Another poll shows Cons slipping, Liberals gaining. Now even.

[gerryhatrick]

From environics:

......... Nov. .. Oct. .. Jun.

Con .. 33% 37% 39%

Lib.... 32% 28% 25%

http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/index.cfm/...em/itemID/13741

My belief is that this is related to the obfuscation by the Conservatives on the issue of Global Warming.

Regardless of what the Liberals did or didn't do in the past (which seems to be the Conservative answer to everything) the public is just recently sensing the real truth and urgency of Global Warming. It's finally broken through the lies that companies like Exxon has spent millions on. So NOW the question is what will our leadership do and Canadians look at what's happening and they see our leadership being condemned for turning it's back on international agreements. Canadians want to keep our Kyoto targets, that is a fact.

[normanchateau]

My belief is that this is related to the obfuscation by the Conservatives on the issue of Global Warming.

Extreme religious groups like Focus on the Family view global warming as an unproven theory. They view the evidence for it as "junk science". Here's the link:

http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/8/162005d.asp

Appointing the former Canadian Leader of Focus on the Family to the position of Chief of Staff, Environment Ministry, doesn't give huge confidence that the Harper government even believes in global warming.

[betsy]

Question Period Jane Taber said today that although the polls indicate that Conservatives are down, polls also indicate that not one among the Liberal leadership candidates are appealing to the public, thus, says Taber...seems that Harper really has nothing to worry about if elections were held today.

[Ricki Bobbi]

Question Period Jane Taber said today that although the polls indicate that Conservatives are down, polls also indicate that not one among the Liberal leadership candidates are appealing to the public, thus, says Taber...seems that Harper really has nothing to worry about if elections were held today.

Good point betsy!

According to this SES Research poll people who voted in the last election are *LESS LIKELY* to vote Liberal with Iggy, Rae, Dion or Kennedy as leader.

I do appreciate how the OP ignored the Angus Reid poll from November 8th...

[gerryhatrick]

Question Period Jane Taber said today that although the polls indicate that Conservatives are down, polls also indicate that not one among the Liberal leadership candidates are appealing to the public, thus, says Taber...seems that Harper really has nothing to worry about if elections were held today.

Well that's interesting spin. I've seen the poll. It's not surprising that Canadians aren't feeling connected to the Liberal hopefuls prior to the leadership race.

Bob Rae will triumph over Stephen Harper in stunning fashion, that's my prediction.

[Ricki Bobbi]

Well that's interesting spin. I've seen the poll. It's not surprising that Canadians aren't feeling connected to the Liberal hopefuls prior to the leadership race.

Bob Rae will triumph over Stephen Harper in stunning fashion, that's my prediction.

You are only posting the polls that support your beliefs. Of course you are going to interpet those favourably...

This Angus Reid poll from November 8th shows the Liberals up eight points.

Sorry all your attacks, Harper loathing, demeaning of those with other viewpoints and obfuscation aside the Conservatives are going to win convincingly in 2007.

[gerryhatrick]

Well that's interesting spin. I've seen the poll. It's not surprising that Canadians aren't feeling connected to the Liberal hopefuls prior to the leadership race.

Bob Rae will triumph over Stephen Harper in stunning fashion, that's my prediction.

You are only posting the polls that support your beliefs. Of course you are going to interpet those favourably...

Another reference to your Nov. 8th poll? It appears to have been a blip, since several other polling agencies are showing the same trend as shown in this one.

And I'm free to post whatever I want and interpret it how I like. The fact that Canadians haven't gotten to know any of the Liberal leaders in any real detail is a valid analysis which sheds some light on the poll betsy is referencing. Once a leader is chosen, and some time has passed, such a poll might then be relavent.

As for this poll, OBVIOUSLY it's favorable to anyone opposed to this Conservative government. There's not really much interpretation in that. Three polls showing a distintice trend of Cons down, Libs up.

[Ricki Bobbi]

Another reference to your Nov. 8th poll? It appears to have been a blip, since several other polling agencies are showing the same trend as shown in this one.

And I'm free to post whatever I want and interpret it how I like.

Hmm, two polling firms. One of whom released that November 8th poll. How do you define several?

We all know you are free to post whatever you want, in whatever manner you want here on MLW Gerry. Never mind truth, decency, respect for other posters or the rules of this board.

[gerryhatrick]

Sorry all your attacks, Harper loathing, demeaning of those with other viewpoints and obfuscation aside

You have been warned repeatedly about trolling. Why do you continue?

And you might want to edit your post (again).

[gerryhatrick]

Another reference to your Nov. 8th poll? It appears to have been a blip, since several other polling agencies are showing the same trend as shown in this one.

And I'm free to post whatever I want and interpret it how I like.

Hmm, two polling firms. One of whom released that November 8th poll. How do you define several?

I am not speaking only of these two, obviously. I'm not even speaking of yours. I clearly referred to several polls that support the same trend that is demonstrated by this environics poll.

We all know you are free to post whatever you want, in whatever manner you want here on MLW Gerry. Never mind truth, decency, respect for other posters or the rules of this board.

Again you are accusing the board of bias, and again attacking me. Why can you not stop this behaviour Ricki?

[Ricki Bobbi]

You have been warned repeatedly about trolling. Why do you continue?

And you might want to edit your post (again).

Trolling is very much open to interpretation.

Yet again proving my point about special treatment here on the board. Other posters have been publicly admonished by Greg for accusations of trolling. Yet you are free to do so.

Why pull a quote from another thread Gerry?

[gerryhatrick]

You have been warned repeatedly about trolling. Why do you continue?

And you might want to edit your post (again).

Trolling is very much open to interpretation.

Yet again proving my point about special treatment here on the board. Other posters have been publicly admonished by Greg for accusations of trolling. Yet you are free to do so.

What else would you have me do? Greg himself has called you a troll. Start to take the hind Ricki. Your personal stalking/attacking of me and accusations against this forum of bias are pure troll behavior. I'm quite happpy to co-exist with you here, but you seemingly can't abide it for some reason.

Edit your post: "This Angus Reid poll from November 8th shows the Liberals up eight points."

[Ricki Bobbi]

What else would you have me do? Greg himself has called you a troll. Start to take the hind Ricki. Your personal stalking/attacking of me and accusations against this forum of bias are pure troll behavior. I'm quite happpy to co-exist with you here, but you seemingly can't abide it for some reason.

You are quite happy to attack my posts, swear at me, call me names and have me meekly submit. Don't think I agree with that definition of co-existence Gerry.

[geoffrey]

You two are a considerable annoyance to everyone here, just to let you in on that... take your bickering elsewhere, no one else really cares about the little emotional issues between yourselves.

Anyways, back to the real topic. Sure. The polls are even.

But are you actually serious that 6% of CPC supporters have left the party for global warming issues? PLEASE. People didn't vote CPC to change the environment. They knew what Harper and the merry men were going to go with Kyoto... that was never a secret.

The change in support is dependant on other issues, not global warming. I think Income Trusts is one. I think the scandals (which I personally believe are unjustified, but the media disagrees with me) of MacKay and whatnot might have swung a few more.

[Canadian Blue]

Regardless of what the Liberals did or didn't do in the past (which seems to be the Conservative answer to everything) the public is just recently sensing the real truth and urgency of Global Warming. It's finally broken through the lies that companies like Exxon has spent millions on. So NOW the question is what will our leadership do and Canadians look at what's happening and they see our leadership being condemned for turning it's back on international agreements. Canadians want to keep our Kyoto targets, that is a fact.

How are we going to keep our Kyoto targets, alot of the other developed nation's have also said they will have trouble meeting Kyoto targets. By the way who was in power for 13 years yet failed to really do much on the environment???

Bob Rae will triumph over Stephen Harper in stunning fashion, that's my prediction.

Lets see, we have a guy that was out of the country for most of his life, another who was a failed premier of Ontario. Wow great options.

[Ricki Bobbi]

Anyways, back to the real topic. Sure. The polls are even.

But are you actually serious that 6% of CPC supporters have left the party for global warming issues? PLEASE. People didn't vote CPC to change the environment. They knew what Harper and the merry men were going to go with Kyoto... that was never a secret.

The change in support is dependant on other issues, not global warming. I think Income Trusts is one. I think the scandals (which I personally believe are unjustified, but the media disagrees with me) of MacKay and whatnot might have swung a few more.

That polls aren't even. Angus Reid released two polls within a week of each other that should considerably different results. One showed the CPC up seven points.

The electorate is still volatile.

[normanchateau]

But are you actually serious that 6% of CPC supporters have left the party for global warming issues? PLEASE. People didn't vote CPC to change the environment. They knew what Harper and the merry men were going to go with Kyoto... that was never a secret.

True, people didn't vote CPC because they were for Kyoto. On the other hand, could they have anticipated the lame (even by CPC standards) Clean Air Act or anticipated that the former Canadian leader of Focus on the Family, an extreme religious group that does not believe in global warming, would be appointed Chief of Staff to the Environment Ministry? As reported in Christianity Today, less extreme religious groups than Focus on the Family are now being criticized by Focus on the Family for daring to suggest that there is good scientific evidence of global warming. Link:

http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/8/162005d.asp

[Canadian Blue]

Polls will rarely show what how the election will turn out until the actual election.

Norman, focus on the family does more then political activism. Should we not allow members of GLAAD to be involved in government because of their beliefs which are to the far left of the political spectrum.

As well the appointment of a Green Party deputy to help with the Environmental policy in government shows that the government is taking a more bipartisan approach.

[betsy]

But are you actually serious that 6% of CPC supporters have left the party for global warming issues? PLEASE. People didn't vote CPC to change the environment. They knew what Harper and the merry men were going to go with Kyoto... that was never a secret.

True, people didn't vote CPC because they were for Kyoto. On the other hand, could they have anticipated the lame (even by CPC standards) Clean Air Act or anticipated that the former Canadian leader of Focus on the Family, an extreme religious group that does not believe in global warming, would be appointed Chief of Staff to the Environment Ministry? As reported in Christianity Today, less extreme religious groups than Focus on the Family are now being criticized by Focus on the Family for daring to suggest that there is good scientific evidence of global warming. Link:

http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/8/162005d.asp

But do people really measure the "lameness" of the Act...or do they instead judge the practicality of it?

Like if you tell me the Act is "lame"...I'll ask you, lame compared to what? Of course, compared to what the previous government had done! And what have they done?

[betsy]

Today on Question Period, Craig Oliver interviewed the chairman of the Kyoto thingy (De Boer), in Nairobi, the one that Ambrose is going to attend.

Craig Oliver, obviously wanted to skewer Ambrose through this guy attempted several questions in various way or form...trying to get De Boer to criticize Ambrose and the Conservative Party.

This guy instead said that most of the 15 members of Kyoto are all saying that they are having a hard time meeting the target...and are also doubting the attainability of it!

This guys said that they need to include domestic policies...which by the way, Ambrose already did in the new Act!

This guy also insisted that as far as he knows, Ambrose or the Conservative Government have not backed away from Kyoto...but are still constructively communicating...and discussing!

Looks like this guy is welcoming any other suggestions or input. Makes sense if most of your members are all failing, then better try something else!

It's the anti-Harper media, yep politicising and using the environment issue to discredit the government...the peanut gallery er I mean the press gallery that is...whose noses are still out of joint and are all still out for blood!

Taber interviewed Ambrose right after the interview with de Boer...and also tried to twist what de Boer had said (or she's got terrible listening skills). Ambrose had to correct her twice, in reference to what de Boer had said. Taber was abrasive with Ambrose, wanting to know if Ambrose was affected by the personal criticisms she got (that included her hair). And when Ambrose replied that it's all politics and that she's not affected by it, Taber said that Ambrose must've developed a thick skin then!

Taber is unprofessional and so brazenly partisan...I just turned the tv off!

I hardly tune in to MDuffy now that she's the one filling for him on a regular basis!

Her screechy voice is as grating as her attitude!

[normanchateau]

Norman, focus on the family does more then political activism.

I fully acknowledge this. However, I believe that Darrel Reid was probably not a good choice for Chief of Staff. He was an embarrassment to CPC when he ran in the January, 2006, election. The president of the CPC constituency association actually resigned when Reid got the CPC nomination. Is Reid really a wise political appointment for the Harper government?

[geoffrey]

Norman, focus on the family does more then political activism.

I fully acknowledge this. However, I believe that Darrel Reid was probably not a good choice for Chief of Staff. He was an embarrassment to CPC when he ran in the January, 2006, election. The president of the CPC constituency association actually resigned when Reid got the CPC nomination. Is Reid really a wise political appointment for the Harper government?

He was a very poor choice, the optics are nasty and it reeks of cronyism. There are hundreds of people out there more appropriate... being they have some environmental experience... and still support the CPC ideals on the topic. Why him? I couldn't explain that. It's ugly.

[Ricki Bobbi]

He was a very poor choice, the optics are nasty and it reeks of cronyism. There are hundreds of people out there more appropriate... being they have some environmental experience... and still support the CPC ideals on the topic. Why him? I couldn't explain that. It's ugly.

Hundreds?

There aren't that many people with Hill 'type' communications experience and connections within the party who could do the job.

Corporate communications and being a director of communications for a Minister are very different jobs.

[geoffrey]

He was a very poor choice, the optics are nasty and it reeks of cronyism. There are hundreds of people out there more appropriate... being they have some environmental experience... and still support the CPC ideals on the topic. Why him? I couldn't explain that. It's ugly.

Hundreds?

There aren't that many people with Hill 'type' communications experience and connections within the party who could do the job.

Corporate communications and being a director of communications for a Minister are very different jobs.

Absolutely. But you do admit he's a poor choice for optics? I'm just saying some of the latest CPC decisions really boggle the mind, they are very ugly in the media's eyes and I wonder why they'd play them so close to a big Liberal momentum event?

[normanchateau]

Norman, focus on the family does more then political activism.

I fully acknowledge this. However, I believe that Darrel Reid was probably not a good choice for Chief of Staff. He was an embarrassment to CPC when he ran in the January, 2006, election. The president of the CPC constituency association actually resigned when Reid got the CPC nomination. Is Reid really a wise political appointment for the Harper government?

He was a very poor choice, the optics are nasty and it reeks of cronyism. There are hundreds of people out there more appropriate... being they have some environmental experience... and still support the CPC ideals on the topic. Why him? I couldn't explain that. It's ugly.

Yes, that's my take on it. I don't really see Darrel Reid doing any harm to the environment but I think his appointment actually does harm to the CPC.