We pay while Indians live in luxury

[DangerMouse]

Sure will sport.

You be sure to enjoy your brain cell while you have it.

Okay Angus-throw-up-and-make-a-pile! Hve fun with your new movement called "Miserable-old-baldheaded-fartism!"

[AngusThermopyle]

Hve fun with your new movement called "Miserable-old-baldheaded-fartism!"

Sure will sport.

You still enjoying that brain cell?

[charter.rights]

Sure will sport.

You still enjoying that brain cell?

For heaven's sake.....did you lend him your last one?

[AngusThermopyle]

For heaven's sake.....did you lend him your last one?

You're right.

At this point its no more than mental masturbation.

Still...did you forget this?

"Miserable-old-baldheaded-fartism!" That's not a nice thing to say, really. The Conservative movement really started with major constipation and then enlisted a whole bunch of anally retentive types to form a political entity...... If not for the back door, there would have been no need to compete with the excited wet puppies called the Liberals.

It kinda looks like you were a willing contributer to this mental cycle, or should I say, circle, jerk.

So. Would either of you care to address the last meaningfull post in any more than an obviously displayed juvenile manner?

Edited April 26, 2008 by AngusThermopyle

[charter.rights]

You're right.

At this point its no more than mental masturbation.

Still...did you forget this?

It kinda looks like you were a willing contributer to this mental cycle, or should I say, circle, jerk.

So. Would either of you care to address the last meaningfull post in any more than an obviously displayed juvenile manner?

Nah. Just a bit of humour. But if you were not one of those types of typical Conservatives, you might have gotten the joke......

I've been dealing with this thread in a most respectful manner up until you decided to feed the troll and start stoking him. At that point is is useless making any more meaningful contributions since you kids seem to have gotten yourself in a game of tit for tat. If you would stop playing with yourself, we might get back on track.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Nah. Just a bit of humour. But if you were not one of those types of typical Conservatives, you might have gotten the joke......

I've been dealing with this thread in a most respectful manner up until you decided to feed the troll and start stoking him. At that point is is useless making any more meaningful contributions since you kids seem to have gotten yourself in a game of tit for tat. If you would stop playing with yourself, we might get back on track.

I will suggest that you and your friends read back a few pages and then admit that your statement is blatantly false. I would further suggest that you and the rest of your gay friends write a paper about what that stuff you drink tastes like. I am not a vodka kinda guy, but I can write a nice little story about Scotch.....I know its not creamy like the goo your kind swallows but what can I say.

[DangerMouse]

I will suggest that you and your friends read back a few pages and then admit that your statement is blatantly false. I would further suggest that you and the rest of your gay friends write a paper about what that stuff you drink tastes like. I am not a vodka kinda guy, but I can write a nice little story about Scotch.....I know its not creamy like the goo your kind swallows but what can I say.

Gay!! Yeah I am a happy person! OK OK OK! A suggested modificaton to the name--instead of "miserable," how about "cranky?" Hence: "Cranky-baldheaded-old-fartism!"

[Wild Bill]

Gay!! Yeah I am a happy person! OK OK OK! A suggested modificaton to the name--instead of "miserable," how about "cranky?" Hence: "Cranky-baldheaded-old-fartism!"

Thank you for taking time out from your busy day designing rockets and doing brain surgery to give us the benefit of your "humour".

[charter.rights]

Thank you for taking time out from your busy day designing rockets and doing brain surgery to give us the benefit of your "humour".

No. By all means, Thank YOU for recognizing he is smarter than you are....

[Jerry J. Fortin]

No. By all means, Thank YOU for recognizing he is smarter than you are....

I don't think smart has much to do with this problem. The problem itself seeks a resolution, and in order to do that reasonable people need to sit down and reach an agreement. The current position of both parties involved is unreasonable. With that in mind, any agreement is a pipe dream.

Any solution that can be agreed upon is welcomed by the citizens of this nation. There is however a tendency to ask for too much. and that happens from both sides. As a citizen, I cannot condone any agreement that would cost me any more money. We pay too much tax in this country as it is, increasing that level would have detrimental impact to the government.

[AngusThermopyle]

I don't think smart has much to do with this problem. The problem itself seeks a resolution, and in order to do that reasonable people need to sit down and reach an agreement. The current position of both parties involved is unreasonable. With that in mind, any agreement is a pipe dream.

Well if I recall correctly I've said the same thing many times now. Its my belief that you are correct in your assessment. If you move beyond the rhetoric emanating from both sides what you'll find is that progress is being made. If one ignores the activists fabricated facts one finds that many initiatives are now under way. The residential schools program is in full swing with the truth commission scheduled to start this year.

More funds allocated for Native communities and water treatment. Changes in the status of Aboriginal women to prevent abuses and dispossession in the event of death or marital breakup, also to protect them from spousal abuse (ironically the Aboriginal women are opposing these initiatives, go figure).

However Jack Asses like Shawn Brant figure its not enough and keep stirring the pot (he was arrested again on a bevy of charges, good thing). Then theres bone head moves like blocking a highway that has nothing to do with land claims, just a show of support for some other group. With this kind of brain dead tactic they actually turn public opinion against them and move further away from an equitable settlement on many issues.

For myself I'm glad to see that progress is being made at an increasingly quickening pace on these issues despite the best efforts of some on both sides of the fence to derail them.

[Wild Bill]

However Jack Asses like Shawn Brant figure its not enough and keep stirring the pot (he was arrested again on a bevy of charges, good thing). Then theres bone head moves like blocking a highway that has nothing to do with land claims, just a show of support for some other group. With this kind of brain dead tactic they actually turn public opinion against them and move further away from an equitable settlement on many issues.

Well, reason prevailed and the Caledonia blockade was removed today. My big fear was that this could have been the proverbial straw on the camel's back. The Mayor of Caledonia was quoted as saying that people were at the end of a desperate rope and talking about taking the law into their own hands. It HAS to happen sooner or later! You can't abandon an entire town with no true legal protection for literally years and expect the citizens to just keep smiling.

I wonder if the idiots who thought of a blockade to support Mr. Brant knew just how far they've pushed things...

[Oleg Bach]

Well, reason prevailed and the Caledonia blockade was removed today. My big fear was that this could have been the proverbial straw on the camel's back. The Mayor of Caledonia was quoted as saying that people were at the end of a desperate rope and talking about taking the law into their own hands. It HAS to happen sooner or later! You can't abandon an entire town with no true legal protection for literally years and expect the citizens to just keep smiling.

I wonder if the idiots who thought of a blockade to support Mr. Brant knew just how far they've pushed things...

When former Premier Harris clashed with the natives a while back and Dudely George was shot..All I saw in the interchange between the so-called white government and the native government was head butting on who was the toughest crook. What the elder natives have finally learned is that they are the little mafia and the surrogates that sit in governmental chairs are the bigger Mafia - neither is without sin or fault - all the natives want is to have what guys like Harris has..and they will get those things by doing the same things - Natives have learned from the whites.

[AngusThermopyle]

Natives have learned from the whites.

You make a good point in some regards, but I cant agree with it whole heartedly. Natives knew all about lying and stealing long before the white man ever showed up. In some tribes being a skillfull liar or thief was considered a mark of honour. This was before the white man ever set foot on this continent.

On the other hand it is probable that they have learned to refine these techniques and add a missing degree of sophistication to them due to contact with whites. This is actually the last thing this process needs. An open dialogue and realistic expectations are what are required instead.

[Oleg Bach]

You make a good point in some regards, but I cant agree with it whole heartedly. Natives knew all about lying and stealing long before the white man ever showed up. In some tribes being a skillfull liar or thief was considered a mark of honour. This was before the white man ever set foot on this continent.

On the other hand it is probable that they have learned to refine these techniques and add a missing degree of sophistication to them due to contact with whites. This is actually the last thing this process needs. An open dialogue and realistic expectations are what are required instead.

The problem is that we assume that our government is flawless and all members are honourable. We suffer a type of illusion that we can do no wrong and the we are just in every respect. Perhaps the natives are more in the realist realm then we are. Maybe they view things and people for what they really are? - "Realistic expectations" is a fleeting termanology. What does that really mean? To me a native would percieve it as getting something out of the deal but not quite as much as their white masters...If the whites truely looked upon the wiser native elders as equals there would have been a realistic and fair conclution to all indian affairs at issue. Harris when dealing with the Dudely George affair made it clear that no matter how wise and bright the seniour native leaders were - they were not and will never be equal...eg...to para phrase former Premier Harris - "I want those F***ing Indians out of that park" - the fact that he showed such base contempt and took a stance of superiourity in the conflict made it perfectly clear that there will never be any fair settlement.

THIS is the problem - When we think of "Indians" we imagine the long haired cracked out drunkard passed out on a bench after drinking a gallon of mouth wash.....Sure we have the fallen ones that were once noble prior to alcohol and dope..BUT we also have the very bright and strong braves that are just as high a quality of human being as Harris and the boys - if not superiour in some ways..THE other secondary problem is attitude. The natives have taken and absorbed the attitude of the whites...dishonour and corruption - it was bound to happen...even with good faith - decay took place...How do we regain the trust and negotiate properly? I would say we will not...the tainting and wounds are too deep...we are screwed.

[DangerMouse]

The problem is that we assume that our government is flawless and all members are honourable. We suffer a type of illusion that we can do no wrong and the we are just in every respect. Perhaps the natives are more in the realist realm then we are. Maybe they view things and people for what they really are? - "Realistic expectations" is a fleeting termanology. What does that really mean? To me a native would percieve it as getting something out of the deal but not quite as much as their white masters...If the whites truely looked upon the wiser native elders as equals there would have been a realistic and fair conclution to all indian affairs at issue. Harris when dealing with the Dudely George affair made it clear that no matter how wise and bright the seniour native leaders were - they were not and will never be equal...eg...to para phrase former Premier Harris - "I want those F***ing Indians out of that park" - the fact that he showed such base contempt and took a stance of superiourity in the conflict made it perfectly clear that there will never be any fair settlement.

THIS is the problem - When we think of "Indians" we imagine the long haired cracked out drunkard passed out on a bench after drinking a gallon of mouth wash.....Sure we have the fallen ones that were once noble prior to alcohol and dope..BUT we also have the very bright and strong braves that are just as high a quality of human being as Harris and the boys - if not superiour in some ways..THE other secondary problem is attitude. The natives have taken and absorbed the attitude of the whites...dishonour and corruption - it was bound to happen...even with good faith - decay took place...How do we regain the trust and negotiate properly? I would say we will not...the tainting and wounds are too deep...we are screwed.

AHH Harris was wimp who is probably a cinkled up crankly old bald headed fart now....he was a wimp for launching an attack when women and children were present....wimp all the way...that's the redneck way--big and tough when they have lots of backups...freakin wimp

[Wild Bill]

THIS is the problem - When we think of "Indians" we imagine the long haired cracked out drunkard passed out on a bench after drinking a gallon of mouth wash.....Sure we have the fallen ones that were once noble prior to alcohol and dope..BUT we also have the very bright and strong braves that are just as high a quality of human being as Harris and the boys - if not superiour in some ways..THE other secondary problem is attitude. The natives have taken and absorbed the attitude of the whites...dishonour and corruption - it was bound to happen...even with good faith - decay took place...How do we regain the trust and negotiate properly? I would say we will not...the tainting and wounds are too deep...we are screwed.

Actually, when I think of "Indians" I think of some of the posters to this board. You know, the guys who speak as if all natives are entirely right and all whites are entirely wrong. The guys who accuse anyone who disagrees with them as being racist.

They are some of the loudest native voices I hear so I tend to assume that they are typical of all. Not logical, I know. I have to constantly try to correct myself.

Perhaps if I heard some different native views once in a while instead of the same old 'broken record"...

[AngusThermopyle]

They are some of the loudest native voices I hear so I tend to assume that they are typical of all. Not logical, I know. I have to constantly try to correct myself.

I can understand that, sometimes I start to think that as well. When that happens I think about my friends (you know, the ones CR claims are trophy friends), these guys are the same as any average Joe. They work, take care of their homes and families, perhaps thats why some on this board regard them with scorn.

Incidentally, sometimes we do discuss Caledonia and blockades. These guys are Blackfoot, when you talk to them about Six Nations, well, lets just say they have nothing nice to say about Six Nations and Mohawks. Why would they though, these guys all work and are respected within our little community. They don't even talk about blocking roads and destroying property.

What I find particularly telling is the response to suggestions that personal responsibility be employed to help affect change. The reaction is always the same, condemnation and accusations of racism, never any acknowledgment of the concept. So, in effect responsibility is a taboo subject and continued demands and hand outs are the order of the day. This actually speaks loud and clear to me. Well, you also get the meaningless spew type of answers, we've seen plenty of examples here lately. No solutions offered though, just demands for more and more and the mantra of "its not my fault, its all whiteys fault.

Hardly productive, rational or helpfull in any way.

[DangerMouse]

I can understand that, sometimes I start to think that as well. When that happens I think about my friends (you know, the ones CR claims are trophy friends), these guys are the same as any average Joe. They work, take care of their homes and families, perhaps thats why some on this board regard them with scorn.

Incidentally, sometimes we do discuss Caledonia and blockades. These guys are Blackfoot, when you talk to them about Six Nations, well, lets just say they have nothing nice to say about Six Nations and Mohawks. Why would they though, these guys all work and are respected within our little community. They don't even talk about blocking roads and destroying property.

What I find particularly telling is the response to suggestions that personal responsibility be employed to help affect change. The reaction is always the same, condemnation and accusations of racism, never any acknowledgment of the concept. So, in effect responsibility is a taboo subject and continued demands and hand outs are the order of the day. This actually speaks loud and clear to me. Well, you also get the meaningless spew type of answers, we've seen plenty of examples here lately. No solutions offered though, just demands for more and more and the mantra of "its not my fault, its all whiteys fault.

Hardly productive, rational or helpfull in any way.

You freakin dorks don't even realize that the Indan Act is the most racist piece of Canadian legislation written by whites...get that through your thick skulls you idiots....

[Wild Bill]

You freakin dorks don't even realize that the Indan Act is the most racist piece of Canadian legislation written by whites...get that through your thick skulls you idiots....

Do you kiss your mother with that mouth?

[DangerMouse]

Do you kiss your mother with that mouth?

What's that scott peterson type right winger phoney.........does your wife trust living with you?

[charter.rights]

Do you kiss your mother with that mouth?

Considering where your mouth has been I'd be surprise if you wife still let's you kiss her...

[Who's Doing What?]

How is that guy still on these boards?????????

WTF??

[JCAN]

You freakin dorks don't even realize that the Indan Act is the most racist piece of Canadian legislation written by whites...get that through your thick skulls you idiots....

I have a great idea lets abolish the Indian act and give all the Indian's the same rights as us white people have, the right to pay taxes, work for their money and build their own houses. Then we will all be truly equal.

[AngusThermopyle]

I have a great idea lets abolish the Indian act and give all the Indian's the same rights as us white people have, the right to pay taxes, work for their money and build their own houses. Then we will all be truly equal.

Thats an idea I've proposed myself, seems like a pretty good idea. Its just too bad it wouldn't work. The goal here is not equality, it never has been. The goal is to be equal with privileges, special rights that apply to a few, not all.

The good news is that some groups realize the self defeating nature of this goal and have undertaken to change things. On the news this morning was a story about a band up north (I think somewhere around Hudson Bay, wasn't listening at first). This band made international news years ago when they showed footage of youths sniffing gas and running wild. The present band leader enacted prohibition and according to the news piece it has caused a radical change in the community.

Of course there are those who whine about their rights being violated but overwhelmingly the response has been positive. They interviewed young people and you could tell they were happier than previously. The community looked better and as the band leader said, there are far less children going to school hungry now.

This band is an example of what can be accomplished when individuals accept personal responsibility for their situation and work to change it. This is a band who should be congratulated and applauded for the initiatives they've enacted. A positive example for all others.