Unlocking Locked in Pension's ( LIF, LIRF, LIRA )

[Bill C]

Federal Pension LIF 50% Unlocking

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi All; I am just updating you on what is happening in case you haven't seen this. It is time to get after the Ontario Liberals again as now the Federal government has allowed 50% unlocking of Federal locked in pensions.

This is a letter I just received from Bill Gleberzon of CARP.

The 2008 Federal Budget has a number of good improvements for LIF-holders. The following paragraph is from our analysis of the budget:

"Choices for federally regulated Locked-In Fund (LIF) - holders, such as, for those 55 years or older, conversion of up to $22,450 into to a tax deferred saving vehicle as well as an one time conversion of up to 50% of the principal into a tax deferred savings vehicle with no maximum withdrawal limits – also the option to unlock up to $22,450 for those with financial hardship."

This is not only good for federally regulated LIF holders but for our campaign in Ontario as an enhancement that the Ontario Government should adopt -- from unlocking $25% to unlocking 50% as well as increasing the amount that can be unlocked to $22,450.

Key in to the Federal Department of Finance and go to The Federal Budget Index under LIfe Income Funds.

Regards Bill Costello

[Bill C]

Hi ;

I am still hearing of people going to their Financial institutions to unlock their pensions 25% and are being told they have to wait.

I have went into mine. RBC and they are set up for unlocking.

Here is what I have found out ! The advisors have not been given any instructions to advise their clients of a problem a person may run into if they are currently drawing a monthly income from their fund.

((If You transfer into a New LIF and unlock your 25% now. You will have to advise your institution that you want the remainder of this years income ))

You will not be able to draw on the New LIF until January 2009.

If you do not take the money out first it will be rolled back into your locked in account and the 25% taken out of the total. This would cause a loss of X number of dollars that you could have taken out of the locked in fund.

There is another Catch ! The money that you would normally take out as monthly income has to be taken out as a lump sum. (( Note the Money I am talking about is not your 25% but is the percentage for this year that you are allowed))

Taking it out as a lump sum then disqualifies it as Pension income and therefore disqualifies it for income splitting.

If a person does not need the 25% immediately . One way to make every thing Qualify is to leave your money in your locked in fund until you have taken your second last payment out. (( November or early December )) and then transfer into your new LIF before January 2009.

This way your monthly payments will start again in January 2009 Calculated on the remaining locked in amount.

I am not a Financial advisor and this information was arrived at by sitting down with my advisor and discussing the issue,

Each individual may have a different circumstance so it is Best to talk to your advisor.

The only thing you sould remember Your advisor may not be fully informed by their institutions on all the facts,

My advisor was only given instructions to deal with the LIF (( Nothing else )).

Regards Bill

[Bill C]

Hi Everybody;

Here is a artile that Grant has sent out to a number of papers .

Locked-In Pensions: Live Poor Die Rich

March 17, 2008

Many retirees today living with locked-in pensions are barely getting by and are increasingly becoming poorer with each round of rate hikes of their most basic needs. Some are often faced with no other choice but to give up the home they’ve worked for all their lives in order to obtain additional money just to survive.

The real costs facing seniors, especially in the current economic climate, are escalating uncontrollably due in large part to the rising price of energy to heat their homes, gasoline for their cars, water and sewer charges, endless property tax hikes and the rising costs for food.

If you are one of these people depending on your Ontario regulated LIF or LRIF pension to see you through these tough times, the money in your locked-in pension will outlive 99.9% of you. That’s right, according to Statistics Canada, less than one half of one percent of our seniors will ever reach 90 years of age, which is the age that you would get the final 50% of the balance of the money in your locked-in pension. Therefore, 99.9% of you with LIF’s or LRIF’s will certainly die with at least 50% of your pension money left behind to your successor all the while living out your golden years staring into your pension fund without ever getting to actually use the bulk of it. Even at the average life expectancy of 78 for a male and 82 for a female, the government still only allows a paltry 11 to 12% annual access to your locked-in pension at those ages. This is why you will certainly live poor and die rich when it comes to your locked-in pension.

The Ontario government, which regulates access to your locked-in pensions, is out of touch with the 6% annual access it grants seniors to their own pension money. They appear oblivious to the plight of these pensioners and provide no practical means to increase the rate of access to those with locked-in pensions to meet the ever-increasing real cost of living. While other provinces and the Federal government allow from 50% to 100% access to their regulated locked-in pensions, the Ontario government continues to remain far behind with a one-time access of only 25%. They continue to ignore and refuse to listen to the will of its seniors who are seeking 100% access to their locked-in pensions instead of remaining shackled with this out-dated indifferent legislation.

This is completely unacceptable and cruel to those seniors who would normally be able to afford to keep up with the rising cost of living if greater or full access to their locked-in pensions would be made available to them as was done for 61 Ontario MPP’s back in 1999 when they passed legislation that unlocked their own locked-in pensions. The Liberal government today, continues to support the double standard that it’s current leader hypocritically and eloquently denounced back in 1999 when legislation was passed to exclusively unlock MPP’s pensions 100% while ignoring all other Ontarians with similar pensions.

Further, the Ontario government is clearly inconsistent with its own economic strategies when on one hand it allows providers of essential services to set their own pricing based on the free market model of supply and demand, and on the other hand, through discriminatory and archaic legislation, prevents it’s senior population from keeping up to these market driven rising costs by fixing a limited amount of access to their private locked-in pensions. How can this paradox be allowed to continue when those with locked-in pensions aren’t allowed the same freedom of access to their pensions to keep up with the market’s unrestricted freedom to set pricing of goods, services, taxes and other basic necessities.

The current policies and philosophy regarding locked-in pensions were developed back in the day when the day-to-day costs of these basic necessities rarely rose at all. Those days are long gone, but the outdated legislation governing Ontario’s locked-in pensions are not. Tight government interference with seniors’ private locked-in pensions simply must be eliminated in order to allow these folks a fighting chance to keep up with the ever increasing real cost of living, especially when they don’t often have any other means to increase their income other than through their LIF or LRIF pensions.

The Ontario government’s insistence on limiting its seniors ability to manage these burgeoning costs with its paternalism over their own pension money is bordering on white collar elder abuse and is outright shameful. This government is completely out of touch with its senior population and continues to ignore private members bills, lobbying by private citizens, prominent financial experts such as Jack Mintz, Malcolm Hamilton, Gordon Pape etc., petitions with thousands of signatures, CARP and the Ontario Coalition of Independent LIF Holders.

It’s time for the Ontario government to do as Saskatchewan did in 2002 and eliminate locked-in pensions altogether thereby allowing 100% access to Ontario seniors’ private pensions and thus the opportunity to keep up with the spiralling personal cost of living by managing the money in their own LIF and LRIF pensions as they see fit.

Ultimately, if the Ontario government does not abolish these archaic "out of touch" regulations and end the control over its seniors’ LIF’s and LRIF’s, 99.9% of Ontarians with locked-in pensions will surely continue to live poorly and die rich, leaving the majority of their money behind that could have been used to provide them with the quality of life they’ve earned for themselves while alive.

Grant Fleury,

Ontario Coalition of Independent LIF Holders

Sudbury

[Bill C]

A Letter on Deaf ears

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Everybody;

Well here is another letter sent out to a government that doesn't really care what the people of Ontario want.

Apparently all they want to do is line their pockets. After voting them selves a 35% raise just before Christmas , they are lining their pockets again with another raise. They are the highest paid MPP's in Canada.

Maybe that is why they refuse to unlock our money.

They need that money when each senior passes away and they tax their estate at the highest rate so that they will be able to keep their pockets full of money.

Hon Dalton McGuinty; ???????

Dear Dalton ;

As you may have noticed . The Federal Government is now going to allow the unlocking of 50% of Federal Locked-in pensions in Canada.

This means that well over 50% of the Citizens of Canada will have a privilege that is being denied to the Citizens of Ontario.

Federal 50% , Alberta 50% , Saskatchewan 100% , Manitoba 50% ,((( Ontario 25% )))

I have heard that British Columbia is also considering unlocking 50%.

Your past Finance Minister Greg Sorbara during a interview concerning locked-in pensions in answer to the Question

" Do senior citizens really need protection from unscrupulous investors?"

On a CBC Radio interview Stated .

" I don't think that this has any thing to do with protecting senior citizens from investors whether unscrupulous or not. "

Your Now Current Finance Minister Dwight Duncan now States . " the Ontario government is concerned that full unlocking of locked-in accounts could put retirement income at risk. The rational is simple , these funds are important in ensuring that seniors are provided with a regular income stream throughout retirement despite the uncertainty of an individuals life expectancy , future investment ,returns and inflation."

It appears that your Finance Ministers answers depend on is if there is a election or not.

Before a election Your government isn't concerned if a Senior is capable of looking after their own funds . ((( I would like to remind you this is our own funds )))

Now that the election is over Your government is saying in a nice way that only the Seniors in Ontario are to Stupid to look after their ((( OWN FUNDS ))) Not government money !!!

We were smart enough to save money for retirement. We are also smart enough to use it and invest it wisely.

PEOPLE AND ORGANIZATIONS THAT SUPPORT UNLOCKING LOCKED IN PENSIONS 100% .

Jack M. Mintz Professor Of Business Economics ,Rotman School of Management ,

Malcolm Hamilton,Actuary ,Mercer Human Resource Consulting Toronto ,

Gordon Pape , Renowned Financial Expert ,

One Thousand Eight Hundred Signatures on the online Petition that has requested that the Government of Ontario Unlock LIRF , LIRA , LIF 100%

CD Howe Institute , Canadian Economic And Social Policy Think Tank,

CARP , National Advocacy Organization For The 50 Plus , 250,000 members in Ontario ,

The Common Front For Retirement Security , 2 Million Members across Canada .

The Ontario Coalition of Independent Locked-in Fund Holders ,

Ontario Coalition of Senior Citizens Organizations.

My Question Is why does the Liberal Government of Ontario Refuse to unlock Locked-in Pensions 100 %.

Especially when A good Number of Current Liberal MPP'S will enjoy this Privilege at the age of 55 or when they retire.

Bill Costello

[Bill C]

Hi Everybody;

I just thought that I would let everybody know that the 50 plus site has opened up a forum strictly on pensions. It would be a good place to check out if you have questions on any pensions as hopefully some one there will respond and help you out.

http://discuss.50plus.com/ipb/index.php...

Take Care Bill C

[Bill C]

Ontario A Have Not Province

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi folks,

Copying everyone on the May email sent to each of the 107 MPPs and various newspapers in Ontario.

Regards,

Bill Nafziger

Ontario is a “Have Not Province” for Seniors with Locked-in Pensions.

During 1999, MPPs in Ontario and Saskatchewan discussed the consequences of locked-in pensions for their retirees.

Dalton McGuinty eloquently expressed the unfairness of locked-in pensions, commenting on Ontario Seniors as “getting down on their bended knee asking for their own pension money”, as evidenced in the 1999 Hansard.

The discussions in Ontario resulted in 61 MPPs of all parties unlocking their pensions in 2000, but denying the same right to all other Ontarians with locked-in pensions.

Saskatchewan’s decision in 2002 was to unlock 100% of their locked-in pensions for their retirees.

"There'll be no restrictions on the amount of withdrawal that can come out," says David Wild, superintendent of pensions.

"Anyone with a locked-in retirement account will have the option of moving monies to a RRIF [registered retirement income fund] at retirement. Anyone who already has a LIF or an LRIF in Saskatchewan will have that money in a RRIF immediately. So the LIF and LRIF will no longer exist."

According to Wild, retirees, financial planners and financial institutions had become "frustrated" with LIF and LRIF rules in the last four years.

On a technical basis, he says, they couldn't plan ahead because maximum withdrawals from LIFs and LRIFs change according to market conditions. Also, many found the formulas for calculating maximums complicated. On a philosophical level, Wild says regulators "received complaints, such as 'I'm a responsible adult. Who is the government to tell me how much money I can withdraw from my own LIF or LRIF?'"

Ontario reacted six years later in 2008, unlocking an insulting 25% of locked-in pensions.

Ontario locked-in pension holders paid between $5.2 and $15.6 million in financial hardship application fees, to the Financial Services Commission of Ontario (FSCO) over a three year period (2003 to 2006) to reject only 53 out of over 26,000 applicants. Taxpayers paid for additional remaining costs.

Ontario continues to require these huge costs, to support a full-time department at FSCO , whose sole objective, is to determine which pensioners can have access to more of their own money.

Saskatchewan pensioners and taxpayers paid nothing, as their government allowed pensioners the flexibility to determine their own income streams.

Saskatchewan moved past the “age of government paternalism” in 2002, which continues to exist in Ontario in 2008.

Perhaps this is another reason why Ontario is moving towards a “Have Not Province”.

Best regards,

Bill Nafziger

Member:

Canadian Association of Retired People

Ontario Coalition of Independent LIF Holders

Common Front for Retirement Security

[madmax]

Ontario A Have Not Province

Keep the pressure on. The Liberals only respond to pressure.

[HisSelf]

Ontario A Have Not Province

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi folks,

Copying everyone on the May email sent to each of the 107 MPPs and various newspapers in Ontario.

Regards,

Bill Nafziger

Ontario is a “Have Not Province” for Seniors with Locked-in Pensions.

During 1999, MPPs in Ontario and Saskatchewan discussed the consequences of locked-in pensions for their retirees....

An insulting 25% is exactly right. This is a ridiculous situation. Surely there must be a Charter challenge in there somewhere.

[Bill C]

Letter to Dalton

Mr. McGuinty ;

I see that you are asking the Federal Government for Fairness for Ontario on TV and through the papers. You say that we in Ontario should be treated fairly .

Quote "Ontarians are not looking for special treatment. We're looking for the same treatment. We're looking for – we're demanding – fairness."

Although I do agree with you on this issue . I think back how the Seniors of Ontario have been asking you for the very same thing for the past three years .(((( FAIRNESS ))))

Seniors are not looking for special treatment . We,re looking for the same treatment as the 60 MPP,s of Ontario received in 1999 . Many of them from your party , and the same treatment the Seniors of Saskatchewan received in 2002 .

We are looking for- we are demanding - fairness .

We are asking you to treat the Seniors of Ontario with fairness , just as you wish to be treated .

Unlock - Locked in Pensions for the Seniors of Ontario and treat them fairly .

Bill Costello

The Ontario Coalition of Independent LIF Holders

[capricorn]

Hi Bill. Good hearing from you again. Your tenacity might just bring positive results.

[Bill C]

Liberals hypocritical on pension unlocking :

This is a letter sent out to all Liberal MPP's .

Mr Duncan ;

Thank you for responding to my letter . Even though your response was still the Same Old , Same Old .

I would like to quote you on some of your response .

Quote " As you mentioned, some MPPs voted to unlock their RRSP-type retirement arrangement in 1999 "

" This legislation was passed by the former government despite the objection of Liberal MPPs . The Liberal Caucus Opposed to compleat unlocking in 1999, and its views remains consistent . "

You are Correct in the above statements .

I would like to now Quote for You also what Your Premier said at that time .

" I want to make it perfectly clear in this House today that I and my party will have none of it."

Dalton McGuinty plus Jim Bradley , Michael Brown , Sean Conway , Elinor Caplan , Monte Kwinter , Lyn McLeod , Gerry Philips , David Ramsay , Tony Rupercht , Richard Patten , and the list goes on took all of it . 100% Unlocking !!!!!!

Don't you think Mr Duncan that Your party is being a bit Hypocritical ,letting members take all of it when they retire ,when your leader said " MY PARTY WILL HAVE NONE OF IT ".

You Can be sure of one thing Mr Duncan that I and The Ontario Coalition of Independent LIF Holders will continue to inform the Seniors of Ontario who all the members of the Liberal Party are that will have 100% unfettered access to their pensions on retirement .

Where as any other citizen of Ontario has to wait until they are 90 Years of age OR DROP DEAD so they may receive the same privilege.

To Me Sir HYPOCRITICAL is not a strong enough word for the disparity and hardship You and the Liberal Party are forcing on the SENIORS of this Province .

People that worked hard all their lives . People that saved all their lives for a comfortable retirement ,

And now You Sir and your party are denying them their own money in their golden years .

Bill Costello , The Ontario Coalition of Independent LIF Holders .

[madmax]

Liberals hypocritical on pension unlocking :

This is a letter sent out to all Liberal MPP's .

Mr Duncan ;

Thank you for responding to my letter . Even though your response was still the Same Old , Same Old .

I would like to quote you on some of your response .

Quote " As you mentioned, some MPPs voted to unlock their RRSP-type retirement arrangement in 1999 "

" This legislation was passed by the former government despite the objection of Liberal MPPs . The Liberal Caucus Opposed to compleat unlocking in 1999, and its views remains consistent . "

You are Correct in the above statements .

I would like to now Quote for You also what Your Premier said at that time .

" I want to make it perfectly clear in this House today that I and my party will have none of it."

Dalton McGuinty plus Jim Bradley , Michael Brown , Sean Conway , Elinor Caplan , Monte Kwinter , Lyn McLeod , Gerry Philips , David Ramsay , Tony Rupercht , Richard Patten , and the list goes on took all of it . 100% Unlocking !!!!!!

Don't you think Mr Duncan that Your party is being a bit Hypocritical ,letting members take all of it when they retire ,when your leader said " MY PARTY WILL HAVE NONE OF IT ".

You Can be sure of one thing Mr Duncan that I and The Ontario Coalition of Independent LIF Holders will continue to inform the Seniors of Ontario who all the members of the Liberal Party are that will have 100% unfettered access to their pensions on retirement .

Where as any other citizen of Ontario has to wait until they are 90 Years of age OR DROP DEAD so they may receive the same privilege.

To Me Sir HYPOCRITICAL is not a strong enough word for the disparity and hardship You and the Liberal Party are forcing on the SENIORS of this Province .

People that worked hard all their lives . People that saved all their lives for a comfortable retirement ,

And now You Sir and your party are denying them their own money in their golden years .

Bill Costello , The Ontario Coalition of Independent LIF Holders .

Whats a pension fund worth today? Maybe when you win this fight, they will be worth something again.

[capricorn]

Whats a pension fund worth today? Maybe when you win this fight, they will be worth something again.

Not all pension funds held in locked-in pension plans are tied to the stock market. For example, when I retired I had the option of leaving the funds in my employer's pension plan or transferring the funds into a locked-in rrsp of my choosing. I decided to transfer the funds into a gic rrsp simply because this enabled me to direct where the funds would be parked and I removed the risk associated with the markets. I think a lot of retirees who had that option did just that. The problem is that access is limited to around 6% per annum of the total cash value of the plan. In effect, retirees in locked-in plans will never access the bulk of their funds in their lifetime. Meanwhile, Ontario MPPs voted to unlock their own pension funds thereby granting themselves full access to the funds. It's good for them but they don't think Ontario's retirees should be treated as their equals.

[Bill C]

Hi MadMax ;

Capricorn couldn't have said it better.

A lot of pensioners have their funds in safe ventures . There are still many of us including me that have stayed in the markets .

I wish I was one of the smart ones, but that is another story .

As Capricorn said a person is only allowed to withdraw a percentage of their fund and the rest remains locked in.

At the end of this year the percentage will be calculated and that will mean that people that are still in the markets will have less income coming in. If it is at the bottom at that time , that is what the next years payout will be based on. The markets could pick up early next year ( Miracles have happened ) . That wont matter . The income will still be based on the end of year figures.

With pensions unlocked , people would be more able to regulate their income.

After all . That should be their decision . It is their own money.

Regards Bill C

[madmax]

Not all pension funds held in locked-in pension plans are tied to the stock market. For example, when I retired

.....when you retired ? EARNED FREEDOM!!! You never know the age of a poster. I am 7 years old, well according to my wife I am.

Seriously, thanks for the answer.

[madmax]

Hi MadMax ;

Capricorn couldn't have said it better.

A lot of pensioners have their funds in safe ventures . There are still many of us including me that have stayed in the markets .

I wish I was one of the smart ones, but that is another story .

As Capricorn said a person is only allowed to withdraw a percentage of their fund and the rest remains locked in.

At the end of this year the percentage will be calculated and that will mean that people that are still in the markets will have less income coming in. If it is at the bottom at that time , that is what the next years payout will be based on. The markets could pick up early next year ( Miracles have happened ) . That wont matter . The income will still be based on the end of year figures.

With pensions unlocked , people would be more able to regulate their income.

After all . That should be their decision . It is their own money.

Regards Bill C

I have to give you credit. You have been tenacious. I am not surprised at how flippant McGuinty is on this issue. What is good for the goose is not good for the gander.

[August1991]

Anyone who wants to understand modern politics, and the life of a politician, should flip through this thread.

BillC wants government (we, the taxpayers) to give him money.

BillC has many arguments, legitimate or not, to justify his request for government money. (BillC couches his arguments in terms of fairness: he is not asking for government money, he is asking to receive money that is already his. BillC doesn't want a "tax cut" - he wants "tax fairness".)

BillC is a fanatic, a lobbyist.

Such people as BillC get special deals and eventually they pay less tax than the rest of us. BillC is like GM and Chrysler, Bombardier or Petro-Canada. They are relentless.

When anyone thinks of the life of a politician, what governments do and how they operate: Think of BillC and this thread.

-----

My only other queries are what truly motivates fanatics such as BillC? (Life is so short to waste it mooching.) And what politician has the courage to throw such fanatics as BillC out of their office? (Margaret Thatcher and Boris Yeltsin.)

Edited December 21, 2008 by August1991

[Bill C]

August 1991 .

It would be nice if you knew what you were even talking about .

None of this is Government Money Nor is it a Tax Break . If you take the Money out You pay Tax on it .

If you take all of it out at one time . You pay the maximum tax .

This is not Government money not CPP Not OAS . This is a person own personal money that was put away for retirement.

Read the forum and just maybe you will understand .

Why don't you study the issue before you comment on something you obviously know nothing about .

Bill C

[Bill C]

Hi All ;

I have just been notified by Ken Elliott that there is another Private Members bill to unlock locked in pensions 100 % in Ontario .

We can use all the help we can get from concerned Ontario Citizens , or if you are in any other province and hold a Ontario locked in pension . mail your MPP's of all party's , and asking them to support bill 116 on your behalf .

It would also be helpful if you also mailed Dalton McGuinty Premier of Ontario .

Here is the addresses of the MPP's .

http://www.ontla.on.ca/web/members/members..._mpps&go=go

If you are stuck for words this is a letter Philip James set out to his MPP.

" Hello Peter.

We have received information that Mr Chudleigh of Halton has introduced a private members Bill to finally level the playing field Re: Locked in Pensions. His Bill states that all should get 100% unlocking as did the 61Mpp,s back in 1999, with some still sitting including Dalton McGuinty. My question Peter is straightforward.

Can we the pensioners of Ontario count on your yes vote for Bill 116. Your response will be appreciated.

Regards Philip James , The Ontario Coalition of Independent LIF Holders . "

As Many of You know these locked in Pensions are Pensions arriving from your own private pension plans and the Ontrio Government has no right to keep them locked in when there has already been a presedent set in 2002 in Saskatchewan when they unlocked 100% for their Citizens , in 1999 61 Ontario MPP's passed legislation to unlock their pensions for them selves 100% .

This is your own money not Government money . This is not CPP or QAS .

Please pass this on to as many people as you can . We need to fight the unjustness of the curent legislation .

Thank You Bill Costello , The Ontario Coalition of Independent LIF Hoalders

-------Original Message-------

From: kenneth elliott

Date: 1/12/2009 12:20:00 PM

To: philip james; Grant Fleury; Bill Costello

Subject: Bill 116

Hi all,

Just received this e-mail this morning ... let's keep the pressure on ... even Chudleigh in his first sentence is acknowledging that MPPs have been given an exemption on locked-in pensions

Ken

----- Original Message -----

From: Ellis, Ben

To: [email protected]

Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 11:05 AM

Subject: [sPAM]Locked-In Pensions

Dear Mr. Elliott,

I have been informed that you are interested in the issue of legislation surrounding locked-in pensions and the exemptions for certain people including the terminally ill and MPPs. As you may have heard, Mr. Chudleigh has tabled legislation recently that would “level the playing field”, so to speak. Bill 116 would amend the Pension Benefits Act to allow up to the entire amount in the account to be transferred into a registered retirement income fund for all Ontarians. The transfer could be made at age 55 or, if the pension plan provides for retirement at an earlier age, at that age.

In drafting this legislation, Mr. Chudleigh is attempting to undo and simplify the complicated laws which rob people of the right to spend their own hard-earned money. As a conservative, Mr. Chudleigh feels that retirees deserve more respect, and do not need pensions rationed out by government like parents giving allowance to their children. Beyond that principle, Bill 116 would act as a significant and timely stimulus to the economy.

Bill 116 will be given second reading some time in 2009, at a date yet to be determined (depending on Mr. Chudleigh’s ballot day). At that time, we hope there will be serious debate on this issue both in the House, in the media and in the public. Even if Bill 116 fails to pass, we hope that the Liberal government will take note of the issue and at least introduce legislation that changes the current system.

I understand the frustration that exists regarding this matter but there are several steps that can be taken to increase our chances. For instance, as a private citizen you might start a petition or letter-writing campaign, perhaps in concert with an organization like CARP. If you were able to stir up enough support, Mr. Chudleigh could read them into the record and demonstrate to the McGuinty Liberals that there is real public clamoring for change. I would be happy to help with this process.

Please feel free to contact me anytime to discuss this or other issues.

Best regards,

Ben Ellis

Executive Assistant to

Ted Chudleigh, M.P.P. Halton

P.C. Critic for Economic Development and Trade

[August1991]

None of this is Government Money Nor is it a Tax Break . If you take the Money out You pay Tax on it .

If you take all of it out at one time . You pay the maximum tax .

This is not Government money not CPP Not OAS . This is a person own personal money that was put away for retirement.

Precisely BillC. You can take the money out now but you have to pay tax on it. Those were the terms that you accepted when you put your retirement savings into a LIF.

What you want now, BillC, is for the government to lower the tax rate for you.

----

I'll set aside the details of this specific situation. Rather, I wanted to use this thread as an example of how modern democratic politics works. The squeaky, tenacious, relentless wheel gets the grease. BillC, you missed your true occupation in life. You should have become a lobbyist.

[Bill C]

Quote " BillC, you missed your true occupation in life. You should have become a lobbyist. "

August 1991;

No thanks . I am quit happy with what I was . A Welder - Fabricator .

The only reason I am doing this is that I have received so many e-mails from people that tell me how this curent legislaion has ruined their lives . Just ordinary citizens .

I am at the stage that changing this legislation will no help me much any more , but I can not quit because so many people need this changed .

Make fun if you must but this is a real problem for real people .

Regards Bill Costello

[madmax]

Quote " BillC, you missed your true occupation in life. You should have become a lobbyist. "

August 1991;

No thanks . I am quit happy with what I was . A Welder - Fabricator .

The only reason I am doing this is that I have received so many e-mails from people that tell me how this curent legislaion has ruined their lives . Just ordinary citizens .

I am at the stage that changing this legislation will no help me much any more , but I can not quit because so many people need this changed .

Make fun if you must but this is a real problem for real people .

Regards Bill Costello

Keep it up Bill. There are many youthful and stupid people who believe they have it all figured out. You are doing the right thing for the right reasons.

[capricorn]

Precisely BillC. You can take the money out now but you have to pay tax on it. Those were the terms that you accepted when you put your retirement savings into a LIF.j

Not so August. There was no agreement on the part of the plan holder because the legislation forced plan holders to purchase a LIF. No choice is/was offered. Most retirees never live long enough to deplete the funds in their plan.

What you want now, BillC, is for the government to lower the tax rate for you.

Actually, the government benefits through withholding taxes if the funds are withdrawn during the plan holder's life. Otherwise, the cash value of the plan automatically goes to beneficiaries who may or may not cash in the investment.

I'll set aside the details of this specific situation. Rather, I wanted to use this thread as an example of how modern democratic politics works. The squeaky, tenacious, relentless wheel gets the grease. BillC, you missed your true occupation in life. You should have become a lobbyist.

What's wrong with retirees wanting access to the pension funds they accumulated during their working life in order to maintain a dignified lifestyle? At this time, Ontario retirees are only allowed to withdraw 6% per annum of the total value of their pension holding. As I said above, they die before they enjoy the pension money they worked for. But as Bill points out, Ontario politicians voted to give themselves access to 100% of their funds. What makes them superior that they would not extend the same option and rules to retirees?

[Bill C]

Hi Everybody ;

I thought I would pass private members bill 116 's address in case you would like to look at it .

http://www.ontla.on.ca/web/bills/bills_det...amp;BillID=2074

Ted Chudleigh MPP Halton has assured me that he is fully committed to having these pensions unlocked as is his party .

He said if the current government should prorogue parliament he will present it again under a new number .

Please e- mail your MPP and ask him/her to support bill 116 . You could also e-mail Premier McGuinty and ask him to let this bill pass .

We have a petition in the works that I will mail out as soon as it is ready .

On another front a Liberal MPP is also having unlocking pensions 100% put on the agenda for discussion in the next caucus meeting February 4 . There are a number of Liberal MPP's that already support unlocking 100% , with your encouragement maybe we can get more .

I have received a letter from Gilles Bisson one of the NDP candidates that they now have decided to back unlocking 50% . I have asked him why the Turnaround from Andrea's private members bill of 100% . His reply was it was a party decision . I have not yet received a reply from any other of the candidates when I asked what percentage of unlocking they support.

I would ask of you all to mail the 4 NDP candidates and ask them why the change .

I thought they always say they are for the people . Do they now feel that we are not competent enough to look after our own money .

We are getting to the stage that I really belive that we are going to succeed in having this cruel legislation changed . We just need the support from all of you and anybody else you can reach out to , to also mail the MPP's of Ontario and ask for LIF , LIRF , LIRA pensions be unlocked 100% .

To anybody out of province that has a locked in pension in Ontario or feels that this unjust legislation should be changed . You can e-mail Premier Dalton McGuinty and ask for change .

[email protected]

Until I have further Information , Take Care Bill Costello , The Ontario Coalition of Independent LIF Holders

[capricorn]

Hi Bill, I read your link to the proposed legislation. As I read it, the bill is to allow transfer from a locked in fund to a RRIF. Wouldn't the RRIF not also be locked in? Nowhere did I see an unlocking provision which would provide access to the funds by the planholder. I may be wrong. Could you clarify?

Thanks and regards.

capricorn