Federal Liberal Party Civil War - Part II

[August1991]

Chretien vs. Martin was fun to watch. But Ignatieff's latest flakey meanderings on la nation québécoise seem to be provoking once again the Civil War.

I wonder when the sponsorship scandal will be raised? Ignatieff had nothing to do with it and he (or his supporters) are sure to bring out the artillery at some point.

Anyway, here's David Peterson on the Number One Son of the Liberals' Augustus:

David Peterson, a former Liberal premier of Ontario who is now chancellor of the University of Toronto, said the Liberals must confront the constitutional status of Quebec, and that a leadership race is the appropriate forum for that debate.

"Most of the leading political leadership in Quebec, and I'm talking about federalists like Jean Charest, believe that without some formal recognition of Quebec uniqueness, distinctiveness and nationhood within Canada, there will always be a gaping wound," said Peterson, who supports Ignatieff's leadership bid and was an ardent defender of the failed Meech Lake constitutional accord, which, among other things, would have recognized Quebec as a "distinct society."

He also took a swipe at Trudeau — whose late father, iconic Liberal prime minister Pierre Elliott Trudeau, held views similar to those expressed by his son — dryly noting, "I didn't realize he was a constitutional thinker. He should try making that speech in Iraq, or Lebanon."

Toronto Star

More to follow.

[August1991]

From: Apps, Alfred [mailto:[email protected]]

Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 8:56 PM

To: Apps, Alfred

Subject: The New Treason of Old Ideas

Importance: High

> Dear Friends:

>

> Many of you, knowing that I am both a strong support of Michael Ignatieff and an unrepentant devotee of Pierre Trudeau's vision of Canada, have enquired how I reconcile their two perspectives on the question of 'Quebec as a nation within Canada'. I was inspired to do so when, by happenstance, I ran into Justin Trudeau on November 1, 2006 in Pierre Elliott Trudeau Airport in Montreal. This was immediately after he had been reported in the press as saying "nationalism is an old idea" but prior to his remark that Ignatieff was "intelligent but not wise". I was able to engage him in discussion on the Quebec question for 15-20 minutes. In the course of that, I was struck by two things: the shallowness of his arguments were and how tenaciously he held on to them. After completing my own reflection, I have come to the conclusion that Pierre Trudeau, were he alive today, would endorse Michael Ignatieff's view and dismiss that of his own son.

Paul Wells

[jdobbin]

So what do you think of Harper's proposal?

[watching&waiting]

I think that the position of Harper and the Quebec is a nation thing is just what it appears to be and that is politicing at its very grass roots level. Yes it will be seen as throwing Quebec a bone, but as long as that bone does not have a price tag to it, then so what. It is not what I would have hoped for but politically speaking it was a very estude move on Harper's part.

I suppose that Harper will be now seing that an election will be coming in the spring and he will of course position himself toward the best stance to defend his party. That will get the Liberal all upset as they are used to being the ones who have that power and now they do not have it, they will cry foul. I look forward to seeing just what of the many things will creep out as being an issue in this election, but you can pretty much count on CPC showing that they need a majority if they are to get the job done. They will be pointing to all the foot dragging by the Liberal senate on the bills that most Canadians wanted passed long ago, and the many other things that show just how still corrupt the Liberals really are.

Withinthe next two weeks we will also see the Liberal party themselves feeding on each other and trying to destroy their opponents. There will also be plenty of dirt slung around there, for election fodder next spring as well. I do not think it will matter who becomes party leader as the party is so fractured that there will be little time to organize and plan for an election.

[Canuck E Stan]

So what do you think of Harper's proposal?

Just curious JB, do you ever comment on a topic without having to ask everyone a question first? Gunning for moderator position at MLW?

[Cameron]

Thanks to all who spun this off topic.

[jdobbin]

Just curious JB, do you ever comment on a topic without having to ask everyone a question first? Gunning for moderator position at MLW?

I'd never take a moderator job on a forum like this because I'm partisan and it requires someone who probably has an interest only in running the website rather than participating in discussions.

As for the question, I don't think I ask what people think every time. I don't have a particular position on recognizing Quebec as a nation because I have no idea what the impact will be. I am curious as to what people here might be thinking. I'd honestly like to know whether this helps separation or helps understanding Quebec as a province.

[jdobbin]

Withinthe next two weeks we will also see the Liberal party themselves feeding on each other and trying to destroy their opponents. There will also be plenty of dirt slung around there, for election fodder next spring as well. I do not think it will matter who becomes party leader as the party is so fractured that there will be little time to organize and plan for an election.

Don't you think that Harper opening the discussion up changes the dynamics of what the Liberal party's discussion of the subject? It is one thing to have a leadership campaign on a hypothetical idea of recognizing Quebec as a nation and quite a different thing to have Harper announce it as a policy.

[watching&waiting]

It changes the dynamics of course, and that is why aI said that this was a good political move on Harpers part and that yes it seems that he has made up his mind to get ready for spring elections. It may well be Harper himself that will make the call on that. The Liberals have gone too far in many things and I believe that they will not even be close to being ready by spring for an election. But what we all forget Harper is also quite capable to force that call, and he will not be waiting for the timing to be on the oppositions side. It is just politics that are played and Harper knows that game, as dor the rest.

[jdobbin]

It changes the dynamics of course, and that is why aI said that this was a good political move on Harpers part and that yes it seems that he has made up his mind to get ready for spring elections. It may well be Harper himself that will make the call on that. The Liberals have gone too far in many things and I believe that they will not even be close to being ready by spring for an election. But what we all forget Harper is also quite capable to force that call, and he will not be waiting for the timing to be on the oppositions side. It is just politics that are played and Harper knows that game, as dor the rest.

I think you might be right that the Liberals might not be ready. They needed a shorter leadership race because all they do if find things to divide them rather than unite them.

The Bloq has brought this to a head and now Harper has to respond.

It might actually take the heat off the Liberals at least on the Quebec issue. And Liberal candidates who just like to shoot down positions or not really offer an opinion will have to respond to Harper.