Ontario Premier's 'Idea' to get kids to stay in school

[cybercoma]

Don't want kids dropping out of high school? Make it illegal for them to do so until they're 18. Taking away their ability to become licensed (which they may need for the job they're dropping out for to make money for their poverty striken family....who knows) is really unneccessary and just shows how Dalton McGuinty has done nothing but try to interere in the lives of all Ontarians.

[gc1765]

It makes sense that's part of the dangers of drinking. Car accidents happen to all age groups, thats like asking how many people are killed by a 34 year old driving and a 34 year old drinking.

This is off topic, it's not the government to take license away just for dropping out of school, that's insane.

It's not off-topic, we are talking about the dangers of driving, specifically the dangers of a 16 year old driving.

It's no more insane to prevent a 16 year old from driving than it is to prevent a 16 year old from drinking. Yet, previous governments didn't lower the drinking age to 16, so does that mean that every premier in recent history (don't know what the drinking laws were like way back when) was "playing father" by preventing 16 year olds from drinking, as mentioned in the opening post: "Premier Dalton McGuinty wants to play everyones father..."

[mikedavid00]

Some people can't do the school thing, why should they be chained to school, contrary to popular belief it's not for everyone. It might take him a few more years to get it, why should he rot when he can contribute to the economy and make a life for himself. Haven't you heard of the labor shortage in Alberta, they won't be caring too much if he's 17 if there are people who go through special education that drive truck too.

I gree. I knew load of dropouts. A couple worked at the air-port, another a hair dresser, another laying carpets, another a bouncer. Another at Canadian tire.

Too much education is a bad thing IMO becuase it devalues the fact that you actually got it. ie: if every single person had a degree, then it becomes devalued.

Besides, I don't think i've ever seen once a job asking for a highschool diploma. We just wanted it to go to univeristy.

Also the facts are, it's legal to drop out at 16. It's legal to have a license under 18.

The only thing possibly illegal or unconsititutional is for McGuinty to do dictate this unto us.

[blueblood]

It makes sense that's part of the dangers of drinking. Car accidents happen to all age groups, thats like asking how many people are killed by a 34 year old driving and a 34 year old drinking.

This is off topic, it's not the government to take license away just for dropping out of school, that's insane.

It's not off-topic, we are talking about the dangers of driving, specifically the dangers of a 16 year old driving.

It's no more insane to prevent a 16 year old from driving than it is to prevent a 16 year old from drinking. Yet, previous governments didn't lower the drinking age to 16, so does that mean that every premier in recent history (don't know what the drinking laws were like way back when) was "playing father" by preventing 16 year olds from drinking, as mentioned in the opening post: "Premier Dalton McGuinty wants to play everyones father..."

If dropping out of school had a direct correlation to making your skills as a driver diminish then for the good of not harming anyone take their license away, but this is not the case. McGuinty is saying since your going to dropout of school you can't drive, that's crap. They have restrictions on 16 year olds with booze and driving due to public and personal safety. Dropping out of school does nothing.

[Saturn]

Don't want kids dropping out of high school? Make it illegal for them to do so until they're 18. Taking away their ability to become licensed (which they may need for the job they're dropping out for to make money for their poverty striken family....who knows) is really unneccessary and just shows how Dalton McGuinty has done nothing but try to interere in the lives of all Ontarians.

Making it illegal doesn't do anything. Are you going to put them in jail? Obviously not.

Now why are kids dropping out like never before? Because Mike Harris decided to cut education down to the bone, put 40 kids in class (some sitting on the floor as a result), let them share textbooks because there weren't enough, turned down the temperature in classrooms to 16C, closed school libraries and stripped funding to a point where schools couldn't afford PAPER. The message - education is worthless. The result - 30% dropout rate. Now you come up with some good ideas on how to get those kids back in school. You must have some great ideas that will be more effective than taking away their driving privileges.

[Saturn]

If dropping out of school had a direct correlation to making your skills as a driver diminish then for the good of not harming anyone take their license away, but this is not the case. McGuinty is saying since your going to dropout of school you can't drive, that's crap. They have restrictions on 16 year olds with booze and driving due to public and personal safety. Dropping out of school does nothing.

In fact there is a direct correlation between driving and education. This is why insurance companies give discounts to students who have above 80% average. These students are less likely to get into an accident (for whatever reason - presumably they are more responsible and less likely to do stupid things with their vehicles) and present a lower risk to the insurance companies. A 17-year-old with good marks will be paying less for insurance than a 17-year-old dropout.

[gc1765]

If dropping out of school had a direct correlation to making your skills as a driver diminish then for the good of not harming anyone take their license away, but this is not the case.

I agree. That's the argument I was waiting to hear, but so far, I haven't seen anyone mention that in this thread.

However, what about the argument that many dropouts are 'irresponsible'....and I don't want to generalize here, certainly a lot of dropouts go on to do great things, but most of the dropouts I knew back in high school were very irresponsible and very bad drivers. It's certainly not true that all dropouts are bad drivers, or that all high school graduates are good drivers, but is there not at least some correlation between the two?

[Saturn]

If dropping out of school had a direct correlation to making your skills as a driver diminish then for the good of not harming anyone take their license away, but this is not the case.

I agree. That's the argument I was waiting to hear, but so far, I haven't seen anyone mention that in this thread.

However, what about the argument that many dropouts are 'irresponsible'....and I don't want to generalize here, certainly a lot of dropouts go on to do great things, but most of the dropouts I knew back in high school were very irresponsible and very bad drivers. It's certainly not true that all dropouts are bad drivers, or that all high school graduates are good drivers, but is there not at least some correlation between the two?

As I pointed out there is a correlation and it is a very strong correlation too. It is strong enough for insurance companies to charge different rates.

This is not what the intent of this policy is though. Dropouts are more likely to end up at the bottom of the pay-scale, on the welfare rolls, in jail, and on the worse side of everything else. The intent here is to put more dropouts back in school or discourage them from dropping out in the first place.

[mikedavid00]

Now why are kids dropping out like never before? Because Mike Harris decided to cut education down to the bone, put 40 kids in class

And he also closed lots of hopitals too... and he cut welfare payments.

And why did he do all this?

[gc1765]

As I pointed out there is a correlation and it is a very strong correlation too. It is strong enough for insurance companies to charge different rates.

This is not what the intent of this policy is though. Dropouts are more likely to end up at the bottom of the pay-scale, on the welfare rolls, in jail, and on the worse side of everything else. The intent here is to put more dropouts back in school or discourage them from dropping out in the first place.

I agree. I was just adding another way of looking at the argument.

[Saturn]

Now why are kids dropping out like never before? Because Mike Harris decided to cut education down to the bone, put 40 kids in class

And he also closed lots of hopitals too... and he cut welfare payments.

And why did he do all this?

So that he could buy some votes and we'd end up paying for it through the nose when he's retired and sitting on the boards of 20 or so companies.

[blueblood]

If dropping out of school had a direct correlation to making your skills as a driver diminish then for the good of not harming anyone take their license away, but this is not the case. McGuinty is saying since your going to dropout of school you can't drive, that's crap. They have restrictions on 16 year olds with booze and driving due to public and personal safety. Dropping out of school does nothing.

In fact there is a direct correlation between driving and education. This is why insurance companies give discounts to students who have above 80% average. These students are less likely to get into an accident (for whatever reason - presumably they are more responsible and less likely to do stupid things with their vehicles) and present a lower risk to the insurance companies. A 17-year-old with good marks will be paying less for insurance than a 17-year-old dropout.

Link plz. I call BS. There are lots of skids that do have their grade 12 as well, so by taking an opportunity to better themselves with a license, you'd take that one opportunity away from them. And you wonder why I hate the Liberal party, god forbid if you don't fall into their vision. Here's a thought at the high dropout rates, the kids parents aren't there to give their kids the swift kick in the ass needed to go through school. Go after them. Why should the government take over the job as parents? There are some that have no choice but to drop out, don't punish them.

[mikedavid00]

Now why are kids dropping out like never before? Because Mike Harris decided to cut education down to the bone, put 40 kids in class

And he also closed lots of hopitals too... and he cut welfare payments.

And why did he do all this?

So that he could buy some votes and we'd end up paying for it through the nose when he's retired and sitting on the boards of 20 or so companies.

No. He did all these massive cuts because a federal Liberal leader by the name of Jean Chretien made the largest transfer payment cuts in the history of the world. 40% cut to the provinces.

Jean Chretien was the most Conservative gov't I think we've ever had.

Mulrouny is someone i HATE. Make no mistake, I hate Chretien too... and also Martin. But Mulrouny I just hate him a lot lot.

He was a true corrupt dictator of the country.. oh goodness I hate him.

They say Mulrouny foresaw that Canada was going to be a services based country (which he as right) as manufacturing was moving off shores so he took the hidden GST tax already there and brought it out to the public. Thus, the Liberals were put in a good position to get the extra money. Not only that, but they made MASSIVE cuts to the provinces. Manning said that he wanted to pass legislation that would make it illegal so no PM could ever do this again.

The media spin was that if you bought a washer or dryer that was made in Canada, it would now be cheaper. Back then the media really didn't present both sides the way they do now. Back then they just re-spun what the parties told them to say. Of course, no one asked the quesiont 'since when did Canada make washers and dryers?'. Most stuff was always made off shores for the longest time.

Then there was free trade. Yeah good move!. Now we have businesses like Starbucks that do NOT benefit Canada at all and take away all the marketshare from Canadian owned business that could have run against Second cup. (i'm trying to be simplistic, you get the idea).

Wal-Mart is better than Zellers I know. But how long can Zellers compete with Walmart? What does Wal-Mart provide for Canada?.... umm.. a bunch of minimum wage jobs?

What does Zellers provide Canada? Shipping, marketing, packaging, courier, tv/radio adveritising, printing, publishing, investements, accouting, hr, customer service, and so, so many more jobs for Canadians. White collar jobs. Outsourcing to Canadians firms Etc.

Walmart has the same jobs too, but all those office jobs are in the US. When we shop at Wal-Mart or Starbucks, we are just sending money back to the US. Now, Canadian businesses have gone under, cannot compete with these American businesses, and now every mall has the exact same American franchise shops in them as we work our customer service jobs and play second fiddle to the US.

THANKS MULROUNY. THANKS A LOT FOR RUINING THE COUNTRY YOU DAMN IDIOT.