EU leaders miffed at Harper's summit cancellation

gc1765 · November 6, 2006

Presumably when the Government agreed to it the plan wasn't just to give Canada crap about abandoning Kyoto.

Presumably, the environment was probably one of the issues that they planned to discuss when the government agreed to it. If Harper believes his "made in Canada" solution is better than Kyoto, he should discuss that with them, rather than avoiding the issue.

Ricki Bobbi · November 6, 2006

Presumably, the environment was probably one of the issues that they planned to discuss when the government agreed to it. If Harper believes his "made in Canada" solution is better than Kyoto, he should discuss that with them, rather than avoiding the issue.

Actually Harper's reason for cancelling was because Kyoto was added to the agenda after he agreed to the meeting.

gc1765 · November 6, 2006

Actually Harper's reason for cancelling was because Kyoto was added to the agenda after he agreed to the meeting.

But was the environment on the agenda, or no?

gerryhatrick · November 6, 2006

Actually Harper's reason for cancelling was because Kyoto was added to the agenda after he agreed to the meeting.

But was the environment on the agenda, or no?

A better question is how does he know Kyoto was added to the agenda after Harper agreed to atend a Canada-EU summit.

As well, that is not Harper's reason for cancelling. His reason for cancelling is quite different, as given by his people.

But even IF Kyoto was added to the agenda after Harper agreed to the meeting, why would that justify cancelling?

B. Max · November 6, 2006

Why, because we trade more with the U.S.? Should our PM only meet with leaders of countries (ie the U.S.) that we trade the most with? If that's the case, why was the summit planned in the first place?

Our trade interests do lay with the US. He should meet those that have the same interests we do, and not those who interests differ from what is our best interest.

Ricki Bobbi · November 6, 2006

A better question is how does he know Kyoto was added to the agenda after Harper agreed to atend a Canada-EU summit.
As well, that is not Harper's reason for cancelling. His reason for cancelling is quite different, as given by his people.

But even IF Kyoto was added to the agenda after Harper agreed to the meeting, why would that justify cancelling?

I know it was added to the agenda after Harper agreed to attend because it was in the story you started this thread with Gerry.

Critics at home speculated that Harper didn't want to show up in Finland empty handed after European officials announced that the Kyoto Protocol accord would be on the agenda at the meetings.

Yes sometimes white lies are told in diplomatic dealings.

Again, he cancelled becaue it felt like an ambush. He made a decision about abaonding Kyoto. What is to be gained by being chastised by the EU on the decision? He won't change his mind because Kyoto is wrong for Canada. Member states of the EU won't change their minds by listenting to him.

gc1765 · November 6, 2006

Again, he cancelled becaue it felt like an ambush. He made a decision about abaonding Kyoto. What is to be gained by being chastised by the EU on the decision? He won't change his mind because Kyoto is wrong for Canada. Member states of the EU won't change their minds by listenting to him.

If his plan is as good as he thinks it is, it just might change some people's mind. At least have a debate about what is the best course of action on the environment, if the environment is indeed a serious issue to Harper. I'm sure they would have also discussed other important issues besides the environment. They must have other things to discuss or else they wouldn't have scheduled the summit in the first place.

Ricki Bobbi · November 6, 2006

If his plan is as good as he thinks it is, it just might change some people's mind. At least have a debate about what is the best course of action on the environment, if the environment is indeed a serious issue to Harper. I'm sure they would have also discussed other important issues besides the environment. They must have other things to discuss or else they wouldn't have scheduled the summit in the first place.

The plan is still being formed, it's too early to present it as fait a compli.

Who knows what else they had to discuss?

Harper didn't want to discuss Kyoto. Doesn't appear that the EU took his concerns into consdieration when making the agenda.

gerryhatrick · November 6, 2006

The reasons given by Harper & Co. for not going were two-fold:

1. He can't leave becuase if the fragility of his minority gov't.

2. The last meeting of nations was recent, so another one isn't needed.

Any way it's sliced it's a snub.

The thing is a Canada-EU summit, after all.

Ricki Bobbi · November 6, 2006

The reasons given by Harper & Co. for not going were two-fold:
1. He can't leave becuase if the fragility of his minority gov't.

2. The last meeting of nations was recent, so another one isn't needed.

Any way it's sliced it's a snub.

The thing is a Canada-EU summit, after all.

Nobodies disputing that it was a snub Gerry. Adding Kyoto to the agenda against Harper's wishes was also a snub.

gc1765 · November 6, 2006

The plan is still being formed, it's too early to present it as fait a compli.
Who knows what else they had to discuss?

Harper didn't want to discuss Kyoto. Doesn't appear that the EU took his concerns into consdieration when making the agenda.

Still being formed? The Clean air act has already been released:

OTTAWA, October 19, 2006 – The Honourable Rona Ambrose, Minister of the Environment, gave Canadians the first and central component of Canada’s New Government’s environmental Agenda when she introduced Canada’s Clean Air Act in Parliament today.

Link

Anyways, if the policy is still being formed, what better time to discuss it?

I don't know what other issues they planned to discuss, but if they are important enough issues to schedule the meeting, then they should be important enough to keep the meeting.

gc1765 · November 6, 2006

Nobodies disputing that it was a snub Gerry. Adding Kyoto to the agenda against Harper's wishes was also a snub.

I have the feeling that if it were the Liberals snubbing the Americans, they would be labelled as anti-American by conservatives.

Ricki Bobbi · November 6, 2006

oops

Ricki Bobbi · November 6, 2006

Still being formed? The Clean air act has already been released:
Anyways, if the policy is still being formed, what better time to discuss it?

It still has to go through committee and pass parliament.

It will be discussed in Canada, by Canadians.

Once a consensus has been reached in Canada then it would be appropriate to discuss it internationally as the Canadian position.

I have the feeling that if it were the Liberals snubbing the Americans, they would be labelled as anti-American by conservatives.

Probably.

The left is using this to label Harper as anti-Kyoto. Which he is. That's why the Government is 'polishing' the made in Canada plan.

gerryhatrick · November 6, 2006

The latest interesting twist on this:

NDP offers way for 'chicken' PM to attend EU summit
OTTAWA - The opposition has offered to sideline one of its own MPs so that Prime Minister Stephen Harper can attend a controversial meeting with European Union leaders this month in Finland without the threat of his minority government being defeated.

New Democratic Party Leader Jack Layton made the offer in a speech Sunday to party officials and said there is nothing that now stands in the way of the prime minister living up to his international commitments.

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/politics...d1d01abc2b&

Now his excuse is gone.

Ricki Bobbi · November 6, 2006

Now his excuse is gone.

So....

He still won't go. Still isn't willing to be scolded like a child by the EU for a policy choice.

Great work Layton. You sure stuck it to the PM. :lol:

watching&waiting · November 6, 2006

It really is childish to think that the opposition can force or even shame Harper into going to a summit that he would rather not attend. It is not that his being there serves any special purpose. If harper wanted to use it as a platform to show his own views on Global Warming then he would go. He has many things that I am sure he will find to do, instead of the EU Summit. Since all of our own major releationships run North - South. The East -West will just have to wait its turn. Canada is embarking in a new direction from Kyoto and there is nothing the EU or any other group can do to change that.

I kind of like the fact that Harper will not prostitute himself to garner favours like Layton and the NDP do time and time again. That is one of the reasons I support him and his view on Global warming. What will the NDP for sold themselves for next week? This is just soo much of a temper tantrum by Layton who feels he shoudl be able to set the PM's timetable for him.

fellowtraveller · November 6, 2006

The CTV.ca story linked in the OP is an interesting read, if only because of what is not there.

What isn't there is the name or nationality of any 'critics' from the EU. That reduces the story to the level of gossip IMO, at best. At worst it is another in the long string of sleazy media slams.

Clue: Look who is named : Green Party of Canada and the Suzuki Foundation. They'd argue with Harper about the time of day.

Next.

gerryhatrick · November 7, 2006

The CTV.ca story linked in the OP is an interesting read, if only because of what is not there.
What isn't there is the name or nationality of any 'critics' from the EU.

A valid complaint that the critics are not named....although it does mention "EU Leaders" and "officials", which indicates the Green Party are not the only critics.

And if you treat the situation logically you cannot deny that the reason for not going is now invalid (given that Layton has offered to sideline an MP) and that Harper is in the region within two days of this summit.

It still begs the question: why not go?

Ricki Bobbi · November 7, 2006

two days of this summit.
It still begs the question: why not go?

He still isn't willing to be scolded like a child by the EU for a policy choice.

Why not say exactly that? Hmmm, that's the way diplomacy goes. If the EU officials were being held to the same standard ... shouldn't they speak on the record?

cybercoma · November 7, 2006

Why not go? Because it serves no purpose as far as Canadian policy is concerned.

The EU doesn't dictate to us, end of story.

Ricki Bobbi · November 7, 2006

Why not go? Because it serves no purpose as far as Canadian policy is concerned.
The EU doesn't dictate to us, end of story.

Hey, Canada is a sovereign country? The PM doesn't listen to the leader of the FOURTH party in the house of commons in deciding what events to attend?

Is that really the way you want the country to work? :lol:

geoffrey · November 7, 2006

If Harper gets scolded on Kyoto, I'd expect him to stand up and tell the EU to maybe fulfill their NATO obligations, grow some balls and help us out in Afghanistan.

The EU has no ability to lecture us on anything. They are a complete failure in meeting their obligations to the security of the world... despite many of the member nations being attacked themselves.

Canada is a world leader, EU nations are not. Harper doesn't have to listen to a word they say.

gerryhatrick · November 7, 2006

Why not go? Because it serves no purpose as far as Canadian policy is concerned.
The EU doesn't dictate to us, end of story.

This is a typical tactic of the rightwing...inventing a false premise.

Nobody is suggesting that the EU should "dictate" to us.

Your false premise is that by attending this summit Harper would be dictated to.

Just not true.

gc1765 · November 7, 2006

If Harper gets scolded on Kyoto, I'd expect him to stand up and tell the EU to maybe fulfill their NATO obligations, grow some balls and help us out in Afghanistan.

Good call.

That's as good of a reason as any for him to go.