Human rights and hypocrisy

[jbg]

So do you stand at the polling stations in Canada during every election and decide who is a 'little shithole voter'?

Democracy is based on the vote, Argus. To hell with what you might think.

And who do the leaders of these kinds of countries represent? Are the people of these countries helped?

Back before 1973 Israel was helping many African countries with agriculture. When the oil price rose the Arabs bribed these countries' leaders to kick the Israeli agricultural experts out, and take money (for Swiss bank accounts) instead. Which do you think benefitted the people more, Israeli agricultural assistance or tinpot dictators' assistants strutting the world stage in NYC?

[Argus]

Instead of blaming the UN, maybe people should start blaming the Britain, China, France, Russia and the United States. They're the ones holding the leash on the " paper tiger " .

I blame them for letting in all these little shithole countries and giving them votes.

So do you stand at the polling stations in Canada during every election and decide who is a 'little shithole voter'?

Democracy is based on the vote, Argus. To hell with what you might think.

Democracy is not the holy grail. And when you are outnumbered by iliterate goat herders who worship grasshoppers you don't want your life being put to a vote.

[myata]

Welcome onboard, Argus. Now you can tell all those people here who believe that it"s enough to bust in and say the magical word as the things will change in an instant and forever good, how deeply mistaken they are.

[Argus]

Welcome onboard, Argus. Now you can tell all those people here who believe that it"s enough to bust in and say the magical word as the things will change in an instant and forever good, how deeply mistaken they are.

I've always had huge doubts about the possibility of democracy in the middle east. Democracy requires a degree of community cohesion and cooperation, not to mention compromise which is largely absent in that region and among those cultures. Those people have been told what to do for ten thousand years. You can't suddenly foist democracy on them and expect them to start thinking independantly. The Americans are more idealistic than I am, however, and somehow believed they needed to put democracy in place. Now there was a chance it could have worked in Iraq, if there hadn't been an insurgency, and if Al Quaeda hadn't managed to provoke a religious war between the Shiites and Sunis, but it has virtually zero chance of success in Afghanistan.

As for the world, when two thirds of your "electors" are barely literate thieves and killers, you don't want anything important to you solved by one-man, one-vote democracy.

[myata]

Now where we differ is that you think that your belonging to this elite club makes you morally superior to them (on a one-dimensional scale) while I believe that we/they are just different (think of two dots on a sheet of paper). The best way to establish trust between people who don't know each other is openness and honesty (and peaceful attitude that goes without saying). Not much of the above have been present in our relationships with these people over the late, so no wonder the result is less than desirable. I wonder how long it can take to understand this simple truth.

[mcqueen625]

Last month the United Nations Human Rights Committee condemned Israel for shelling Palestine and abusing their rights. It failed to mention any reason or provocaton for such shelling, in what has become typical of the UN's double-standard hypocrisy on human rights.

Hmmm...

What came first, the Palestinian rockets, or the Israeli helicopters?

Seems to me that every time there has been a cease-fire, we have seen a lull in Palestinian violence, and a business-as-usual continuation of Israeli murder and mayhem. In fact this goes back to the start of the 2nd Intifada.

Could it be that the Israelis are counting on the American propaganda machine to get them out of trouble?

I breathlessly await the latest news from Anderson Cooper in his Atlanta condo

Just what news are you reading or listening to, or do you just choose to ignore the fact that every time there is some kind of so-called truce between the Palestinians and Israel it is either Hamas or Hezbollah who continues to fired missiles into civilian areas of Israel, or make incursions across the border into Israel. Just what is it you are really saying anyway? What it sounds like you are saying is that Israel should just sit back and allow their people to be killed without lifting a hand to defend themselves? Boy that sure sounds a lot like what the Nazi's would have liked to have happen, with Jews quietly going to the gas houses without putting up a fuss? Iran just showed the world how anti-Israeli, anti-Jewish they are by holding a conference of Holocaust deniers including the likes of David Duke, former head of the KKK, and of course our own Prof. Dossa from St. Francis Xavier University in Antigonish, NS. This prof. is so dim that he cannot understand why the university does not stand behind his decision to attend such a repugnant conference.

Yes, the UN has completely shown itself to be nothing but a biased organization who picks and chooses which countries are allowed to violate human rights regulations and which countries are allowed to do as they please without any condemnation. They are an organization that has outlived it's usefulness, and are now just a huge irrelevant bureaucracy.

[Argus]

Now where we differ is that you think that your belonging to this elite club makes you morally superior to them (on a one-dimensional scale) while I believe that we/they are just different (think of two dots on a sheet of paper). The best way to establish trust between people who don't know each other is openness and honesty (and peaceful attitude that goes without saying). Not much of the above have been present in our relationships with these people over the late, so no wonder the result is less than desirable. I wonder how long it can take to understand this simple truth.

I think my moral scale, which does not extend to chopping babies heads off and impaling their parents because they belong to a different tribe, burning witches because they made my cow die, exploding myself in the middle of a crowded market because God will reward me with 72 virgins, hanging teenagers for having sex - even if they were raped, burying women and stoning them for adultery, lying, cheating and stealing as a matter of course - does indeed give me a sense of moral superiority to what passes for most third world cultural value sets. You can wear a hair shirt and take up the blame for the primitivism of third-world cultures, but I don't regard it as my fault that many of these people's moral assumptions are no different than their ancestors an eon or so ago.

[Figleaf]

Quebec is less than a third of Canada but they've controlled the place for thirty years. In the case of the 57 member Muslim bloc it's even easier. Since most third world nations couldn't give a shit about what's going on in the middle east, all the Arabs have to do is bribe them with a little oil money. That's why every year scores of countries like Zambia and Vietnam vote together with the Muslim bloc on the same few dozen anti-Israel resolutions.

Of course in ARRGus's view it's out of the question that ignorant brown foreigners with funny names could possibly have independently formed an opinion that Zionism has inflicted a grievious harm on the Palestinians and that Israel (as a supposed creation of the UN) should actually abide by UN rules.

No, no, Argus will tell you, such subhumans as Zambia always and only act out of purely venal urges.

:puke:

[Figleaf]

As for the world, when two thirds of your "electors" are barely literate thieves and killers, you don't want anything important to you solved by one-man, one-vote democracy.

Reported. If posters can't call Stephen Lewis a 'jerk', I don't think Argus should be calling whole populations 'thieves'.

[myata]

Whatever. You can pump yourself up and out in your moral superiority, but it has no meaning because you're talking to yourself.

[Figleaf]

What came first, the Palestinian rockets, or the Israeli helicopters?

For you to even ask the question shows your comments have no credibility. As usual you twist everything around to your hatred of Israel defending itself or existing. Its tiresome.

I'll tell you what's tiresome... Israel's apologists who try to stifle any criticism by resorting to personal slights and blatant spin-doctoring.

The original post discussed China and Human Rights and the UN Record. Why is it being used by you once again to Israel bash?

Did you read the thread? The main complaint made here about the UNHRC is that it has the temerity to criticize Israel.

The NDP has zero credibility. It was quick to shit on Canadian troops in Afghanistan

They did? What did they say? When?

...I am disgusted with the UN and think it is morally bankrupt ...

Don't blame the UN, blame the members.

[jbg]

Of course in ARRGus's view it's out of the question that ignorant brown foreigners with funny names could possibly have independently formed an opinion that Zionism has inflicted a grievious harm on the Palestinians and that Israel (as a supposed creation of the UN) should actually abide by UN rules.

No, no, Argus will tell you, such subhumans as Zambia always and only act out of purely venal urges.

:puke:

If you read the media the Arabs are exposed to, you would understand. Or maybe you wouldn't, given your blind self-hatred of the West.

[sunsettommy]

With third world governments? Hardly.

That's definitely a valid point of view. However it is equivalent to saying that power structure of the UN must (continue to) be dominated by West. It's unlikely that any nation would willingly accept open and obvious domination. Hence, UNSC is destined for more and more stalemates. The only way to escape this destiny is to share the power with the world as it is, not as some want it to be.

Gosh you forget that it was the "west" who created the U.N. in the first place.

Then too they supply the headquarters and most of the money to run the agency.

Third world countries have little to offer.

So why share the "paper power" with tinpot dictators and similar idiots who runs their nation into the ground through ideology and/or ethnic cleansing?

[sunsettommy]

Last month the United Nations Human Rights Committee condemned Israel for shelling Palestine and abusing their rights. It failed to mention any reason or provocaton for such shelling, in what has become typical of the UN's double-standard hypocrisy on human rights.

Hmmm...

What came first, the Palestinian rockets, or the Israeli helicopters?

Seems to me that every time there has been a cease-fire, we have seen a lull in Palestinian violence, and a business-as-usual continuation of Israeli murder and mayhem. In fact this goes back to the start of the 2nd Intifada.

Could it be that the Israelis are counting on the American propaganda machine to get them out of trouble?

I breathlessly await the latest news from Anderson Cooper in his Atlanta condo

Hmmmm......

When will you actually address Argus's point that the Resolutions are ONE SIDED!

Then too you are willing to forget those kidnappings.........

[sunsettommy]

You've just touched on the realproblem with multilateral organizations and treaties. They "bind" the civilized world. Countries such as Uzbekistan, China, Russia, Cuba, or Saudi Arabia couldn't care less about condemnation in some piece of paper emanating out of New York, whether resolution or news article. Civilized countries take such pieces of paper somewhat seriously.

That is why the UN, despite initially noble intentions, is a very bad idea.

So when is the United States pulling out of organizations like the U.N.? And why not? You'd had a right wing government for six years. Were they really lefties?

No because they do NOT have the courage to do the right thing.

Then too the headquarters is in New York.

Diplomacy is not something easily trampled on even for a failed institution that the U.N. is.

Meanwhile when will Canada pull out of the U.N. ?

[sunsettommy]

Had the UN done what it was supposed to, it would have disarmed Hezbollah and enabled Lebanon to have free elections. If it had done what it was supposed to do, it would have sent in troops to prevent Arab terrorists, created a second nation in the West Bank and Gaza and disarmed Arab Terrorists,making the IDF

a moot point. The UN remained silent when China invaded Tibet. It did nothing when thousands were killed in Cambodia/Kampuchea. It has looked the other way when human rights violations are committed by third world leaders, especially Africans. Where is the UN with Robert Mugabe today?

The UN only has as much power as its most powerful members allow it to have. Blaming the UN is easy, but it ignores the fact that its failures are our own.

The Veto power?

[jbg]

Gosh you forget that it was the "west" who created the U.N. in the first place.

Then too they supply the headquarters and most of the money to run the agency.

Third world countries have little to offer.

So why share the "paper power" with tinpot dictators and similar idiots who runs their nation into the ground through ideology and/or ethnic cleansing?

No reason to at all.

[Argus]

Quebec is less than a third of Canada but they've controlled the place for thirty years. In the case of the 57 member Muslim bloc it's even easier. Since most third world nations couldn't give a shit about what's going on in the middle east, all the Arabs have to do is bribe them with a little oil money. That's why every year scores of countries like Zambia and Vietnam vote together with the Muslim bloc on the same few dozen anti-Israel resolutions.

Of course in ARRGus's view it's out of the question that ignorant brown foreigners with funny names could possibly have independently formed an opinion that Zionism has inflicted a grievious harm on the Palestinians and that Israel (as a supposed creation of the UN) should actually abide by UN rules.

Ah yes, the indignation of so many world leaders at the gross violation of human rights in Palestine cannot be discounted. They are, after all, men of such vast self restraint, honesty and integrity. Yes, I see it now. The Chinese, who have set records for executions of Muslims in their western provinces surely care deeply about the well-being of the Palestinian. The Russians busily bombing the crap out of Chechnia are sorely heartsick at the misery of the Palestinian people. The Iranians with their morals executions, the Syrians with their internal slaughters, the Africans and their massive corruption, human rights violations and tribal violence, they all care so much about the mistreatment of Palestinians.

No, no, Argus will tell you, such subhumans as Zambia always and only act out of purely venal urges.

:puke:

Ah yes, President Levy Mwanawasa and his phoney elections and Swiss bank accounts. I'm sure he does a lot of studying on international issues with such vast importance to Zambia as uh, Zionism and Palestine. I'm sure he acts only out of his care and concern for the lack of freedom in Palestine - even though his country has none either. Hey, at least the Palestinians were allowed to hold a free election. That's more than you can say for Zambians.

[Argus]

As for the world, when two thirds of your "electors" are barely literate thieves and killers, you don't want anything important to you solved by one-man, one-vote democracy.

Reported. If posters can't call Stephen Lewis a 'jerk', I don't think Argus should be calling whole populations 'thieves'.

Your continued outrage that I express opinions you find distasteful merely marks how out of tune you really are with basic human freedoms. This is something which tends to be common to ideologues of the far left. They are so frantic and fanatic about their ideological beliefs they cannot tolerate dissent. This is why every far left government resorts to violence, imprisoning opposition leaders, and ultimately, the murder of those who disagree with them.

There is freedom of speech in Canada, and on this site. All your snivelling and whining and temper tantrums won't change that. Perhaps you'd be happier in some other country, perhaps Cuba, where people who say things you don't like can be properly punished.

[Argus]

The original post discussed China and Human Rights and the UN Record. Why is it being used by you once again to Israel bash?

Did you read the thread? The main complaint made here about the UNHRC is that it has the temerity to criticize Israel.

The uh, "temerity"? yes, of course. That's it. The fact they find Darfur a charming place of peace and love and brotherhood, so much so they find nothing to criticise there, does nothing to cast any doubts on their integrity and respect for human rights. They won't criticise Iran, nor Syria, nor China, nor Sudan, nor well, actually, anyone. At all. No one. Ever. Only Israel.

But that's got nothing to do with Israel being full of dirty Jews, does it?

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear Argus,

They won't criticise Iran, nor Syria, nor China, nor Sudan, nor well, actually, anyone. At all. No one. Ever. Only Israel.

If you read the huge list of UN documents, you will see that this is not exactly true.

[Figleaf]

Of course in ARRGus's view it's out of the question that ignorant brown foreigners with funny names could possibly have independently formed an opinion that Zionism has inflicted a grievious harm on the Palestinians and that Israel (as a supposed creation of the UN) should actually abide by UN rules.

No, no, Argus will tell you, such subhumans as Zambia always and only act out of purely venal urges.

:puke:

If you read the media the Arabs are exposed to, you would understand. Or maybe you wouldn't, given your blind self-hatred of the West.

Is there some club rule for Rightwhiners that requires y'all to make ludicrous and false imputations about all your interlocutors?

[Figleaf]

As for the world, when two thirds of your "electors" are barely literate thieves and killers, you don't want anything important to you solved by one-man, one-vote democracy.

Reported. If posters can't call Stephen Lewis a 'jerk', I don't think Argus should be calling whole populations 'thieves'.

Your continued outrage that I express opinions you find distasteful merely marks how out of tune you really are with basic human freedoms.

Buddy, there are rules on this forum about abusing others, even people who don't post here. Calling whole gropus of people 'thieves' is not just bigoted, it must fall outside of forum rules.

If you don't like MY opinion about YOUR opinion, GFY.

This is something which tends to be common to ideologues of the far left.

Don't forget classical liberals like me.

[Argus]

Dear Argus,

They won't criticise Iran, nor Syria, nor China, nor Sudan, nor well, actually, anyone. At all. No one. Ever. Only Israel.

If you read the huge list of UN documents, you will see that this is not exactly true.

The UNHC has already stated it finds that cricitising individual governments directly is "counterproductive". That is one of the reasons they voted against citing the likes of Sudan or Russia (chechnya) Zimbabwe, or Uzbeskistan. The new UNHC was supposed to be a body on which only nations which respected human rights could sit. Instead, like other UN agencies, its membership is strictly geographic and political, and the African and Muslim blocks - virtually all governments in both blocks made up of totalitarian human rights abusers - have basically hamstrung it.

[Argus]

As for the world, when two thirds of your "electors" are barely literate thieves and killers, you don't want anything important to you solved by one-man, one-vote democracy.

Reported. If posters can't call Stephen Lewis a 'jerk', I don't think Argus should be calling whole populations 'thieves'.

Your continued outrage that I express opinions you find distasteful merely marks how out of tune you really are with basic human freedoms.

Buddy, there are rules on this forum about abusing others, even people who don't post here. Calling whole gropus of people 'thieves' is not just bigoted, it must fall outside of forum rules.

There are no rules for stating generalized opinions. Perhaps, before you try and whine about rules, you might actually take the time to have someone smart read them and explain them to you.

That, of course, won't help since your apparent lack of comprehension skills makes you incapable of understanding what it is I'm speaking about to begin with. Or did it completely escape your notice that as we're talking about the United Nations I was referring not to the general population of third world countries but to their governments? Not, I should add, that I have a great deal of respect for the sophistication or education of the former anyway.

If you don't like MY opinion about YOUR opinion, GFY.

I prefer to simply mock and ridicule your ludicrous policy beliefs and inept, adolescent personal attacks on others.

This is something which tends to be common to ideologues of the far left.

Don't forget classical liberals like me.

You are FAR left, probably further left than the NDP, and your absolute hate for even mild conservatives makes your denial material for snickering.

Like most of what you post.