many sheep within hours led to catastrophe during last year's festival. A temporary slaughterhouse became overwhelmed with long lines and malfunctioning water and drainage systems. In a hurry to get home, some celebrants began slaughtering sheep on top of live sheep as large pools of blood formed.

So who do the leftists champion this time, the animal rights activists, those that want carnal relations with sheep, or the radical Muslims (who won't abide local law)?

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear jbg,

Ever see a rabbi kill a cow so that it's kosher? Not pretty. I'll stand with the health authorities on this one, and against kooky religious ritualisms from all denominations.

[M.Dancer]

Don't care. Goat is good, especially in a Roti. Just don't let the Goats post....

[jbg]

Dear jbg,

Ever see a rabbi kill a cow so that it's kosher? Not pretty. I'll stand with the health authorities on this one, and against kooky religious ritualisms from all denominations.

I know. I have nothing against the method of slaughter. I have a real problem with their defiance of local law though. And I have a real problem when it extends to child sacrifice in a manner severely prejudicial to the lives of others.

[geoffrey]

Dear jbg,

Ever see a rabbi kill a cow so that it's kosher? Not pretty. I'll stand with the health authorities on this one, and against kooky religious ritualisms from all denominations.

Pardon my ignorance, but how is that done? There can't be blood in the meat correct?

[jbg]

Dear jbg,

Ever see a rabbi kill a cow so that it's kosher? Not pretty. I'll stand with the health authorities on this one, and against kooky religious ritualisms from all denominations.

Pardon my ignorance, but how is that done? There can't be blood in the meat correct?

I'm actually not sure. I'll see if anyone knows at my (Reform) temple.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear geoffrey (and jbg),

Pardon my ignorance, but how is that done? There can't be blood in the meat correct?

I'm actually not sure. I'll see if anyone knows at my (Reform) temple

All animals should be bled upon slaughter, as the blood and fatty deposits left in the meat make it decompose faster. However, as I understand it, the Rabbi 'bleeds it' with the cow's head in a stock, and uses a large machete to slit the throat about 3/4 of the way through. It kicks up a helluva fuss, but not for long. The point is, it was killed and bled by the hands of a rabbi (therefore, making it religiously and 'scripturally' acceptable for consumption). The Muslim equivalent is 'halal'.

The rituals for 'kashrut' can be simple or incredibly kooky or complex. Here are some for utensils, etc.

http://www.star-k.org/cons-appr-tvilaskelim.htm

I have read that to make an electric kettle 'kosher', you take it apart, (immerse it if you can) and have it re-assembled by a Jew. Then it's ok.

Please look up these things yourself, because I may be full of shit. It happened once before

[jbg]

The rituals for 'kashrut' can be simple or incredibly kooky or complex. Here are some for utensils, etc.

http://www.star-k.org/cons-appr-tvilaskelim.htm

I have read that to make an electric kettle 'kosher', you take it apart, (immerse it if you can) and have it re-assembled by a Jew. Then it's ok.

Please look up these things yourself, because I may be full of shit. It happened once before

I haven't checked. But I am a Reform rather than Orthodox Jew for exactly these reasons; the rituals are unduly complex, more likely than not honored in the breach rather than usually, and bear little relation to any modern purpose.

Some of the ancient purpose was health related. Other was simply to prevent Jews from integrating into and merging with surrounding societies. Neither is particularly applicable or needed today, if we can avoid assimilating out of existence.

[betsy]

So who do the leftists champion this time, the animal rights activists, those that want carnal relations with sheep, or the radical Muslims (who won't abide local law)?

I must say, it sure is hard to be a leftie these days. They're bombarded with dilemmas ....

I'd be surprised if you got a straight answer....they're reeling from all these!

[jbg]

So who do the leftists champion this time, the animal rights activists, those that want carnal relations with sheep, or the radical Muslims (who won't abide local law)?

I must say, it sure is hard to be a leftie these days. They're bombarded with dilemmas ....

I'd be surprised if you got a straight answer....they're reeling from all these!

I'm a left winger who seems to have little trouble. I simply believe that people should obey local law, and such law should reflect what the people want.

[Argus]

Any religion that extols ritual sacrifice is barbaric.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear Argus,

Any religion that extols ritual sacrifice is barbaric.

Even of animals?

[jbg]

Dear Argus,

Any religion that extols ritual sacrifice is barbaric.

Even of animals?

The abolition of ritual sacrifice was a great unintended benefit of the destruction of the Temple, and one of the reasons why the two great monotheistic religions have progressed to the extent they have.

The death cult is another story.