CP: Harper achieved nothing: Chinese ambassador

[gerryhatrick]

Harper achieved nothing: Chinese ambassador

CP

OTTAWA — China’s top diplomat in Canada says nothing is achieved in improving relations between the two countries by “standing on rooftops and pointing fingers.”

Ambassador Lu Shemin delivered that message at a business luncheon Tuesday and was applauded.

http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Canada/200...21/2433039.html

I think he did more than achieve nothing, I think he set himself up for payback. He practiced a megaphone diplomacy, which is almost always bad.

I understand the other school of thought...that he's speaking up and it's more than the Liberals did and all that. Ultimately you have to stop bringing up the Liberals and judge what Harper has done on it's own merits. Will it actually gain ground in the area of human rights, or will it just isolate the Chinese from us..giving us even less influence then we may now have? I fear the latter is true.

[gerryhatrick]

Also from the Canadian Press on the same subject (a more extensive article):

Don't point fingers, Chinese ambassador tells PM

Updated Tue. Nov. 21 2006 6:20 PM ET

Canadian Press

OTTAWA -- Beijing's top diplomat in Canada suggested Prime Minister Stephen Harper is taking a condescending tone with China on human rights, "pointing fingers'' when he should be keeping the direct lines of communication open.

"Acknowledging (the) diversity of the world we share, and learning from each other with tolerance and respect, will prove far more productive for common progress and prosperity than standing aloof and pointing fingers at each other,'' Ambassador Lu Shumin told a business luncheon.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...hub=CTVNewsAt11

[August1991]

China’s top diplomat in Canada says nothing is achieved in improving relations between the two countries by “standing on rooftops and pointing fingers.”

Ambassador Lu Shemin delivered that message at a business luncheon Tuesday and was applauded.

Applauded?

I suppose the Ambassador would say that this guy accomplished nothing either.

Jimmy Carter supposedly defended human rights but in fact just made a fool of himself and accomplished nothing. Ronald Reagan defended human rights and in fact got somewhere. I'm waiting to see whether Harper is Jimmy Carter or Ronald Reagan.

----

Jerry, why do you support "speaking truth to power" in Washington but not in Beijing?

Will it actually gain ground in the area of human rights, or will it just isolate the Chinese from us..giving us even less influence then we may now have? I fear the latter is true.

That's a fascinating argument, Jerry. Since Washington is a democracy, we can be direct. But since Beijing is a dictatorship, we have to be more careful and consider whether our actions will lose influence.

Jerry speaks to the Battered Wife: "Be careful. You have to manage the situation." Jerry speaks to the Misunderstood Wife: "Your husband's weak. Screw the bastard."

[geoffrey]

Personally I couldn't care what a member of a tyrannical regime says about someone that opposes their inward violence and oppression.

[gerryhatrick]

Personally I couldn't care what a member of a tyrannical regime says about someone that opposes their inward violence and oppression.

Well that's one possible position.

I am very interested in continuing to communicate and engage the entire regime. Diplomatic respect will enable that, and subsequently human rights and other important issues can be raised.

But maybe the Bush approach is the best one.....don't talk to them (except angrily, through the media) and hope that they start toeing the line because you're angry!

[Argus]

Harper achieved nothing: Chinese ambassador

CP

OTTAWA — China’s top diplomat in Canada says nothing is achieved in improving relations between the two countries by “standing on rooftops and pointing fingers.”

Ambassador Lu Shemin delivered that message at a business luncheon Tuesday and was applauded.

http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Canada/200...21/2433039.html

I think he did more than achieve nothing, I think he set himself up for payback. He practiced a megaphone diplomacy, which is almost always bad.

Hmm, in a cite provided by one of your friends, the NDP's Wayne Marston, on the NDP web site was saying "“How much longer is this federal government going to wait before it signals strongly and publicly that China must not violate Mr. Celil’s rights?"

I get the feel Liberal concerns about human rights were expressed for the home audience alone, and were rarely, if ever raised with the Chinese. Actually, I get the feeling that's the way it is for most western countries.

[Argus]

Personally I couldn't care what a member of a tyrannical regime says about someone that opposes their inward violence and oppression.

Well that's one possible position.

I am very interested in continuing to communicate and engage the entire regime. Diplomatic respect will enable that, and subsequently human rights and other important issues can be raised.

But maybe the Bush approach is the best one.....don't talk to them (except angrily, through the media) and hope that they start toeing the line because you're angry!

It's been my impression The Bush approach (like the Clinton approach before him, and the Bush approach before Clinton) has been to suck up to China at every opportunity. Perhaps you can provide some cites of Bush's numerous public criticism of China and it's human rights violations.

[gerryhatrick]

Personally I couldn't care what a member of a tyrannical regime says about someone that opposes their inward violence and oppression.

Well that's one possible position.

I am very interested in continuing to communicate and engage the entire regime. Diplomatic respect will enable that, and subsequently human rights and other important issues can be raised.

But maybe the Bush approach is the best one.....don't talk to them (except angrily, through the media) and hope that they start toeing the line because you're angry!

It's been my impression The Bush approach (like the Clinton approach before him, and the Bush approach before Clinton) has been to suck up to China at every opportunity. Perhaps you can provide some cites of Bush's numerous public criticism of China and it's human rights violations.

I was not referring to the Chinese specifically in citing the "Bush approach". The Bush approach is what I've seen with North Korea, Iran, Syria, ect....which is to just practice the megaphone diplomacy and not talk to the nation directly.

Sorry for that confusion.

[watching&waiting]

Why was this not included in the threads already about this very same subject? Once again it just goes to show that this appraoch is nothing more then trying to gain points and is a kin to throwing something against a wall and see what sticks. If this is what the Liberals are endorsing then they are even more pathetic then most people think them be be so far.

I am not surprised by the person doing this as everyone here has seen the same over and over again. But why are we even giving this guy an audience and replying to this crap? The vast majority of voters will not be swayed by this type of thing and since this has been played this way here I believe it has only hardened those who were not sure to go more and more with the CPC. You can see that by the numebr of recent nicks that have recently came here with the exact same tactics.

The liberal are a bunch of corrupt losers who want nothing more then to be able to liken the CPC to be the same as them. They are not trying to say they have changed, because we all can see they have not changed, and probably never will. The tactics used here prove that again and again. Since we as the memebrs here can not stop these from coming here spewing their bile, and misinformation, then we should ignore all the posts from them and maybe then they will go away.

[kimmy]

He said China is committed to democracy and human rights, but its own set of national and cultural circumstances should be respected along the way to that goal.

"Human rights are the common values of mankind. It doesn't belong to any particular country, or particular society,'' Lu said.

"The Chinese government attaches great importance to human rights, and we have taken various measures to improve and protect the human rights of the Chinese people.''

No, they don't. That continues to be extremely obvious.

They don't want "respect for their national and cultural circumstances," they want to ignore us in a more private venue.

We are probably just an annoying gnat to them whether we're vocal or whether we speak to them in private. I think that in the cosmic scheme of things, it probably won't make a difference either way. They will do things their way regardless of whether we try to criticize them or whether we try to "build our influence." But my conscience is happier with a vocal approach, even if they don't listen.

-k

[Shakeyhands]

Why was this not included in the threads already about this very same subject? Once again it just goes to show that this appraoch is nothing more then trying to gain points and is a kin to throwing something against a wall and see what sticks. If this is what the Liberals are endorsing then they are even more pathetic then most people think them be be so far.

I am not surprised by the person doing this as everyone here has seen the same over and over again. But why are we even giving this guy an audience and replying to this crap? The vast majority of voters will not be swayed by this type of thing and since this has been played this way here I believe it has only hardened those who were not sure to go more and more with the CPC. You can see that by the numebr of recent nicks that have recently came here with the exact same tactics.

The liberal are a bunch of corrupt losers who want nothing more then to be able to liken the CPC to be the same as them. They are not trying to say they have changed, because we all can see they have not changed, and probably never will. The tactics used here prove that again and again. Since we as the memebrs here can not stop these from coming here spewing their bile, and misinformation, then we should ignore all the posts from them and maybe then they will go away.

Can you believe the gall? Attacking our poor, poor Dear leader once again! I think we need to call the Wah'mbulance for someone here

Megaphone diplomacy does no one any good, it will come back and bite Harper in the rear. I think you'd be surprised to hear how alot of the recent hoopla is being received. I look forward to the spring.

[leonardcohen]

Megaphone diplomacy does no one any good, it will come back and bite Harper in the rear. I think you'd be surprised to hear how alot of the recent hoopla is being received. I look forward to the spring.

I don't know if anbody here watches ''The Rick Mercer Report'',but his weekly rant this week was about this subject, and i liked what he had to say about it,basically we're a free nation and we can say what we want and if China doesn't like it, too bad,if they want to bully their way on the world stage by using their economic might as a blunt threat they lose credibility in my eyes. We will trade with you,but we don't have to like you.

[gerryhatrick]

Can you believe the gall? Attacking our poor, poor Dear leader once again! I think we need to call the Wah'mbulance for someone here

Shakey, you make him sound like Bush!

[normanchateau]

You can see that by the numebr of recent nicks that have recently came here with the exact same tactics.

What???

[jdobbin]

Ronald Reagan defended human rights and in fact got somewhere.

Human right violations in Central America. This was during Reagan's time.

His government was responsible for a lot of the unrest and civilian deaths.

[normanchateau]

Ronald Reagan defended human rights and in fact got somewhere.

Human right violations in Central America. This was during Reagan's time.

And despite Reagan's efforts to overthrow the government of Nicaragua, the people of Nicaragua have once again elected his nemesis, Daniel Ortega. Meanwhile, what's Ollie North up to? Link:

http://alternet.org/story/44293/