Liberals and Tories vote $22000 Raises for themselve

[madmax]

Belly up to the trough, beware of blue and red pigs falling over one another.

Good For Kormos, at least he speaks his mind.

No wonder these guys voted down Kormos earlier Motion to put a freeze on property tax.

They knew they had to have money to pay for their big fat pay increases and would have nothing extra to offer the municipalities.

They talk about their wages as if they are in a race with their federal counterparts.

I feel so sorry for these poor exploited politicians.

$22,000 raise?

Your thoughts next:-).

[Topaz]

Both, the Tories and the Libs, have abused the citizens of this province. When Harris was in, instead of raises, they took them in RRSP's and now the Libs have done their thing. I wouldn't mind if the unemployment was down and everyone in this province is doing well, that's not the case. Are they going to give the govt employees a 28% increase in their pay???

[Remiel]

If they work productivity increases by 28%, then I am all for it. I think that in general we underpay our provincial and federal members, compared to what we give them responsibility for, but they should have to improve the quality of their service for their raise, just like anyone else.

[Canadian Blue]

Why do Ontario politician's need so much more money as compared to all of the other provinces politician's. I highly doubt that they deserve it.

[Remiel]

How much politicians make in other provinces is irrelevant, because it is based on the assumption that politicians in other provinces make the correct amount.

The relevant (baseline) questions I think are: How much does the ideal member of parliament deserve to make? How much does the craptastic member of parliament deserve to make?

It would be more relevant to compare the pay of politicians to people with similar responsibility, yet even that is imperfect because it assumes that those people make what they should be making.

[Canadian Blue]

Maybe the people of a riding should vote on whether or not they deserve a raise. Imagine how politician's would feel about that.

[madmax]

Maybe the people of a riding should vote on whether or not they deserve a raise. Imagine how politician's would feel about that.

I believe NDP house leader Kormos was stating just that when he got tossed:-).

I wonder what union, these conservatives and liberals joined to get these kind of pay increases.

The average Joe is lucky to get a raise, and if they do get one it is in the range of 1.5% per year.

Poor Poor Liberals and Conservatives, barely making ends meet while the serve the public on our tab.

Fiberal McGuinty, and John Tory same old story. Pork pork pork.

Man are these guys Sleazeballs.

[Remiel]

Does anyone know the actual average raise for MPs per year?

[madmax]

Does anyone know the actual average raise for MPs per year?

Well, for this year it will be $22000, that isn't removed the following year or the year after. So the average raise is 25%, until the choose to fatten themselves up more.

The average joe is doesn't receive a 25% pay raise.

I was in Woodstock yesterday, in a small restaurant and I could overhear a table of 5 railing against these greedy bastards.

[Remiel]

I did say average. If an MP makes $139,000 a year, and after five years they get a $22,000 raise, they are getting something more like a 3.2% raise/year, aren't they?

[madmax]

I did say average. If an MP makes $139,000 a year, and after five years they get a $22,000 raise, they are getting something more like a 3.2% raise/year, aren't they?

They are making roughly $80,000 and will get a $22000 raise.

$102,000

If they wanted to make it 3.2 % nobody would be talking.

$80,000 + 3.2% = $82,560

This isn't about % increase for the MPPS it is about keeping up with their federal counterparts.

It isn't about an increase in their work, their services etc., it is an argument simply based on whining about how little they make compared to the pork their federal cousins get.

It's not a strong argument, unless you are a Liberal or Conservative in the legislature.

[Remiel]

Only $80,000 a year to be a member of provincial parliament? If you ask me, that *is* too little to represent and be responsible for, what, 50,000+ people?

[madmax]

Only $80,000 a year to be a member of provincial parliament? If you ask me, that *is* too little to represent and be responsible for, what, 50,000+ people?

$102,000 to show up with a pulse? Being an MPP is not a difficult job. Just the Liberals and Tories choosing to sneak in a christmas present for themselves that will be forgotten about by Sept.

[Remiel]

Compare it to any other white collar job though where one is charged similar duties and I'll bet you'll find the non-politician makes a crap load more money, and has a crap load more job security.

It is kind of a chicken vs. egg problem though. Do you make all MPPs perform up to standards before you pay them what the job deserves, or do you pay them what the job deserves then get them to perform up to standards. Do you get a pay raise for each successive election you win? I doubt there is any other way to differentiate between the job MPP A and MMP B do, even if A is the real deal and B is an incompetent.

[madmax]

Compare it to any other white collar job though where one is charged similar duties and I'll bet you'll find the non-politician makes a crap load more money, and has a crap load more job security.

It is kind of a chicken vs. egg problem though. Do you make all MPPs perform up to standards before you pay them what the job deserves, or do you pay them what the job deserves then get them to perform up to standards. Do you get a pay raise for each successive election you win? I doubt there is any other way to differentiate between the job MPP A and MMP B do, even if A is the real deal and B is an incompetent.

I think you make alot of valid points here. I don't have the answers, I have opinions. I don't think they have justified a $22,000 raise. And I am sure you have seen my opinion on the large salaries of CEOs and their job security.

That said, the people whom could answer your question and attempt to resolve those points, are the very politicians we elect into office. Essentially, The Liberals and the Conservatives have decided they are worth it, and Peter Kormos, and my guess the entire NDP would have suggested not to endorse a $22,000 raise.

Parliment has spoken. I am dissappointed in my own MP for this decision.