The Right Is United

[westcoast99]

As we all know by now, the Canadian political Right has been united. It's now up to the membership of the Alliance and Tories to decide whether this will happen or not.

Everyone's thoughts?

Edited August 11, 2015 by Gugsy

[dnsfurlan]

(Nice to be back. What a time for the website to go down. Just our luck )

I guess I have two views of the creation of the new party:

1) The tremendous challenge that still awaits this party. It needs to be in election shape within a matter of about six months. In the meantime, it needs to clear the hurdle of a two-thirds majority ratification within the PC Party itself.

Apparently, the Orchardites are already at work trying to sabotoge this thing. Some suggest that as many people as possible should try to buy PC memberhip cards ($10) if they want merger approved.

2) If the above can be managed, then there has to be significant upside to merger. Until now, Canadians were not given a clear alternative to the Liberals. Now, I think they have been.

One voice, two combined constituencies. This should mean clarity for those who thought about voting for someone other than the Liberals but just saw a mess of choices. It should also mean that 1+1=2, or something to that effect. The West is in. So is Atlantic Canada. And now Ontario may finally be at play.

Don't believe the people who say this will not make a difference. These are the same people who said that both the Alliance and the Tories were in danger of extinction after the next election. They seem more annoyed at the prospect of Paul Martin being challenged than anything else.

This party is here to stay. It will form the official opposition in the next election. It will form the basis of the conservative movement for the future of Canada. It can end vote-splitiing.

Stated simply, it provides Canadian voters with one strong choice as opposed to two questionable ones.

And for those people who say that many voters will go Liberal or NDP because they won't like the new entity, think about some of the people who have voted Liberal for the last decade that might want to go back to voting for a real conservative alternative. Experts tend to look at one side of the coin and not the other.

The challenge now is that this new choice indeed be strong. And it will be a challenge.

But lets hope this new entitiy becomes a professionally run machine within the next six months that will finally give Canadians a sniff of democracy once again.

I still don't know how its going to be done. Lets just try to do everything we can to make sure it does. Peter Mackay and Stephen Harper have done theire part. Now lets do ours.

P.S. Any thoughts on a new leader? My bet is still on Harper, although I realize the challenge he has in presenting himself as a big-tent leader.

If you look at what he did to stabilize a party that many people were laughing of the political stage, perhaps such a smooth touch could be used for the volatile entity the new party is.

He speaks french - an almost invaluable asset. And I thought he sure looked good in today's press conference - almost like someone who believes he has a shot at becoming the leader of the Conservative Party of Canada?

[Cameron]

This is the most viable party in Canada now. With this unification we can now have a party that can take on the liberals. Some members from both sides have expressed disagreement with this new development, well it's the best alternative to the Liberals. As dnsfurlan said before Stated simply, it provides Canadian voters with one strong choice as opposed to two questionable ones.

Right on the mark with that statement....

[Cameron]

I've got to tell you though, it's a great feeling now that we can co-operate with eachother and focus all our criticisms on the Liberals.

Agreed!

[Littlefinger]

I've got to tell you though, it's a great feeling now that we can co-operate with eachother and focus all our criticisms on the Liberals.

You'll have to convince the members of both parties of that first. There are already grumblings of discontent on both sides. It'll certainly be interesting to watch from afar. I am far from convinced that all the swords are now pointed solely at the Liberals.

[dnsfurlan]

You'll have to convince the members of both parties of that first.  There are already grumblings of discontent on both sides.  It'll certainly be interesting to watch from afar.  I am far from convinced that all the swords are now pointed solely at the Liberals.

And you're more than happy to do your part to try to point those swords, aren't you?

The merger has only just been announced and the Liberals already seems to be scared of a united alternative. Jack Layton too.

[Littlefinger]

Sorry, you've got the wrong soldier. I'm more than happy to let you guys sort out your own mess.

Who's scared? The new party faces a monumental taks in getting the PC membership to ratify in the first place. Even if it does, it will have only a few months to choose a leader and pick its policies. God forbid that you should choose a leader that is clearly identified with only one of the former parties, because the internal bickering will be a sight to behold. The only contenders who are not clearly identified with either one are the Ontario PCs that were just swept out of office.

If this party ever does get off the ground, after bleeding away all the Red Tories, if it gains any strength, then the Liberals will only have to fight one flank, by playing the "only the Liberals can stop the conservatives card" to the left.

If you are an Ontario Liberal right now, life is good.

[dnsfurlan]

Littlefinger,

Why are you so eager to provide us all with a doomsayer's analysis of the new party?

If you're not scared, then why try so hard to convince us of the error in our ways?

And I thought you were watching this fram afar. You sound like you're getting pretty close to me.

[Littlefinger]

Dnsfurlan,

I just thought I'd rain on your parade a little bit. No need to listen to me though. There are plenty of pundits and politicians doing that already.

And I am watching from afar - I'm not joining either party, or the new one for that matter. That doesn't mean I can't make observations from afar.

[sir_springer]

I have some reservations about all this, but will hold them in my backpocket for now.

Thus, I will give this the shot it deserves.

Assuming this gets past the PC membership...which is by no means a certainty...

The only one qualified to lead the new party is Stephen Harper.

Harper addressed this eleoquently today on Politics when asked by Neuman if the new party needed a new face.

To paraphrase:

"Both Peter and I have never fought an election yet...and frankly, some of the new faces being suggested are actually old faces."

Bingo!

Harris is just about the worst possible choice. He has no federal political experience, and he brings a ton of baggage with him...a lot of it negative.

This is about the future, not the past.

And this party has to belong to the new breed of leadership for the 21st century, leadership that only Harper offers.

Plus...

Harper is the only even remotely qualified to go head to head with Paul Martin.

Ya don't take a knife to a gun fight, and ya don't go up against Martin and the Liberals with a rookie.

Remember 2000. The Liberals proved that they know no bounds, ethical or otherwise, when it comes to fighting an election.

What we do not need is a new leader.

What we need is a qualified, intelligent, and capable leader.

Harper is that man, of this there is no disputing the facts.

[dnsfurlan]

I just thought I'd rain on your parade a little bit

Exactly.

There are plenty of pundits and politicians doing that already.

You get your opinions from them?

That doesn't mean I can't make observations from afar

Hmmm. I don't think you're making observations at all. I think you are making comments directed against the new party.

Boy, you really must be scared. It didn't take you half a day to try to put in your two cents worth.

Martin doesn't seem to mind the new party. You sure do!

[dnsfurlan]

"Both Peter and I have never fought an election yet...and frankly, some of the new faces being suggested are actually old faces."

Bingo!

You know, Harper has surprised me with the wit and intelligence he has in making public statements.

The consensus frontrunner seems to be Mike Harris.

But I think I'm gonna put in a word for Stephen Harper at this early stage. I do think he is the most qualified of all the candidates mentioned thus far, except maybe for Bernard Lord - but even that's a stretch.

The one drawback for Harper is that he will be seen as the face of the Canadian Alliance for a party that is trying to sell itself as something more.

If he is going to win the leadership contest, he will need to start impressing people other than us CAers.

Some PCers have already suggested some openness to Harper. They prefer him much more than Mike Harris, apparently.

And, in many ways, I think Harper is the right kind of candidate for the upcoming election specifically.

But he will need to overcome the image of simply being another Canadian Alliance face from out West.

[westcoast99]

I am confident that this will pass the PC membership.

Edited August 11, 2015 by Gugsy

[Pellaken]

if Harper, Day, Manning. MacKay, Mulrooney, or Clark become leader of the new party, then the new party will fail.

Someone who has not led a federal party is needed.

[daniel]

I wonder if the Canadian public will recognize that this "new" Conservative party was born from a lie. Anyways, we've all been lied by the Tories many times before, so this would be just keeping up with tradition.

[Neal.F.]

OK Guys... where do i start?

Joe Clark is going to (thankfully!!!!) ride off to the red tory retirement home. While congratulating Mssrs harper and macKay for their courage in putting together the deal, the salty old captain has decided to go down with the ship, rather than building a new bigger and and better vessel. I guess he liked being a big fish in a small pond.

Another VERY influential tory who is in favour is John Crosbie, who, a short year ago decalred at the PC policy convention that he had come 3000 miles to help save the PC Party, not to bury it.

Elsie Wayne is aboard as well. And that's a good thing.

As for who will be leader... that is the $64 000 Question.

the ball game has entered a new phase, and some heavy hitters are going to start to surface from both the political realm, and from business. Mssrs. harper and MacKay may not even be factors, and for all we know, both may decline to run. These two have set themselves up for the Premierships of their respective provinces.

Mike Harris is reportedly going to decide this weekend whether he'll be in the race. Tom Long's name has surfaced, as has Tony Clement. Ralph Klein may want to cap off an enormously successful public life by becoming PM. I would not rule out Gordon Campbell either.

Bernard Lord will come under pressure, but I tend to believe that he can be counted on to remain at the helm in New Brunswick.

remember, this time, the boys will be playing for high stakes. The brass ring itself is within the grasp of the winning candidate, so serious money and organizations need to be at hand, since there is no time to cobble one together from nothing. This is going to be a highly publicized, and very interesting to the general public race, so it needs to be professional.

Therefore the candidates will need to be well connected with those who control the purse strings on Bay Street, on the Bow, and in other centres such as vancouver, Montreal and Winnipeg. Serious money, and serious backing will be needed. There are no serious candidates from Quebec. Jean Charest is out for one reason only. He can hardly walk out of the Premier's office a mere six months into his first term.

While I believe Brian Mulroney can loosen the purse strings of the Montreal business community, there are, to my knowledge, no serious well-known Tory activist players left in Quebec. Most businesspeople here who are politically active are Liberals, for obvious reasons. That may change again, but not in time.

[Littlefinger]

Hmmm. I don't think you're making observations at all. I think you are making comments directed against the new party. Boy, you really must be scared. It didn't take you half a day to try to put in your two cents worth.

Dnsfurlan,

I AM making observations! I'm observing that the new party has a long way to go before it is viable. It took you even less to praise it to the heavens.

Springer,

Having Harper as leader of the new party would guarantee a Liberal landslide. If it is perceived in any way that this is a CA takeover of the Tories, only Martin will benefit. The most visible way to create this perception is to have Harper as the leader of the new party.

[Cameron]

Assuming the Tory-Alliance merger goes ahead, what political party are you most likely to vote for in the next federal election?

Liberals 

  9052 votes   (39 %)

Conservatives 

  6080 votes   (26 %)

NDP 

  7220 votes   (31 %)

Bloc  

  108 votes   (0 %)

Other 

  646 votes   (3 % )

From: Globe & Mail October 17, 2003

NDP in second...sick. And people are still planning to vote Liberal...they still don't get it, they still believe the lies...man....

[westcoast99]

Internet polls are not at all reliable and very easy to skew.

Edited August 11, 2015 by Gugsy

[Neal.F.]

Did you see the Front page of the Globe today?

"Clark Condemns Merger"!!!

I posted exactly what he said in another thread. While he said he wants nothing to do with it, it was hardly a blistering condemnation.

Besides, that's just Joe Clark is just showing more of the same poor judgement that characterized his entire carreer. The mitten-man strikes again. His stupid move in

allowing the 1980 election to happen, to opening himself up to a leadership race against Mulroney that he didn't have to, to grand marshalling a gay pride

parade. Typical Joe.

What an ignominous end to a career.

That said, internet polls are never to be trusted. It doesn't take much effort to alert everyone on your mailing list, if you have an agenda....or to clear your cookies and vote often.

[dnsfurlan]

I don't know what you're all talking about. This WILL pass the PC membership.

Do you think us PC's will turn our backs to Don Mazankowski, Bill Davis, or Brian Mulroney? All have favoured this merger.

I am confident that this will quite easily pass the PC membership.

New PC memberships from now until the ratification vote may change things but, as the numbers stand now, Orchard controls about 25% of the members. That means 90% of the rest need to approve the merger. That is an awfully high number for a party that can't go to sleep at night over its insecurity of being "swamped".

But, as Star columnist Chantal Hebert pointed out, now that the merger deal has been signed, the PC Party of Canada is all but dead anyway, at least in its present form (actually, I think the Conservative Party now is a rebirth of the old Conservative Party). There is nowhere for them to turn now. If the PCs fail to ratify this deal, they will lose Mackay as a credible leader and have left a rump of Tories who, like Joe Clark, were blinded by their own stubborn ideology.

Think about that. If the PCs refuse this deal, the one thing they fear most would probably happen anyway: the Canadian Alliance would have won and the PC Party will be destroyed outright.

[Neal.F.]

As long as the bulk of Atlantic members go, regardless of what Orchardistas or Jurassic Joe do, the Conservative Party is a done deal.

Who cares about what Joe Clark has to say now. he's a has-been, who really, never was.

He lasted 7 months as PM BECAUSE of his own pig-headedness. The same character trait cost him the leadership, which he never should have had to contest (But thankfully , he did) Then when he took over the remnants of the PC party in 1998 he stupidly refused to contest by-election after by election, and the Tories starting losing members, and finally slipped to below 8% in the polls before he finally got his act together......and held onto party status by 352 votes.... Then, just after the Nov. 2000 election, and the momentum that had started to build, he goes and grand-marshalls a gay pride parade... Brilliant move for someone purporting to lead a conservative party.

He has said his piece, now he can ride off into the sunset and leave Calgary Centre for someone committed to building the future, not ressurrecting the past.

[Mr. Chater]

Well i think the vote in December is useless to merge the right. I think taht it is it and they should do it. But since they still have to vote on it .... who knows.

[dnsfurlan]

And I just can't help but look at Joe Clark as somewhat of a hypocrite.

He always said that he wanted to build a coalition of conservatives. Remember the PC/DRC thing?

Now people are trying to really build that coalition and he wants to pout like some kind of rejected schoolgirl.

If I didn't know better, I just think he's sour because this merger does seem to be Brian Mulroney's baby, at least in part.

Makes you wonder how this guy survived so long as one of Canada's "most respected politicians".

I think one of the things with Joe Clark is that he sounds serious when he makes public statements. Its one of the reasons he was seen as winning the debate in the last election.

However, this guy - time and time again - has a record of making one blundered decision after another. The DRC thing was another example. So is this thumbs-down on merger.

Its amazing how much political capital he has on such a record of bad judgement.

I guess superficiality can succeed in politics, can't it?

[dnsfurlan]

I watched CBC last night, the panel that was talking about this merger didn't even mention the NDP when talking about the next election, all the better.

If this merger does indeed happen, I think the general consensus is that Canadian federal poitics returns to its traditional configuration: two parites battling it out for government, with other parties hanging around on the sidelines.

Now, Layton and company are trying to sell this merger as one that alienates the new party even further to the right of Paul Martin.

But don't believe the hype.

A new Conservative Party already polls somewhere in the 30% range. The NDP would climax over such numbers.

Layton is trying to scare off "progressives" from this new entity.

Its a nice little strategy. But Layton has to do more than tell people why not to support other parties. So far, has he given regular Canadians a reason to vote for him? I think not.

Just think how easy Jean Chretien has had it with the absence of any party consistently providing an alternativea to government.

Like Bill Clinton, Chretien is one of those politicians who seems to survive partially on luck. Go figure.