Opposition blasts Harper’s performance on the world stage

[gerryhatrick]

Opposition blasts Harper’s performance on the world stage

Jack Aubry, CanWest News Service

Published: Monday, November 20, 2006

OTTAWA — Liberal Leader Bill Graham on Monday told the House of Commons that the Conservative government’s foreign policy "is dangerously driven by preconceptions, deceptions, self-delusions and arrogance".

He said Prime Minister Stephen Harper’ brief meeting with China’s president had hardly been "a historic event" since it was mentioned only at the end of a Chinese news agency’s report about President Hu Jintao ’s get together with another leader at the meeting of Asia-Pacific Economic Co-operation in Vietnam.

Graham said the end result of his efforts at the APEC meeting had been "a big fat zero"

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national...a7c&k=80664

I heard a guy on Rex Murphey on Sunday who was far more qualified than Rex's expert guest who said Harper was merely playing to the domestic audience. I have to agree with that.

I think megaphone-diplomacy is a mistake. It's always better to do these things behind closed doors.

Yes, the evil Liberals were not able to get results with China, but only a fool would be fooled into thinking this more media-megaphone approach will do any different. In fact, I would not be surprised to see it turn out worse.

I will be very surprised if that Candian/Chinese citizen is released.

[Canuck E Stan]

I heard a guy on Rex Murphey on Sunday who was far more qualified than Rex's expert guest who said ......

I too heard a guy, who heard it from a guy who heard it from a guy that said your threads are assisine.

Who was this guy that was far more qualified than Rex's guest(who was this guest?)

Your credibility as a poster of information that is relevant to anything, suck's the big one.

Did I tell you I heard that from a guy who heard it from a guy, who heard it from a guy?.....

[gerryhatrick]

I heard a guy on Rex Murphey on Sunday who was far more qualified than Rex's expert guest who said ......

I too heard a guy, who heard it from a guy who heard it from a guy that said your threads are assisine.

Don't be an idiot. He was the very first caller on the Rex Murphey radio show on Sunday, November 19th. If the best you can do is attack me over something like that then give it up.

He was Chinese and had spent a lot of time in China on diplomacy work and the like. What he had to say was his opinion, and I happen to agree with it. Harper's moves are for the domestic audience (and that's playing out) and won't buy anything with the Chinese.

If you want to work on human rights you need to ENGAGE and GAIN INFLUENCE.

That's "the guys" words.

[Canuck E Stan]

I heard a guy on Rex Murphey on Sunday who was far more qualified than Rex's expert guest who said ......

I too heard a guy, who heard it from a guy who heard it from a guy that said your threads are assisine.

Don't be an idiot. He was the very first caller on the Rex Murphey radio show on Sunday, November 19th. If the best you can do is attack me over something like that then give it up.

He was Chinese and had spent a lot of time in China on diplomacy work and the like. What he had to say was his opinion, and I happen to agree with it. Harper's moves are for the domestic audience (and that's playing out) and won't buy anything with the Chinese.

If you want to work on human rights you need to ENGAGE and GAIN INFLUENCE.

That's "the guys" words.

Nice description, but who, who, who, was he? And who,who, who,was the guest?..........and why was he more qualified than the guest?...........back up your statements.......idiot.

[normanchateau]

Why do people feel the need to call each other idiots on this discussion board? It weakens the points they're attempting to make.

[Warwick Green]

In next Spring's election (Harper vs Rae) people (read the Asian community) will forget Harper's ham-fisted diplomacy and remember that he stood up for the rights of Huseyin Celil now in the custody of the PRC. On the hand, if Harper had been more diplomatic would it have helped release Mr Celil? Who knows?

[gerryhatrick]

In next Spring's election (Harper vs Rae) people (read the Asian community) will forget Harper's ham-fisted diplomacy and remember that he stood up for the rights of Huseyin Celil now in the custody of the PRC. On the hand, if Harper had been more diplomatic would it have helped release Mr Celil? Who knows?

I don't know about the Asian community. They're not stupid and probably realize Harper's talk was ill-conceived.

The rest of the Country might give him some credit for it.

And I strongly suspect it means a long jail sentence for Mr. Celil. The Chinese will be the last laugh in the matter.

[Warwick Green]

And I strongly suspect it means a long jail sentence for Mr. Celil. The Chinese will be the last laugh in the matter.

He'll be lucky if all he gets is a prison term. He's accused of murder and terrorism. MacKay claims that Canada has an "understanding" with PRC not to execute him but even MacKay didn't sound convincing.

Next week the Goon Show starts in Montreal so no doubt we will all hear about how to improve Sino-Canadian relations.

[watching&waiting]

To tell you the truth, I find that the way Harper stood up for the Human Rights issues for China were good for the majority of Canadians. The opposition will of course always take the negative side. Where Chretien did absolutely nothing for Arar when pretty much the same thing happened to him and even tried to have it swept under the rug, this new approach by Harper to these things is better and supported by the majority of Canadians.

The Liberal were pathetic when it came to China and pretty much begged for everything we got from them. That is not what I want my Canada to be like. We have standards now and we shpould actively make other countries aware just what and how far we will go in making sure our standards are kept. China now knows that we are going to be a tougher nation when it comes to Human Rights, especially when it is about one of our citizens. Once they carry a Canadian passport they are protected by our rules and laws. For this person to be extradited to China was wrong, and we need to make that very clear to all nations in the world.

The opposition are nothing more then whiners whose only quest is to make political points at the expense of a Canadian citizen. But that is what we have come to expect from the Liberals.

[Argus]

Opposition blasts Harper’s performance on the world stage

Jack Aubry, CanWest News Service

Published: Monday, November 20, 2006

OTTAWA — Liberal Leader Bill Graham on Monday told the House of Commons that the Conservative government’s foreign policy "is dangerously driven by preconceptions, deceptions, self-delusions and arrogance".

I wonder why you're not condemning the Liberals as the party of Bay Street, the party that only cares about money? I'm reasonably certain you'd be condemning Harper for that if he'd gone there and barely mentioned human rights.

I think megaphone-diplomacy is a mistake. It's always better to do these things behind closed doors.

Yes, the evil Liberals were not able to get results with China, but only a fool would be fooled into thinking this more media-megaphone approach will do any different. In fact, I would not be surprised to see it turn out worse.

I've seen no evidence the Liberals EVER raised human rights abuses with China at any time. From my perspective, they went there, got down on their knees, fellated every Chinese guy they could see, then wiped the white stuff off their lips when they got outside and said "We, of course, discussed Canada's serious concerns about human rights".

I would rather have a PM who shows a little pride, than a PM, like Chretien, who went over there with a brass band and begging bowl desperately trying to get the Chinese to throw a few coins our way.

[Warwick Green]

I've seen no evidence the Liberals EVER raised human rights abuses with China at any time. From my perspective, they went there, got down on their knees, fellated every Chinese guy they could see, then wiped the white stuff off their lips when they got outside and said "We, of course, discussed Canada's serious concerns about human rights".

And the Liberal efforts with Iran were no more successful. And, by the way, back then they were just as vocal about yelling "human rights abuses" as Harper is now.

[Canadian Blue]

I don't know about the Asian community. They're not stupid and probably realize Harper's talk was ill-conceived.

The rest of the Country might give him some credit for it.

And I strongly suspect it means a long jail sentence for Mr. Celil. The Chinese will be the last laugh in the matter.

Mr. Cecil's wife must be stupid as she was on Global today supporting what Harper was doing.

I've seen no evidence the Liberals EVER raised human rights abuses with China at any time. From my perspective, they went there, got down on their knees, fellated every Chinese guy they could see, then wiped the white stuff off their lips when they got outside and said "We, of course, discussed Canada's serious concerns about human rights".

Thats "All Asian Gang Bang" your talking about Argus. Very "descriptive"........

In all honesty the Liberals idea of bringing up human rights behind closed doors isn't something to be proud of. Whats wrong with our leaders telling Canadian's were they stand on human rights.

I've seen no evidence the Liberals EVER raised human rights abuses with China at any time. From my perspective, they went there, got down on their knees, fellated every Chinese guy they could see, then wiped the white stuff off their lips when they got outside and said "We, of course, discussed Canada's serious concerns about human rights".

Apparently it was all behind closed doors.

[Dump Bees]

Anyone see Rick Mercer's rant on his show tonight? He summed up pretty much how I feel on this subject.

Thank god its not Chretien out on the international stage anymore. That man was a train wreck. I cringed everytime he opened his mouth as you never knew what he was going to say.

He was like the drunk uncle at the wedding that you half expected to fall into the punch bowl at any time.

[gerryhatrick]

Opposition blasts Harper’s performance on the world stage

Jack Aubry, CanWest News Service

Published: Monday, November 20, 2006

OTTAWA — Liberal Leader Bill Graham on Monday told the House of Commons that the Conservative government’s foreign policy "is dangerously driven by preconceptions, deceptions, self-delusions and arrogance".

I wonder why you're not condemning the Liberals as the party of Bay Street, the party that only cares about money? I'm reasonably certain you'd be condemning Harper for that if he'd gone there and barely mentioned human rights.

That's the CPC trick, blame the Liberals for everything. Why would you expect me to be doing it also? The subject of the day does not include the Liberals. The Liberals are not in power. It wasn't the Liberal leader in Vietnam last week. I understand that it's all Liberals all the time for the CPC, they were told to do that by Frank Luntz, but don't expect me to sing that song along with ya.

I've seen no evidence the Liberals EVER raised human rights abuses with China at any time. From my perspective, they went there, got down on their knees, fellated every Chinese guy they could see, then wiped the white stuff off their lips

That is disgusting language. Get a grip on yourself.

[Argus]

I've seen no evidence the Liberals EVER raised human rights abuses with China at any time. From my perspective, they went there, got down on their knees, fellated every Chinese guy they could see, then wiped the white stuff off their lips when they got outside and said "We, of course, discussed Canada's serious concerns about human rights".

And the Liberal efforts with Iran were no more successful. And, by the way, back then they were just as vocal about yelling "human rights abuses" as Harper is now.

What efforts with Iran? Did you expect them to bring the woman back to life?

Vocal protests about what was done in Iran served to make the Iranians squirm, to embarrass them on the international stage, and to cause trouble for those responsible. That's about all you can expect in that situation.

[watching&waiting]

I am glad by what I finally see being said in the editorials about all of this. Finally the people are seeing that Harper took the right stand with China and they are even writing to the editors to have their say. For me it was easy to see that Harper was far better at dealing with the Chinese then the Liberals ever were. As for business goes they are not seeing any problems because pf the stronger stance.

It should not take any real genius to see that Canada is China's best bet when it comes to a stable supply of raw material for their factories. We are also the easier nation when it comes to also buying their finished products. So yes they need us, as much as we need them. That relationship will not be undone by talking tough about human rights, for a canadian citizen being held illegally in thier jails. Harper is doing what people would expect the PM to do. He is finally getting credit for it from the people as well. As far as the opposition goes, well they are too busy trying to kill each other in the leadership race, to be of any consequence, and the NDP...... well Layton speaks for them. Need I say more?

[gerryhatrick]

As for business goes they are not seeing any problems because pf the stronger stance.

Why would you think this has played out in any way, shape, or form yet?

This "stronger stance" only occurred days ago.

Some think it's showing strength and standing up to the Chinese. Many others see it as pure politics.

I think there's no question it was simple politics. He's seeing the election around the corner and so he thinks talking big with the communists over human rights will gain him some sorely needed respect among Canadians.

[watching&waiting]

If Harper was to push the Chinese over the illegal extrdition of one of our Citizens to China from Uzbekistan, and gain his freedom, which would be not that hard to do, then I would say that Harper would not only get just about all the Oriental voters vots but a lot of the rest of the voters.

You just do not understand that China will sell things to anyone, even if Canada was threatening war, they would still sell to us. They will buy our raw materials because we have the most easily accessed raw materials and we are probably the most politically stable country, for that supply. So yes they are very much interested in buying as much as they can. They will not let any political arguements change that. So we have nothing to lose and everything to gain with being frank and honest with the chinese on Human rights, and the treatment of one of our citizens in thei custody, by illegal means.

You just do nto like it because Harper is doing for this person what Chretien should have done for Arar, and he will get all the cudos for doing so. At least Harper is standing like a man and not a quivering fool.

[Canuck E Stan]

As for business goes they are not seeing any problems because pf the stronger stance.

Why would you think this has played out in any way, shape, or form yet?

This "stronger stance" only occurred days ago.

Some think it's showing strength and standing up to the Chinese. Many others see it as pure politics.

I think there's no question it was simple politics. He's seeing the election around the corner and so he thinks talking big with the communists over human rights will gain him some sorely needed respect among Canadians.

And if he didn't talk about human rights, the Liberals would go after him for not doing so.

I'm shocked the Liberals haven't applauded Harper for talking human rights, it seems like a very Liberal thing to do.

With the Liberals not giving kudos to Harper for going after Human rights I'm begining to think Liberals don't think the issue is very important to them anymore.

Who's playing politics here? Liberals once again.

Fortunately Canadians know better and see through the Liberal facade of being a caring political party of the people.

All in their minds,all thought, no action, as the past has constantly shown.

[hiti]

Harper did not talk about Human Rights with China's Hu. He asked about the Chinese citizen who spent 3 years in Canada and that was all. The rest is political hooey that was playing to the domestic audience.

I can't believe how many swallowed Harper's political crapola. LOLOL

[scribblet]

According to various news sources, the PM did talke about various human rights issues - Cretien promised many times to do so, but never delivered.

Strange how its okayfor other parties to discuss HR issues but not the CPC -

[jbg]

I think megaphone-diplomacy is a mistake. It's always better to do these things behind closed doors.

Quiet diplomacy works well with countries that are similar to yours. It got nowhere with the Iran hostage crisis, the leadup to WW I and WW II, the Korean War, etc. Quiet diplomacy works well when the leader of one English-speaking country picks up the phone and calls the leader of another English-speaking country and talks, in English, without a translator.

That's about it.

[cybercoma]

He's seeing the election around the corner and so he thinks talking big with the communists over human rights will gain him some sorely needed respect among Canadians.

So, you have no respect for someone who raises human rights issues with countries that are violating them?

I know you like to just ramble commentary without actually putting your own opinions forward, so you can go back and close that door on any posterwho calls you on the issue. Please, tell us what you're position is, because saying, "he thinks" is language that implies he is wrong. You're either implying tha the average Canadian has no respect for a Prime Minister that defends Human Rights, by takling big with its violators, or you're speaking from pesonal conviction. Either you're just plain wrong, as is the case with the former; or you're completely ignorant, as would be the case with the latter.

And if it is the latter, I would like to know why you don't feel Human Rights issues should be addressed with any sort of 'serious' tone, or 'talking big' as you have called it. Surely, a Canadian citizen detained abroad in a communist country known for violating human rights is not concerned with our government walking on eggshells because of our national business interest. I think it's fairly safe to say that the Canadian citizen cares only that he is returned safely to his country before the aforementoned human rights abuses begin taking place.

[gerryhatrick]

He's seeing the election around the corner and so he thinks talking big with the communists over human rights will gain him some sorely needed respect among Canadians.

So, you have no respect for someone who raises human rights issues with countries that are violating them?

During Chretien's tenure he met with the Chinese Prez EIGHT TIMES and raised human rights each and every time.

It's not necessary to use megaphone diplomacy to whip another nation into doing what you want, and it never works. So no, I have no respect for what he did. It was dumb. And I think it was probably only ever intended to appeal to a portion of Canadian voters who are not well-informed about international politics.

[cybercoma]

During Chretien's tenure he met with the Chinese Prez EIGHT TIMES and raised human rights each and every time.

It's not necessary to use megaphone diplomacy to whip another nation into doing what you want, and it never works.

Are you suggesting what Chretien did worked?