CP: Klein tells PM Harper to lighten up with media

normanchateau · November 12, 2006

So the poorest among us are receiving the greatest benefit from these Conserative initiatives...

Sure they are...

And Stephen Harper is not a social conservative and Afghanistan is a democracy, not a theocracy.

And the softwood lumber deal that Liberal Cabinet Minister David Emerson rejected was a bad deal and the softwood lumber deal that Conservative Cabinet Minister David Emerson accepted is evidence of Harper's brilliance on economic issues.

And the tax on income trusts is not a broken promise.

Ricki Bobbi · November 12, 2006

And the softwood lumber deal that Liberal Cabinet Minister David Emerson rejected was a bad deal and the softwood lumber deal that Conservative Cabinet Minister David Emerson accepted is evidence of Harper's brilliance on economic issues.
And the tax on income trusts is not a broken promise.

Paul Martin rejected the deal, not Emerson.

The promise was to protect seniors, which they have done.

While you were trying to be a smart*ss you actually stated the truth. Good for you. :lol:

normanchateau · November 12, 2006

And the softwood lumber deal that Liberal Cabinet Minister David Emerson rejected was a bad deal and the softwood lumber deal that Conservative Cabinet Minister David Emerson accepted is evidence of Harper's brilliance on economic issues.
And the tax on income trusts is not a broken promise.

Paul Martin rejected the deal, not Emerson.

The promise was to protect seniors, which they have done.

Paul Martin rejected the deal on the advice of David Emerson. Stephen Harper accepted the deal on the advice of David Emerson.

And the broken promise, as everyone but you is aware, was not to tax the income trusts.

But I am very pleased at your continuing valiant but futile attempts to defend Mr. Harper. I think you'd make

a fine political aide to Mr. Harper and a better Chief of Staff to Rona Ambrose than Darrel Reid,

Ricki Bobbi · November 12, 2006

Paul Martin rejected the deal on the advice of David Emerson. Stephen Harper accepted the deal on the advice of David Emerson.
And the broken promise, as everyone but you is aware, was not to tax the income trusts.

But I am very pleased at your continuing valiant but futile attempts to defend Mr. Harper. I think you'd make

a fine political aide to Mr. Harper and a better Chief of Staff to Rona Ambrose than Darrel Reid,

How do you know what *advice* Emerson gave Martin and Harper? You have got to be freakin' kidding to say something like that.

Hmmm, futile efforts? The party is still leading all published polls. They would win an election if it were held today. Possibly a majority depending on the poll. Doesn't sound like futility to me.

normanchateau · November 12, 2006

How do you know what *advice* Emerson gave Martin and Harper?

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=7113

Ricki Bobbi · November 12, 2006

How do you know what *advice* Emerson gave Martin and Harper?

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=7113

You know the advice Emerson gave Martin and Harper because a representative from BC Lumber company said Emerson gave advice to Martin?

How did this guy know?

normanchateau · November 12, 2006

How do you know what *advice* Emerson gave Martin and Harper?

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=7113

You know the advice Emerson gave Martin and Harper because a representative from BC Lumber company said Emerson gave advice to Martin?

How did this guy know?

David Gray is also the spokesman for the Montreal-based Free Trade Lumber Council which has negotiated with Emerson throughout the entire softwood lumber deal deliberation. Gray was there in 2006, 2005 and 2004. Emerson was the middleman and negotiator between the US lumber lobby and the Canadian lumber lobby, e.g., the Free Trade Lumber Council. If you think David Gray is a liar, you're entitled to that opinion.

But I believe him.

Ricki Bobbi · November 12, 2006

David Gray is also the spokesman for the Montreal-based Free Trade Lumber Council which has negotiated with Emerson throughout the entire softwood lumber deal deliberation. Gray was there in 2006, 2005 and 2004. Emerson was the middleman and negotiator between the US lumber lobby and the Canadian lumber lobby, e.g., the Free Trade Lumber Council. If you think David Gray is a liar, you're entitled to that opinion.
But I believe him.

Of course you do. It still doesn't provide any support for saying the advice Emerson gave Harper was different from the advice Emerson gave Martin.

This is a man who represents a group that argued against a settlement and wants a trade war over the issue.

normanchateau · November 12, 2006

David Gray is also the spokesman for the Montreal-based Free Trade Lumber Council which has negotiated with Emerson throughout the entire softwood lumber deal deliberation. Gray was there in 2006, 2005 and 2004. Emerson was the middleman and negotiator between the US lumber lobby and the Canadian lumber lobby, e.g., the Free Trade Lumber Council. If you think David Gray is a liar, you're entitled to that opinion.
But I believe him.

This is a man who represents a group that argued against a settlement and wants a trade war over the issue.

Of course he argued against the settlement that Emerson got.

Lumber companies are now paying more in export taxes than they did in illegal duties.

Ricki Bobbi · November 12, 2006

Of course he argued against the settlement that Emerson got.
Lumber companies are now paying more in export taxes than they did in illegal duties.

Selective editing. I take it you did that because you are backing off your statement that Emerson gave different *advice* to Martin and Harper.

normanchateau · November 12, 2006

Of course he argued against the settlement that Emerson got.
Lumber companies are now paying more in export taxes than they did in illegal duties.

Selective editing. I take it you did that because you are backing off your statement that Emerson gave different *advice* to Martin and Harper.

No, I still believe Gray.

bk59 · November 13, 2006

The poorest among us are still better of with a 15.5% lowest Federal tax bracket, GST cut, working tax credit, transit pass credit, child care benefit and the textbook credit than they are with a 15% tax lowest tax bracket and none of the others.

Things just aren't that clear cut. Not every person or family earning within the lowest tax bracket is better off under this plan. In order to get many of these tax breaks you have to put out your own money. For example you have to purchase transit passes, or pay tuition fees and money for textbooks in order to get those two credits. The GST cut also is not helpful if you are only buying what you need to live - many of these purchases are not taxed by the GST and the cut really becomes significant only if you purchase a lot of goods.

The best tax help for the working poor, as a group, is to lower the income tax for that bracket since that will actually apply to everyone. The current government's approach is complicated and the benefits unevenly distributed.

Ricki Bobbi · November 13, 2006

Things just aren't that clear cut. Not every person or family earning within the lowest tax bracket is better off under this plan. In order to get many of these tax breaks you have to put out your own money. For example you have to purchase transit passes, or pay tuition fees and money for textbooks in order to get those two credits. The GST cut also is not helpful if you are only buying what you need to live - many of these purchases are not taxed by the GST and the cut really becomes significant only if you purchase a lot of goods.
The best tax help for the working poor, as a group, is to lower the income tax for that bracket since that will actually apply to everyone. The current government's approach is complicated and the benefits unevenly distributed.

I still don't get how a 1 point cut in the GST is insignificant but a 1/2 point raise in the lowest tax bracket is helpful.

Aren't these people going anywhere? Be it transit or driving they will be helped. GST applies to gas...

Everybody ignores the working tax credit, but that helps the working poor the most. Add the GST cut, the childcare benefit and I still can't see a family that is better off under the Liberals plan. Show me the numbers and we can work them out...

geoffrey · November 13, 2006

The best tax help for the working poor, as a group, is to lower the income tax for that bracket since that will actually apply to everyone. The current government's approach is complicated and the benefits unevenly distributed.

Raising the minimum exemption, removing the GST and instituting a flat tax would be fair to the poor, encourage foreign professionals to move here (good thing considering we have no docs), and it's actually a more 'fair' taxation method, it doesn't punish progress.

Hell, it's worked fantastically in Alberta. Why not take a page from our book?

normanchateau · November 13, 2006

The best tax help for the working poor, as a group, is to lower the income tax for that bracket since that will actually apply to everyone. The current government's approach is complicated and the benefits unevenly distributed.

Raising the minimum exemption, removing the GST and instituting a flat tax would be fair to the poor, encourage foreign professionals to move here (good thing considering we have no docs), and it's actually a more 'fair' taxation method, it doesn't punish progress.

Hell, it's worked fantastically in Alberta. Why not take a page from our book?

Sure, if all the provinces had Alberta's oil and gas revenues...

And why are the provincial taxes still so high at the fuel pump in Alberta? And why do Albertans pay a monthly premium for their health care? If I'm not mistaken, only BC and Alberta residents pay health care premiums to their government.

Ricki Bobbi · November 13, 2006

Sure, if all the provinces had Alberta's oil and gas revenues...
And why are the provincial taxes still so high at the fuel pump in Alberta? And why do Albertans pay a monthly premium for their health care? If I'm not mistaken, only BC and Alberta residents pay health care premiums to their government.

Why is it always the oil and gas boogeyman? When the price of oil and gas was in the dumpers in the mid 90s Klein used the initiatives that geoffrey mentioned to help balance the budget.

You are mistaken ... again. Alberta has the lowest excise tax on a litre of gas in the country. Here's a link.

Ontario started charging a health care premium last year. It was in all the news Normie, but then again Dalton McGuinty is a darling of the left so you wouldn't want to actually tell the truth and make him look bad.

normanchateau · November 13, 2006

And why are the provincial taxes still so high at the fuel pump in Alberta? And why do Albertans pay a monthly premium for their health care? If I'm not mistaken, only BC and Alberta residents pay health care premiums to their government.

You are mistaken ... again. Alberta has the lowest excise tax on a litre of gas in the country. Here's a link.

Ontario started charging a health care premium last year. It was in all the news Normie, but then again Dalton McGuinty is a darling of the left so you wouldn't want to actually tell the truth and make him look bad.

Yes, I'm well aware that Alberta has the lowest taxes at the pump in all of Canada. But why do they need a provincial tax at all given that they have no PST on other goods?

I had no idea that Ontario was now charging a health care premium. It certainly wasn't news on the west coast. McGuinty is obviously as misguided as Campbell in BC and Klein in Alberta. Unlike income tax, these absurd health care premiums are regressive. In fact the fool Campbell actually raised our premiums by 50% a few years ago. Incidentally, both Cambell and McGuinty are Liberals. Why would they be darlings of the left? Are supporters of that so-con Harper so far right that they think provincial Liberals are left?

geoffrey · November 13, 2006

Sure, if all the provinces had Alberta's oil and gas revenues...
And why are the provincial taxes still so high at the fuel pump in Alberta? And why do Albertans pay a monthly premium for their health care? If I'm not mistaken, only BC and Alberta residents pay health care premiums to their government.

Uh oh folks, we have yet another Easterner complaining about us.

Our oil and gas revenues aren't that consistant, I wouldn't base a tax system on it. Without oil and gas... say, during the NEP when production was WAY down... we still gave more per capita into the system. It's not only oil and gas, you can't use that as an excuse for the fact that the rest of the country lags behind the world considerably in GDP growth. Canada is becoming a sad story, our economy is quickly declining behind the rest of the OECD.

You wanna know how to fix it? Tax reform. Every other country has modified, changed, editted... their tax system over the years. Canada's, other than the GST has remain unchanged for decades besides a few percentage point adjustments.

I just made a proposal that would increase productivity, along with my removal of corporate taxation. None of these has anything to do with Alberta. A flat-tax is do-able anywhere in the country if people had the political balls to have economic success.

Ontario is failing, Quebec has failed for decades, the Martimes are completely dependant... it's because of their ignorance of the reality of the international competition for business. Alberta and BC are the success stories of Canada, why? Because we've changed our tax structure to be favourable to investment. And it's worked. Newfoundland likely has as much oil, why aren't they as rich norman?

You have to look beyond the excuse of 'Alberta has oil, so we can sit on our asses and let our economy tank because we don't.' It's unacceptable. Ireland has no oil and their economy is skyrocketing. Quit it with the excuses and pressure your politicans to make changes, preferably while Ontario still has jobs left.

normanchateau · November 13, 2006

Uh oh folks, we have yet another Easterner complaining about us.

Easterner? You're the Easterner!

geoffrey · November 13, 2006

Uh oh folks, we have yet another Easterner complaining about us.

Easterner? You're the Easterner!

Well you have plenty of natural gas and likely off-shore oil so I wouldn't be too anti-oil quite yet.

Ricki Bobbi · November 13, 2006

Yes, I'm well aware that Alberta has the lowest taxes at the pump in all of Canada. But why do they need a provincial tax at all given that they have no PST on other goods?
I had no idea that Ontario was now charging a health care premium. It certainly wasn't news on the west coast. McGuinty is obviously as misguided as Campbell in BC and Klein in Alberta. Unlike income tax, these absurd health care premiums are regressive. In fact the fool Campbell actually raised our premiums by 50% a few years ago. Incidentally, both Cambell and McGuinty are Liberals. Why would they be darlings of the left? Are supporters of that so-con Harper so far right that they think provincial Liberals are left?

Your appalling ignorance about taxes is an example of why the left can't run governments. An excise tax on gas, charged by ALL provinces, is not a PST. Some provinces charge PST on top of the excise tax, some don't.

Continually crying socon is pathetic normie. *scary* *scary* *scary* didn't work in January and socon socon socon won't work either.

That's absolute crap that the Ontario Health Care premioum wasn't news on the West coast. It was National news for a good week. Ignore it all you want. It's called selective memory Normie.

Campbell is a Liberal in name only. The Liberal Party of BC is not affiliated with the Federal Liberals whatsoever. Everybody knows they are the old socreds with a new name.

The provincial Liberals in Ontario are left-leaning. There is a huge ideological difference between the Liberal Party of BC and the Liberal Party of Ontario. Take a look at the facts before hurling your 'socon' insults.

normanchateau · November 13, 2006

Yes, I'm well aware that Alberta has the lowest taxes at the pump in all of Canada. But why do they need a provincial tax at all given that they have no PST on other goods?
I had no idea that Ontario was now charging a health care premium. It certainly wasn't news on the west coast. McGuinty is obviously as misguided as Campbell in BC and Klein in Alberta. Unlike income tax, these absurd health care premiums are regressive. In fact the fool Campbell actually raised our premiums by 50% a few years ago. Incidentally, both Cambell and McGuinty are Liberals. Why would they be darlings of the left? Are supporters of that so-con Harper so far right that they think provincial Liberals are left?

The provincial Liberals in Ontario are left-leaning. There is a huge ideological difference between the Liberal Party of BC and the Liberal Party of Ontario. Take a look at the facts before hurling your 'socon' insults.

Of course the BC Liberals differ ideologically from the Ontario Liberals. But Harper remains a so-con. :lol:

gerryhatrick · November 13, 2006

Take a look at the facts before hurling your 'socon' insults.

It's an insult to be a social conservative?

blueblood · November 13, 2006

I don't know about you but i'm as equally scared of having an extreme socon running things as I am of a person who is an extreme example of the total opposite (don't know what the term is, I'll make one up, umm extreme left wingnut). A socon or a "left wingnut" who is capable of doing a good job and whats best for the country has every right to be in office and one should not pass judgement on these people just because of their ideals, pass judgement on the job they do.

normanchateau · November 13, 2006

I don't know about you but i'm as equally scared of having an extreme socon running things as I am of a person who is an extreme example of the total opposite (don't know what the term is, I'll make one up, umm extreme left wingnut). A socon or a "left wingnut" who is capable of doing a good job and whats best for the country has every right to be in office and one should not pass judgement on these people just because of their ideals, pass judgement on the job they do.

I'd rather have a leader whose vision, values and respect for civil liberties are in tune with those of most Canadians than be governed by a left wingnut or socon.