Why are the Conservatives Killing the Wheat Board?

geoffrey · February 25, 2007

I can't believe anyone would support a government that comes up with such a crooked ballot. They have no shame at all. It's actually far worse than even the PQ would do with a referendum ballot.

What's wrong with the ballot?

Canuck E Stan · February 25, 2007

When will people smarten up to the fact that we have a maverick in parliment who will do as he wants and to H**l with what the farmers or anyone else wants.

Market Choice Alliance (MCA)

“This barley plebiscite is an exciting, once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for us to vote for marketing choice and for a strong, viable and voluntary Canadian Wheat Board that works for everyone,” says Charles Anderson of Rose Valley, Saskatchewan speaking for the Alliance.
“We are a group that is firmly committed to preserving and strengthening the Canadian Wheat Board. At the same time, we want to give barley producers the opportunity to choose what’s best for their farm.”

“Farmers have an opportunity to create a modern CWB to serve us for many years to come”, noted Anderson. “Failure to move now will result in the CWB’s eventual demise – its death brought on by a lack of flexibility and inability to serve the needs of all farmers.”

The group believes voting for marketing choice gives Prairie barley farmers:

* A thriving and competitive Canadian barley industry;

* A strong CWB;

* Continuing price pooling under a voluntary CWB;

* Additional risk management tools;

* Greater barley marketing and payment options;

* Local processing plants;

* More research which could lead to new varieties; and

* A malt industry that re-invests on the prairies.

Why is it called the Canadian Wheat Board?

The designated area over which the Canadian Wheat Board (CWB) has monopoly powers is only in Western Canada and does not apply to Eastern Canada.

Ontario has its own wheat board which is totally optional and where farmers have the right to sell to whoever they choose.

Wilber · February 25, 2007

Ah so now you "rational lies" the welfare by saying others are doing it so we should too?

Has nothing to do with "should", as long as others continue to do it, you don't have much choice other than losing the industry.

blueblood · February 25, 2007

Geoff: Some thought the ballot had a loaded question, using I in the free choice was supposed to be some kind of psych thing. The more I look at it, I am becoming more convinced that the wheat board will survive if there is marketing choice. With support as high as 75% I don't think the wheat board is going anywhere. Now that the wheat board will have to compete, in theory they should be able to get us a higher price. The CWB has a chance now to become a very competitive marketer of grain and to turn over profits. Like it or not with the biofuel industry about to eat up the surplus of grain and oilseed we won't have to worry for too much longer. Canola doesn't fall under the wheat board and it's price is getting to be sky high.

prices

As far as using tax dollars to hand out "welfare" that is getting ridiculous. Using geoff's tax logic would help us the most and what farmers contribute in taxes can go into funding co-operatives to compete in order to drive input costs down. I heard of a guy who can eliminate his fuel inputs. A co-operative is pretty much the same as a corporation except that it's not how many shares you buy determines how much money you get it's that one shareholder gets one share and the profits are divided up equally and a cheque comes in the mail once a year.

page

We're almost out of the woods.

jdobbin · February 25, 2007

Agriculture Subsidies
"The Ottawa plan is expected to offer farm aid of $5.2 billion over five years, with the same proportion offered in 1999: 60 per cent from Ottawa, 40 per cent from the provinces. If the provinces kick in the 40 per cent, it could amount to an aid package for farmers of about $8.18 billion over five years."

Farmer Welfare

And once again, this has nothing to do with the Wheat Board. It is not a subsidy.

jdobbin · February 25, 2007

Geoff: Some thought the ballot had a loaded question, using I in the free choice was supposed to be some kind of psych thing. The more I look at it, I am becoming more convinced that the wheat board will survive if there is marketing choice. With support as high as 75% I don't think the wheat board is going anywhere. Now that the wheat board will have to compete, in theory they should be able to get us a higher price. The CWB has a chance now to become a very competitive marketer of grain and to turn over profits. Like it or not with the biofuel industry about to eat up the surplus of grain and oilseed we won't have to worry for too much longer. Canola doesn't fall under the wheat board and it's price is getting to be sky high.
prices

As far as using tax dollars to hand out "welfare" that is getting ridiculous. Using geoff's tax logic would help us the most and what farmers contribute in taxes can go into funding co-operatives to compete in order to drive input costs down. I heard of a guy who can eliminate his fuel inputs. A co-operative is pretty much the same as a corporation except that it's not how many shares you buy determines how much money you get it's that one shareholder gets one share and the profits are divided up equally and a cheque comes in the mail once a year.

page

We're almost out of the woods.

Canola is being helped by the government assistance for bio-fuel.

The Canadian Wheat Board will be illegal in a dual marketing situation. It will not be allowed under the WTO to sell barley if it loses its monopoly.

jdobbin · February 25, 2007

Why is it called the Canadian Wheat Board?
The designated area over which the Canadian Wheat Board (CWB) has monopoly powers is only in Western Canada and does not apply to Eastern Canada.

Ontario has its own wheat board which is totally optional and where farmers have the right to sell to whoever they choose.

Ontario's share of the grain industry is tiny compared to the west.

As for why the east was not included, it has been answered in this thread. You can go check.

Canuck E Stan · February 25, 2007

Ontario's share of the grain industry is tiny compared to the west.

And in a democracy,freedom to choose is based on what? Size?

blueblood · February 25, 2007

Geoff: Some thought the ballot had a loaded question, using I in the free choice was supposed to be some kind of psych thing. The more I look at it, I am becoming more convinced that the wheat board will survive if there is marketing choice. With support as high as 75% I don't think the wheat board is going anywhere. Now that the wheat board will have to compete, in theory they should be able to get us a higher price. The CWB has a chance now to become a very competitive marketer of grain and to turn over profits. Like it or not with the biofuel industry about to eat up the surplus of grain and oilseed we won't have to worry for too much longer. Canola doesn't fall under the wheat board and it's price is getting to be sky high.

prices

As far as using tax dollars to hand out "welfare" that is getting ridiculous. Using geoff's tax logic would help us the most and what farmers contribute in taxes can go into funding co-operatives to compete in order to drive input costs down. I heard of a guy who can eliminate his fuel inputs. A co-operative is pretty much the same as a corporation except that it's not how many shares you buy determines how much money you get it's that one shareholder gets one share and the profits are divided up equally and a cheque comes in the mail once a year.

page

We're almost out of the woods.

Canola is being helped by the government assistance for bio-fuel.

The Canadian Wheat Board will be illegal in a dual marketing situation. It will not be allowed under the WTO to sell barley if it loses its monopoly.

The way things are going we won't need to export barley, I can see with biofuel's coming in that feed barley is going to have to compete for acres. That in turn will drive up cattle prices. Who benefits? Mr. mixed farmer who decides he wants to finish yearlings for slaughter.

Canola is getting more helped in the veg oil market. Canola is THE healthiest veg oil there is. With places becoming trans fat free this helps us out too. Nexera Natreon Canola oil is the healthiest veg oil in creation. It's too bad it's not being sold in Canada, why? the Japanese are paying 19 bucks a litre for the stuff. My friend works at AU and gets me some, it is the best cooking oil ever. Oh and biodiesel will make it that much better.

Canuck E Stan · February 25, 2007

Nexera Natreon Canola oil is the healthiest veg oil in creation. It's too bad it's not being sold in Canada, why? the Japanese are paying 19 bucks a litre for the stuff. My friend works at AU and gets me some, it is the best cooking oil ever. Oh and biodiesel will make it that much better.

Blueblood,

Isn't Nexera Natreon grown in Canada? Is it genetically altered?

What are the thoughts about the CWB vote out your way?

-CES

blueblood · February 25, 2007

Nexera Natreon Canola oil is the healthiest veg oil in creation. It's too bad it's not being sold in Canada, why? the Japanese are paying 19 bucks a litre for the stuff. My friend works at AU and gets me some, it is the best cooking oil ever. Oh and biodiesel will make it that much better.

Blueblood,

Isn't Nexera Natreon grown in Canada? Is it genetically altered?

What are the thoughts about the CWB vote out your way?

-CES

It is grown in Canada, hell my neighbor grows it. No it is not genetically modified, it is open pollinated which means it's a pain in the ass to spray. Dow Agro Sciences website should answer your questions better than I canDowAgro

Lots in favor of CWB, I don't mind it, but I'm thinking if so many people so strongly support it, then it should do fine without the monopoly.

Posit · February 25, 2007

The Canadian Wheat Board is a subsidized marketing agency in which the farmers benefit by selling grain for them, instead of having to beat the pavement and find buyers themselves. I say that if they want to sell their own barley then let them sell all their grains on their own, remove all other subsidies, tax free status and benefits and let them make it on their own. I'm all for getting rid of government interference but what they must realize that all government welfare MUST go with it.

blueblood · February 25, 2007

The Canadian Wheat Board is a subsidized marketing agency in which the farmers benefit by selling grain for them, instead of having to beat the pavement and find buyers themselves. I say that if they want to sell their own barley then let them sell all their grains on their own, remove all other subsidies, tax free status and benefits and let them make it on their own. I'm all for getting rid of government interference but what they must realize that all government welfare MUST go with it.

What tax free status are you talking about? What subsidies? The CWB has its uses but it should compete with other buyers here. Last time I checked it's pretty hard to market my grain to Iran, that's where the CWB comes in.

The CRTC is a subsidized agency in which second rate canadian entertainers benefit by forcing Canadians to listen to their drivel on the radio and watch it on TV. Instead of having the CRTC create a market for them, they should do that themselves. Remove their protection, subsidies and benefits and let them make it on their own.

jdobbin · February 25, 2007

The Canadian Wheat Board is a subsidized marketing agency in which the farmers benefit by selling grain for them, instead of having to beat the pavement and find buyers themselves. I say that if they want to sell their own barley then let them sell all their grains on their own, remove all other subsidies, tax free status and benefits and let them make it on their own. I'm all for getting rid of government interference but what they must realize that all government welfare MUST go with it.

Please cite your "facts." You have no idea what you are talking about.

jdobbin · February 25, 2007

And in a democracy,freedom to choose is based on what? Size?

History. The western Canadian farmers didn't include the east because they didn't want them. Ontario had its own single desk Wheat Board until the year 2000 until they chose to go to a dual market.

Under the interpretation of the WTO, dual desk marketing is illegal. Once a state trading enterprise dissolves, it must stay out out of the market. There will not be a Canadian What Board period.

Cargill and the new Richardson Agricore will set the price.

At that time, we'll probably hear about the same problems that happened to the cattle industry when Tyson and Cargill took over.

jdobbin · February 25, 2007

Lots in favor of CWB, I don't mind it, but I'm thinking if so many people so strongly support it, then it should do fine without the monopoly.

It will be illegal once the monopoly is gone under WTO rules.

jdobbin · February 25, 2007

The way things are going we won't need to export barley, I can see with biofuel's coming in that feed barley is going to have to compete for acres. That in turn will drive up cattle prices. Who benefits? Mr. mixed farmer who decides he wants to finish yearlings for slaughter.
Canola is getting more helped in the veg oil market. Canola is THE healthiest veg oil there is. With places becoming trans fat free this helps us out too. Nexera Natreon Canola oil is the healthiest veg oil in creation. It's too bad it's not being sold in Canada, why? the Japanese are paying 19 bucks a litre for the stuff. My friend works at AU and gets me some, it is the best cooking oil ever. Oh and biodiesel will make it that much better.

I think that you are hitching your wagon a bit too much to the bio-fuel market. At the moment, Bush is hugely supportive of it because it creates an agricultural subsidy in disguise.

As an experiment, it is a good investment but as a substitute for oil, it has a long way to go. In other words, bio-fuel doesn't pay for itself and is dependent on the good will of government.

I have more hope for the cooking oil market but even there you have a lot of farmers chasing the profitable areas of the market. And that often means an oversupply at some point.

Canuck E Stan · February 25, 2007

And in a democracy,freedom to choose is based on what? Size?

History. The western Canadian farmers didn't include the east because they didn't want them. Ontario had its own single desk Wheat Board until the year 2000 until they chose to go to a dual market.

So because it was done then, it must stay that way til eternity?

With farmers on both sides of the fence about CWB, why not let them decide?

If they want it to stay, or want the right to choose,the vote will tell the story.

jdobbin · February 26, 2007

So because it was done then, it must stay that way til eternity?
With farmers on both sides of the fence about CWB, why not let them decide?

If they want it to stay, or want the right to choose,the vote will tell the story.

I always said that a vote should be called. Strahl wasn't going to proceed with a vote until he came under tremendous pressure. Now, he says he won't necessarily follow the farmer's wishes if they vote against keeping the single desk.

blueblood · February 26, 2007

Biofuel gets rid of unwanted supply surplus which is keeping prices down. When the law says X amount of fuel must be biofuel then there is an automatic demand. This demand is keeping prices up. It is no substitute for oil, only a "pressure remover" Being as oil is finite, this delays the process a bit. Oil has no where to go but up in price. There will be a day when it runs out. With this it takes out X amount of oil. Don't worry when biofuel gets in the "cycle" and more and more plants come online, it will be cheaper to produce. The demand for energy will always be high, I can't see it going down.

As far as cooking oil goes, the demand for biofuels will keep the supply in check. This artificial demand being created is creating a revitalized rural economy, it would be smart to cash in.

Cargill and Tyson are going to lose money on cattle when biofuels come in, their feed supply is in jeopardy. A smaller mixed outfit will have his feed already taken care of. Cargill and Tyson will have to go buying cattle again as it would be cheaper for a smaller outfit to finish the cattle on grain they grow themselves.

Nexera oil is in very high demand and you grow it based on contract, which means a guaranteed market and price. And the way the veg oil market looks, they can't get it fast enough. the only concern i'd have is if they found out if it was a carcinogen, but then the biofuels can take care of that. OPEC has two giants that will be thirsty for oil in a little bit in India and China, they'll keep the price of oil high enough for biofuels to be economically feasible.

CWB can become a cooperative and still be a major exporter, so many people support it, it could live on as a marketing firm. I don't think big marketing firms are illegal under the WTO. Plus with biofuel taking up so much crop when it kicks off, the CWB can make some serious cash marketing grain to countries willing to pay top dollar to get the limited stocks.

jdobbin · February 26, 2007

Biofuel gets rid of unwanted supply surplus which is keeping prices down. When the law says X amount of fuel must be biofuel then there is an automatic demand. This demand is keeping prices up. It is no substitute for oil, only a "pressure remover" Being as oil is finite, this delays the process a bit. Oil has no where to go but up in price. There will be a day when it runs out. With this it takes out X amount of oil. Don't worry when biofuel gets in the "cycle" and more and more plants come online, it will be cheaper to produce. The demand for energy will always be high, I can't see it going down.
As far as cooking oil goes, the demand for biofuels will keep the supply in check. This artificial demand being created is creating a revitalized rural economy, it would be smart to cash in.

Cargill and Tyson are going to lose money on cattle when biofuels come in, their feed supply is in jeopardy. A smaller mixed outfit will have his feed already taken care of. Cargill and Tyson will have to go buying cattle again as it would be cheaper for a smaller outfit to finish the cattle on grain they grow themselves.

Nexera oil is in very high demand and you grow it based on contract, which means a guaranteed market and price. And the way the veg oil market looks, they can't get it fast enough. the only concern i'd have is if they found out if it was a carcinogen, but then the biofuels can take care of that. OPEC has two giants that will be thirsty for oil in a little bit in India and China, they'll keep the price of oil high enough for biofuels to be economically feasible.

CWB can become a cooperative and still be a major exporter, so many people support it, it could live on as a marketing firm. I don't think big marketing firms are illegal under the WTO. Plus with biofuel taking up so much crop when it kicks off, the CWB can make some serious cash marketing grain to countries willing to pay top dollar to get the limited stocks.

I still think that bio-fuels from food is probably in for a fall. I think we will see bio-fuel come from other sources such as forests in the next several months. If not for the federal subsidy, there would be no oil market.

State trading enterprises are illegal under the WTO is they lose their single desk. I think the Wheat Board will be gone if it goes to dual marketing.

blueblood · February 26, 2007

still think that bio-fuels from food is probably in for a fall. I think we will see bio-fuel come from other sources such as forests in the next several months. If not for the federal subsidy, there would be no oil market.
State trading enterprises are illegal under the WTO is they lose their single desk. I think the Wheat Board will be gone if it goes to dual marketing.

Biofuels isn't really subsidized. Forests was already proven not to be a good fuel source, I'd give you the link but I read it in a newspaper. I was saying that the CWB become a cooperative not a state trading enterprise. Remember a part of the whole biofuel thing is eco-friendly, clear cutting forests would not be a good thing under the gov't. Our energy demand could support other feedstocks anyway, shipping more oil for export.

jdobbin · February 26, 2007

Biofuels isn't really subsidized. Forests was already proven not to be a good fuel source, I'd give you the link but I read it in a newspaper. I was saying that the CWB become a cooperative not a state trading enterprise. Remember a part of the whole biofuel thing is eco-friendly, clear cutting forests would not be a good thing under the gov't. Our energy demand could support other feedstocks anyway, shipping more oil for export.

Bio-fuels is subsidized. There's no getting around that statement. It cannot and does not happen without immense support from national governments. Oil based bio-fuel in Canada has a very low energy efficiency.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bio-fuel

The debate on using food for energy is starting to grow.

The Canadian Wheat Board would not survive in a privatized market. Co-ops are dying even now.

blueblood · February 26, 2007

Biofuels isn't really subsidized. Forests was already proven not to be a good fuel source, I'd give you the link but I read it in a newspaper. I was saying that the CWB become a cooperative not a state trading enterprise. Remember a part of the whole biofuel thing is eco-friendly, clear cutting forests would not be a good thing under the gov't. Our energy demand could support other feedstocks anyway, shipping more oil for export.

Bio-fuels is subsidized. There's no getting around that statement. It cannot and does not happen without immense support from national governments. Oil based bio-fuel in Canada has a very low energy efficiency.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bio-fuel

The debate on using food for energy is starting to grow.

The Canadian Wheat Board would not survive in a privatized market. Co-ops are dying even now.

I'm not concerned with the energy efficiency, over time it will get better. The main idea is to take barells of oil out of production and a market for farmers which gives better prices. Mission Accomplished.

Heres the thing, if people want grains for food and not energy, pay the bill. The days of cheap over supplied food are coming to an end. Why are people automatically entitled to cheap food? Having farmers with money in their pockets is a good thing. Since the gov't won't grant farmers royalties for producing food like recording artists get for producing music, I'll take this alternative. I do have to pay the bills after all.

jdobbin · February 26, 2007

I'm not concerned with the energy efficiency, over time it will get better. The main idea is to take barells of oil out of production and a market for farmers which gives better prices. Mission Accomplished.
Heres the thing, if people want grains for food and not energy, pay the bill. The days of cheap over supplied food are coming to an end. Why are people automatically entitled to cheap food? Having farmers with money in their pockets is a good thing. Since the gov't won't grant farmers royalties for producing food like recording artists get for producing music, I'll take this alternative. I do have to pay the bills after all.

Everyone has to be concerned over energy efficiency. It won't get better with food oils. It will only work with a subsidy.