The Greatest Crisis In Modern History

Canadian Blue · December 1, 2006

I saw the video on the FEMA "concentration camps". Why would such a camp not be guarded by and military personal while theirs military equipment on the property? When I went to Fort Drum I had to get through the Guards at the gate, and their were constantly MP's and civlian police patrolling the base.

911 being an inside job is based on piles of evidence. This can be proven a multitude of ways using independent sets of undoubtable evidence. There is NO evidence supporting the official version. Anyone that can tell their own mother from a chimp can see those tapes of Bin Laden confessing were fakes - that was not Bin Laden.

Except for people who specialize in voice recognition apparently.

There is both historic presidence and hard evidence to prove these views. Your views have nothing supporting them except your desire to believe them.

Except for all those experts who would apparently lose their jobs. Honestly, we all gave you evidence to the contrary.

The best protection from truth is to stay stupid, that way none of this will ever affect you. Maybe you can up up with an actual arguement instead of just expletives and your opinion.

If we followed your version of the truth, the thing is we'd be more likely to live in a fascist dictatorship. Since you believe in a cabal by bankers, I'd be afraid of what people would do to suspected members of this cabal. Get my point.

PolyNewbie · December 1, 2006

Canadian Blue:Except for people who specialize in voice recognition apparently.

Voice recognition from UK proved it wasn't Bin Laden as well. I don't consider that important because I can tell the difference between the real Osama and the fake.

No voice recognition expert ever said that was Bin Laden unless it was out of the Pentagon.

CahnadianBlue:Except for all those experts who would apparently lose their jobs. Honestly, we all gave you evidence to the contrary.

What evidence ? All you provided is the confession. You do not even have anyone with expertise that agrees with you that is not dependent on the government for income. You keep talking about evidence but never provide any that cannot conclusively be shown to be propoganda.

CanadianBlue: If we followed your version of the truth, the thing is we'd be more likely to live in a fascist dictatorship. Since you believe in a cabal by bankers, I'd be afraid of what people would do to suspected members of this cabal. Get my point.

Multiple main stream books have this stated. See John Kenneth Galbraith's Money or Carrol Quigleys Tragedy & Hope. Bankers have always been in control.

Canadian Blue · December 1, 2006

Voice recognition from UK proved it wasn't Bin Laden as well. I don't consider that important because I can tell the difference between the real Osama and the fake.
No voice recognition expert ever said that was Bin Laden unless it was out of the Pentagon.

How about facial reconstruction experts. Who are you to say whether its the fake Osama Bin Laden or the real one?

Besides, didn't you say something about a "phaser beam" taking down the World Trade Center. As for these supposed "experts", David Irving is a historian, however I think he's full of complete BS.

The reason why people don't believe this BS, is because you know a few of them are ticking time bombs, like Timothy McVeighs and Ted Kaczynski. Are you that paranoid that you believe anybody that disagrees with these "theories" is somehow linked to the government conspiracy.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/09/11/1345203

AMY GOODMAN: An excerpt of the film Loose Change. And as we broadcast today at this time in the live broadcast, it's the time of the first plane hitting the first tower of the World Trade Center. Jim Meigs, the editor-in-chief of Popular Mechanics, your response to this aspect in Loose Change?
JAMES MEIGS: Yeah, well, that clip is interesting. It’s built largely around the testimony of a guy named Kevin Ryan from Underwriters Laboratories. In fact, it turns out his expertise was testing water. He wasn't involved in steel at all. This fact has been widely known, and yet for quite some time -- and even a lot of other conspiracy theorists have backed away from that, and yet it's in the film. And it looks so convincing when you see it, if you don't take the time to go back and do the background research. And if you notice, so many of the clips in that section come from the day of, the day after.

And it ends -- or along the way, don't they say something like, even the experts don't agree? In fact, the experts do agree. The collapse of the World Trade Center is the most intensively studied engineering failure in world history, and thousands of pages of reports, experts, some affiliated with various branches of government, major engineering schools, there's no indication in any of that work to support any of these ideas of demolition or anything like that. And the things that are cited tend to be the experts who on close investigation turn out to have no expertise or first impressions of people on the scene who, of course, heard all kinds of horrible noises and confusing, terrible things in the chaos of that day.

AMY GOODMAN: Jason Bermas.

DYLAN AVERY: Well, real quick, I just want to jump in and say, Kevin Ryan has been open about his statement. He has always been public about the fact that he worked for the -- I don’t remember the exact name, but it was a subdivision of Underwriters Laboratories, which did water testing. But it was the fact that he got the higher-up from -- he got the word from his higher-ups that they actually had certified the steel and, I mean, his science still adds up.

DAVID DUNBAR: In fact, Underwriter Laboratories does not certify structural steel.

DYLAN AVERY: Oh, okay.

DYLAN AVERY: I would just like to quickly jump in and ask what your guys’ explanation is for Willie Rodriguez's testimony that he heard, experienced, and his co-workers were actually burned, by an explosion in the basement of the North Tower, prior to the plane hitting? And this has been verified by at least twenty different eyewitnesses.
AMY GOODMAN: Jim Meigs, of Popular Mechanics.

JAMES MEIGS: The -- when the planes struck the buildings, they penetrated the internal core. Jet fuel poured down stairwells and elevator shafts, setting off secondary explosions, not to mention the horrific impact of these fully loaded planes hitting the structure and causing enormous swaying.

DYLAN AVERY: Mr. Meigs --

JAMES MEIGS: Give me a second to finish, Dylan. It's interesting, in that testimony, he says that somebody came out of the elevator area with his skin hanging off. That would be consistent with a fire, not an explosion. And you had a short clip of Naudet brothers’ documentary about that day and of them entering the lobby, but what you didn’t have was their voiceover, where they say they saw humans on fire, which again would be completely consistent with what we saw in all the reports on this, that jet fuel came down the elevator shafts. People died. We're talking about real human beings here, you know. This wasn't a movie. This isn’t a parlor game.

DYLAN AVERY: It would have had to have been a controlled demolition. That's the only way to prove -- that’s the only way to explain what we saw with our own eyes, and any attempts to discredit that are just not scientifically sound.
JAMES MEIGS: You know, this is a wonderful example of how conspiracy theories work. Any time there’s a little bit of doubt, a little bit of area where we don't know everything, then the answer immediately is, well, someone must have blown it up. It’s a form of argumentation that’s also used by creationists. If they can find one little gap in the evolutionary record, they say evolution’s a hoax. Or Holocaust deniers --

DYLAN AVERY: Mr. Meigs, with all do respect, these are two completely different things.

JAMES MEIGS: Holocaust denial works with very similar --

PolyNewbie · December 2, 2006

CanadianBlue:How about facial reconstruction experts. Who are you to say whether its the fake Osama Bin Laden or the real one?

Look at Osamas nose and look at the imposters nose at Fake Osama Tapes (ignore the fact that one is black and the other middle eastern)

Facial recognition experts do not have the ability to differentiate between two people like ordinary people. They program computers based on a simple universal set of facial co-ordinates.

Why do you keep bringing the Holocaust into this ? Are you with the secret police ? Because you cannot win your arguement you are trying to trick me into Holocaust denial so you can have me arrested ?

BTW I listened to that whole interview. The jet that supposedly crashed in Pennslyvania did not get "completely buried underground" like the government apologist said it did. He also lied about the coroner report and them finding all the bodies underground. Dylan Avery as a 21 year old held his own and then some against a seasoned scum bag that was much older.

I wish I could get interviewed by some of these scum bags over 911. I would show a few people in this movement exactly how to handle scum bags like Meigs. I would have him for lunch and walk away laughing about it with absolutely no effort. The way to handle scum bags is to let them dig their own grave and don't help them.

PolyNewbie · December 2, 2006

CanadianBlue:Besides, didn't you say something about a "phaser beam" taking down the World Trade Center. As for these supposed "experts", David Irving is a historian, however I think he's full of complete BS.

No, I didn't. Stop trying to put words in my mouth. Lets see some EVIDENCE to support your beliefs.

Canadian Blue · December 2, 2006

Why do you keep bringing the Holocaust into this ? Are you with the secret police ? Because you cannot win your arguement you are trying to trick me into Holocaust denial so you can have me arrested ?

I'm with Mossad

Wilber · December 2, 2006

Not all true - in fact mostly not true. Not very many people think the planes were not actually planes except for the case of the Pentagon. I don't think a plane hit the Pentagon because from the physical evidence it looks like its impossible for a plane to have hit the Pentagon. There is no evidence of a plane hitting the Pentagon.

There is a lot of physical evidence of an aircraft hitting the Pentagon in the form of B757 parts and there are also eye witnesses. But never mind all that, what happened to American 77 and all the people on it?

PolyNewbie · December 2, 2006

Wilber:There is a lot of physical evidence of an aircraft hitting the Pentagon in the form of B757 parts and there are also eye witnesses

I beleive that planes hit the other buildings but a missile hit the Pentagon. I know 911 was an inside job from what happened in NY, the other locations do not provide conclusive evidence of an inside job but they do prove the government was lying. The fact that a missile or plane hit the Pentagon shows that it was permitted to by the governemnt otherwise it would have been shot down.

I do not know what hit the Pentagon but think it was a missile. Where is there evidence of a plane hitting it ?

Lots of highly qualified people to look at such things think it was a missile.

There are eye witnesses to everything surrounding the Pentagon crash. If you wanted to say it was martians there is probably a witness for that.

Wilber · December 2, 2006

Wilber:There is a lot of physical evidence of an aircraft hitting the Pentagon in the form of B757 parts and there are also eye witnesses

I beleive that planes hit the other buildings but a missile hit the Pentagon. I know 911 was an inside job from what happened in NY, the other locations do not provide conclusive evidence of an inside job but they do prove the government was lying. The fact that a missile or plane hit the Pentagon shows that it was permitted to by the governemnt otherwise it would have been shot down.

I do not know what hit the Pentagon but think it was a missile. Where is there evidence of a plane hitting it ?

Lots of highly qualified people to look at such things think it was a missile.

There are eye witnesses to everything surrounding the Pentagon crash. If you wanted to say it was martians there is probably a witness for that.

Where is the evidence it was a missile?

It must have been a missile loaded full of 757 debris including major engine parts and complete landing gear assemblies. You didn't answer the question though, what happened to American 77 and all the people on it on the morning of Sept 11, 2001 if it didn't hit the Pentagon.

PolyNewbie · December 2, 2006

Wilbur:It must have been a missile loaded full of 757 debris including major engine parts and complete landing gear assemblies. You didn't answer the question though, what happened to American 77 and all the people on it on the morning of Sept 11, 2001 if it didn't hit the Pentagon.

I didn't see any parts of anything on the photos of the lawn right after the crash. Subsequent photos do show debris, but if the plane hit the Pentagon where are the engine marks or holes in the building ? Why is the hole so small and how did a hole get created through three of those thick Pentagon walls where the light fusalage supposedly hit yet no damage where the engines could have hit. ?

To me it doesn't look as if a plane hit the Pentagon, but the Pentagon attack was so covered up afterwards with the removal of evidence that nothing can be gleaned from this accident scene. Although many cover ups occured at the NY scenes there is still enough known evidence to prove MIHOP conclusively.

I'm inclined to go with the unbiased experts on this:

From http://www.wanttoknow.info/officialsquesti...ommissionreport

"General Albert Stubblebine, U.S. Army (ret) – Commanding General of Army Intelligence and Security Command (INSCOM), 1981 - 1984. Also commanded U.S. Army’s Intelligence Center. Former head of Imagery Interpretation for Scientific and Technical Intelligence. 32-year Army career.

Video: "One of my experiences in the Army was being in charge of the Army’s Imagery Interpretation for Scientific and Technical Intelligence during the Cold War. I measured pieces of Soviet equipment from photographs. It was my job. I look at the hole in the Pentagon and I look at the size of an airplane that was supposed to have hit the Pentagon. And I said, ‘The plane does not fit in that hole’. So what did hit the Pentagon? What hit it? Where is it? What's going on?" http://www.undersiegemovie.com ... "

Canadian Blue · December 2, 2006

General Stubblebine:

http://www4.dr-rath-foundation.org/THE_FOU...erngeneral.html

Given this background, and his resulting proximity to the US Government, eyebrows began to be raised in the health freedom community in early 2005 when, along with Rima Laibow, Stubblebine launched the website of the Natural Solutions Foundation and began to promote himself as an expert on Codex Alimentarius.
However, for a man who had previously held several senior posts in US Army Intelligence, and who as such would be acutely aware of the need to ensure accuracy in the gathering of information, it quickly became apparent to experienced health freedom observers that Stubblebine either hadn't done his homework properly, or that he and Laibow were intentionally spreading inaccurate and misleading material on Codex and other related dietary supplement issues via their website and press releases. Moreover, despite repeated concerns being expressed by more experienced health freedom observers, Stubblebine and Laibow continued to disseminate this material, and pointedly ignored requests to remove it from their website.

PolyNewbie · December 2, 2006

CanadianBlue: So you are saying that the 100 or so people listed in my above post link must be crackpots because you know that 911 was not an inside job even though you have *no evidence whatsoever* to support your conclusions.

You must think that Robert Bowman with two Phds in engineering and experience at the top of the establishment as a director of SDI in US government must be a crackpot because you know something he doesn't. Who are you trying to kid ? Are you just biding time to take another crack at holocaust denial ?

Do you think Bowman was a crackpot because you think the subject of your above post was a crackpot ?

What if I listed all the criminal activities the heads of the current establishment have been involved in as a matter of historical fact ? Henry Kissinger- multiple war crimes, Oliver North - Iran Contra Affair, Bush Jr lies about Iraq, Bush sr involvement in Kennedy assassination.

How many times can you be lied to before you realize that you are dealing with liars ?

Canadian Blue · December 2, 2006

You must think that Robert Bowman with two Phds in engineering and experience at the top of the establishment as a director of SDI in US government must be a crackpot because you know something he doesn't. Who are you trying to kid ? Are you just biding time to take another crack at holocaust denial ?

Just because a person is a crackpot doesn't mean their not smart.

In 1962, Kaczynski graduated from Harvard. After graduation, he attended the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, earning a master's degree and a Ph.D. in mathematics. Kaczynski began a research career at Michigan but made few friends. One of his professors at Michigan, George Piranian, said: "It is not enough to say he was smart." He earned his Ph.D. by solving, in less than a year, a math problem that Piranian had been unable to solve. Kaczynski's specialty was a branch of complex analysis known as geometric function theory. "I would guess that maybe 10 or 12 people in the country understood or appreciated it," said Maxwell O. Reade, a retired math professor who served on Kaczynski's dissertation committee. In 1967, Kaczynski received a $100 prize recognizing his dissertation, entitled "Boundary Functions," as the school's best in math that year. At Michigan he held a National Science Foundation fellowship, he taught undergraduates for three years, and published two articles related to his dissertation in mathematical journals. After he left Michigan, he published four more papers.
In the fall of 1967, Kaczynski was hired as an assistant professor of mathematics at the University of California, Berkeley. Kaczynski's aloofness and reserve made students rate him poorly. Despite pleas from the department staff, Kaczynski resigned without explanation in 1969. Calvin Moore, vice chairman of the department in 1968, said that given Kaczynski's "impressive" thesis and record of publications, "he could have advanced up the ranks and been a senior member of the faculty today."

PolyNewbie · December 3, 2006

Can't you sue evidence ? How is this relative to the arguement ?

What if I drew a comparison between Bush & Hilter and showed Bush is actually worse ?

Canadian Blue · December 3, 2006

I'm not planning to take any legal action against evidence.

Go ahead and make a comparison between Bush and Hitler I think I've allready got you beat.

Hitler killed six million jews, completely destroyed Europe, and engaged in a war which saw the death of 62 MILLION PEOPLE.

Wilber · December 3, 2006

Wilbur:It must have been a missile loaded full of 757 debris including major engine parts and complete landing gear assemblies. You didn't answer the question though, what happened to American 77 and all the people on it on the morning of Sept 11, 2001 if it didn't hit the Pentagon.

I didn't see any parts of anything on the photos of the lawn right after the crash. Subsequent photos do show debris, but if the plane hit the Pentagon where are the engine marks or holes in the building ? Why is the hole so small and how did a hole get created through three of those thick Pentagon walls where the light fusalage supposedly hit yet no damage where the engines could have hit. ?

To me it doesn't look as if a plane hit the Pentagon, but the Pentagon attack was so covered up afterwards with the removal of evidence that nothing can be gleaned from this accident scene. Although many cover ups occured at the NY scenes there is still enough known evidence to prove MIHOP conclusively.

I'm inclined to go with the unbiased experts on this:

From http://www.wanttoknow.info/officialsquesti...ommissionreport

"General Albert Stubblebine, U.S. Army (ret) – Commanding General of Army Intelligence and Security

Command (INSCOM), 1981 - 1984. Also commanded U.S. Army’s Intelligence Center. Former head of Imagery Interpretation for Scientific and Technical Intelligence. 32-year Army career.

Video: "One of my experiences in the Army was being in charge of the Army’s Imagery Interpretation for Scientific and Technical Intelligence during the Cold War. I measured pieces of Soviet equipment from photographs. It was my job. I look at the hole in the Pentagon and I look at the size of an airplane that was supposed to have hit the Pentagon. And I said, ‘The plane does not fit in that hole’. So what did hit the Pentagon? What hit it? Where is it? What's going on?" http://www.undersiegemovie.com ... "

The parts wouldn't be on the lawn, they would be embedded well into the building. The heavier parts, engine, landing gear etc would have been embedded the farthest and at the speed the aircraft impacted the building only the largest pieces would have been recognizable. If you look at the aircraft, the engines are mounted quite close to the fuselage. The landing gear is mounted between the engines and the fuselage. It would not have made a large hole.

What happened to American 77 and all the people on it on Sept 11, 2001 if it didn't hit the Pentagon?

PolyNewbie · December 3, 2006

Wilbur:The parts wouldn't be on the lawn, they would be embedded well into the building. The heavier parts, engine, landing gear etc would have been embedded the farthest and at the speed the aircraft impacted the building only the largest pieces would have been recognizable. If you look at the aircraft, the engines are mounted quite close to the fuselage. The landing gear is mounted between the engines and the fuselage. It would not have made a large hole.

Early photos right after the impact showed the lawn clean. Agents in suits were seen on the lawn picking through debris ( just another strange co-incidence ? ). Subsequent photos showed junk on the lawn. The hole in the Pentagon is not big enough to explain engines and landing gear, and for that matter, the diameter of a soft illuminum fusalage loaded with soft passengers, soft seats and soft luggage. This doesn't sseem like something that would go through a three foot concete wall in cartoon cutout style. What about the other two holes ?

What happened to American 77 and all the people on it on Sept 11, 2001 if it didn't hit the Pentagon?

If 911 was an inside job this could have been taken care of by loading CIA agents as passengers and landing somewhere else. Or if 911 was an inside job it follows that these people could be disposed of in any way that you could imagine.

Wilber · December 3, 2006

deleted

Wilber · December 3, 2006

Poly

You can believe whatever you want but as a recently retired airline pilot who spent the last part of his career flying Al Quaeda's weapon of choice, including during the summer of 2001 and who certainly can't say there are are none, I can honestly say that I have never met an airline pilot who believed in any of these theories.

I think this guy has got it about right.

AA 77[/url

Wilber · December 3, 2006

Lets try that link again.

AA 77

PolyNewbie · December 3, 2006

The Pentagon issue isn't really important in any moral or technical aspects of 911. If it is true that a jet airliner hit the Pentagon then the case for LIHOP is more valid. "Let It Happen On Purpose" from a moral perspective is equal to Made It Happen On Purpose or "MIHOP".

No one will ever know because the evidence is gone, the building was quickly fixed and the normal authorities that do these investigation on accidents were not allowed anywhere near the evidence. The evidence was being remove immediately after the accident. The government has been caught lying and dragging their feet on 911 and lying about wars. The people in the administration at a highly level (like Henry Kissinger & the guy that is replacing Rumsfeld, & Oliver North) are all known criminals. GHW was involved in the Kennedy case. I could go on and on..

My belief from seeing the evidence of the Pentagon attack is that it was a missile, and like many other sites that show the 'science' of the official version, your link can probably be easily discredited. But the Pentagon crash isn't important enough for me to bother. We can rip through 911 Myths if you want and I'll show how they are using misleading statements and making direct false statements to make their case. Furthermore, many of the links I have read discrediting the conspiracy theory have the authors of the work un named.

How often to you have to be lied to before you catch on ? People have forgotten a simple moral axiom: Once a liar, always a liar.

The NY attacks prove that it was an inside job.

PolyNewbie · December 3, 2006

In addition to this, the official NIST report does not say what people think it says and most people would be very surprised about what the FEMA report actually says. You will find that the story on the news about what NIST says and what FEMA says is an "extention in reality".

The FEMA report shows evidence of controlled demolition that is not addressed in NIST. The NIST report stops crtically at the point before the collapse. The collapse is not analyzed. In small multi million dollar court cases (and smaller) accidents are recreated through computer animation. This is a form of study, one builds a model, sets an initial condition and the model crunches through the collapse. The exact initial conditions are varied until the collapse happens in a way that matches the physical evidence. This is how they figure out what happened and its why all jet airliners get reconstructed after a crash. Why wasn't this done ? Or was it done and the initial conditions required to create the outcome could not be fudged?

People say CD theories are rediculous, but nuclear technology has been developed to do exactly what was done at wtc1 & wtc2 back in the 50's or 60's- demolish a building. The technology was never used.

No one will ever know for sure what happend at wtc1 & wtc2 because an unbiased investigation (like the Kennedy assasination) will never take place. The evidence is gone, perhaps some is being held in secret like the Kennedy assasination. The only certain thing about NY is that it had to be an inside job, how it was an inside job is a subject of speculation.

If NY was an inside job then Pentagon must have been too.

Canadian Blue · December 3, 2006

Is your explaination for any national tragedy that it was a conspiracy theory perpetrated by the government?

Wilber · December 3, 2006

Whatever.

PolyNewbie · December 5, 2006

Wilbur: whatever

Then there is wtc7, www.wtc7.net

CanadianBlue:Is your explaination for any national tragedy that it was a conspiracy theory perpetrated by the government?

Nope, just the Shah of Iran, Suddam Hussein, Kennedy assasination, Vietnam war, Iran Contra, 1979 Russian shoot down of airliner carrying Larry MacDonald, wars in Iraq,Haiti, Nicaragua, Grenada, etc + Oklahoma & 911 were government conspiracies.