'Come clean' on Arar, Harper tells Bush.

[gerryhatrick]

What, this isn't anti-Americansim?

Seriously though, this is purely a symbolic gesture designed to create exactly the impression you're flogging.

I'm sure GWB has no problem having Harper make such demands of him, knowing that there's no political price for himself and a potential political reward for Harper.

10 to 1 odds Bush will respond back in a suitably contrite fashion...blaming some US agencies and assuring Harper it won't happen again.

No this isn't anti-Americanism.

Harper has moved the relationship with the U.S. to the professional level it belongs to be conducted on.

This means that when the Canadian PM has an issue, he calls the US President directly instead of calling press conferences or communicating via press releases. No MPs stomping on Bush dolls. etc...

Don't think there is no potential cost to Bush in responding to Harper in an appetizing way to Canadians. There has always been an isolationist element to the U.S. electorate.

My guess is Bush will issue an apology *after* the mid-term elections.

I was kidding about the anti-Americanism. Should have made that clearer, sorry.

You didn't respond to my main point, that this is a symbolic gesture designed to have the effect of making Harper appear like he's not a lapdog to GW.

And I'm curious to know what potential cost you think there is to Bush if he responds in an appetizing way to Canadians? You really believe the U.S. electorate will resent it? Maybe he won't get elected again, huh?

[gerryhatrick]

This country is definitely becoming pro-immigrant, anti- Canadian and no way Will President Bush allow his country to be seen in that light.

This running to President Bush political facade WILL BACKFIRE, making Canada and PM Harper look the whining complainers they are.

What? Canada is becoming anti-Canadian?

Rightwing Canada is very much anti-Canadian, and having a rightwing PM has inflated those attitudes.

You are aware of what your beloved PM has said about Canada in the past no doubt. It's quite obvious he's unhappy with quite a lot of it and wishes to remake it in a more Americanized image.

"Canada appears content to become a second-tier socialistic country, boasting ever more loudly about its economy and social services to mask its second-rate status."

That's us....socialistic. All those welfare mothers and disabled and abused minorities should just crawl away and die so we don't have to waste tax dollars on them, huh Steve?

[Ricki Bobbi]

You didn't respond to my main point, that this is a symbolic gesture designed to have the effect of making Harper appear like he's not a lapdog to GW.

It is much more than a symbolic gesture. Harper and Bush have developed a relationship where a phone call gets things done. What more could Canada do about the Arar situation? Use military might?

And I'm curious to know what potential cost you think there is to Bush if he responds in an appetizing way to Canadians? You really believe the U.S. electorate will resent it? Maybe he won't get elected again, huh?

Actually Gerry. I pointed out the political costs to GW. But I'll make it very clear, just because you obviously didn't catch it.

The *mid-term* elections in the U.S. are the elections for the House of Representatives and 1/3 of the Senate which take place in non-Presidential election years. As a Republican President GW Bush is considered leader of the Republican Party. So if the Republicans lose the house and/or senate that would be an example of the electorate resenting his actions.

I take your lack of belligerence since your warning meaning that you have taken it to heart. The ongoing obtuseness is clearly a matter of lack of ability so I'll provide little explanations for you any time you require it.

[gerryhatrick]

And I'm curious to know what potential cost you think there is to Bush if he responds in an appetizing way to Canadians? You really believe the U.S. electorate will resent it? Maybe he won't get elected again, huh?

Actually Gerry. I pointed out the political costs to GW. But I'll make it very clear, just because you obviously didn't catch it.

The *mid-term* elections in the U.S. are the elections for the House of Representatives and 1/3 of the Senate which take place in non-Presidential election years. As a Republican President GW Bush is considered leader of the Republican Party. So if the Republicans lose the house and/or senate that would be an example of the electorate resenting it.

You didn't specify what the "potential cost" would be, at all. And now that you point to the mid-terms I'll answer in pretty much exactly the same way: you really believe the U.S. electorate will resent it?

The Republicans are quite obviously poised to lose at least the House, and quite possibly the Senate. Bush throwing Harper his bone cannot hurt his party. If anything, it would help.

I take your lack of belligerence since your warning meaning that you have taken it to heart.

What the h#ll are you talking about? What "warning"?

And for goodness sake Ricki, who do you always want to make your posts about the poster? Do my criticisms of Harper hurt you that deeply?

[Ricki Bobbi]

You didn't specify what the "potential cost" would be, at all. And now that you point to the mid-terms I'll answer in pretty much exactly the same way: you really believe the U.S. electorate will resent it?

The Republicans are quite obviously poised to lose at least the House, and quite possibly the Senate. Bush throwing Harper his bone cannot hurt his party. If anything, it would help.

What the h#ll are you talking about? What "warning"?

And for goodness sake Ricki, who do you always want to make your posts about the poster? Do my criticisms of Harper hurt you that deeply?

Up until the Representative Mark Foley scandal broke last week it wasn't *obvious* the Republicans were poised to lose the House.

Do explain how *throwing Harper his bone* would help Republican electoral chances.

Gerry I said midterms the first time around. Take a look at my posts. It's tough to debate with somebody who ignores your posts. Did you really not notice I said that the first time around?

I don't *always* make the posts about the poster. Only people who call the PM a wimp, his acitons *idiotic*, etc....

They don't hurt me Gerry. They make me laugh. While you are on the board, and respecting the rules of the board we will be cool and the gang. When you attack people and break the rules of the board with impugnity I will call you on it.

[gerryhatrick]

Do explain how *throwing Harper his bone* would help.

Bush has been widely criticised in the US for pushing away allies. If he throws this harmless bone to Harper it will cast him as being considerate and cooperative.

When you attack people and break the rules of the board with impugnity I will call you on it.

You still didn't explain what you meant by "warning". I have not been warned for anything, sorry to dissappoint.

I'm quite sure you've complained often about me to the board admin, and I'm sure they placated you with a "we'll look into it and let him know if it's out of line".

Posters familiar with you on this board know that you complain about attacks and rule breaking over absolutely nothing. That is your MO. Everyone who criticises the CPC is a HUGE rule breaker in your view, spewing hatred and all other vile forms of rule breaking hatred!

[Ricki Bobbi]

You still didn't explain what you meant by "warning". I have not been warned for anything, sorry to dissappoint.

I'm quite sure you've complained often about me to the board admin, and I'm sure they placated you with a "we'll look into it and let him know if it's out of line".

Posters familiar with you on this board know that you complain about attacks and rule breaking over absolutely nothing. That is your MO. Everyone who criticises the CPC is a HUGE rule breaker in your view, spewing hatred and all other vile forms of rule breaking hatred!

Yeah, Gerry. Name one other poster I have *complained* about for rule brekaing? Seriously, provide one other example.

You can't, because it is just you. You are the only one allowed to break the rules with impugnity.

Warning? Hmmm, all of a sudden you quit calling the PM a wimp, and insulting the behaviour of his supporters as idiotic. You have quit using disprespctful language for some reason. Maybe you have changed your meds. I don't know but the difference in your behaviour is appreciated.

Bush has been widely criticised in the US for pushing away allies. If he throws this harmless bone to Harper it will cast him as being considerate and cooperative.

At least you are being respectful in this one, if not still condescending and belittling.

Who would see Bush as being considerate and cooperative for this act?

The hard core right would see it as an exmple of weakness in the war on terror.

[gerryhatrick]

Yeah, Gerry. Name one other poster I have *complained* about for rule brekaing? Seriously, provide one other example.

On the forum you have complained about others. There's very few here who criticise Harper, and I've seen you pull the same sh#t against others. I won't waste my time searching though, but thanks for the invite. Now you can say "you can't because I haven't!" to your hearts content!

Warning? Hmmm, all of a sudden you quit calling the PM a wimp,

The PM is a wimp, for the reasons I provided in another topic. Uh oh, did I just "cross post" by mentioning another topic? Doh, more rule breaking!

I'll bump that topic for you. If it was judged improper it would have been locked, no?

[Ricki Bobbi]

On the forum you have complained about others. There's very few here who criticise Harper, and I've seen you pull the same sh#t against others. I won't waste my time searching though, but thanks for the invite. Now you can say "you can't because I haven't!" to your hearts content!

The PM is a wimp, for the reasons I provided in another topic. Uh oh, did I just "cross post" by mentioning another topic? Doh, more rule breaking!

I'll bump that topic for you. If it was judged improper it would have been locked, no?

Name one other poster I have complained about Gerry. You can't because I haven't.

Here is the forum rule you broke with the *wimp* line.

NO PERSONAL ATTACKS

Please respect others using this board by refraining from personal attacks. There is a huge difference between disagreeing with a thought or idea and attacking an individual.

[gerryhatrick]

On the forum you have complained about others. There's very few here who criticise Harper, and I've seen you pull the same sh#t against others. I won't waste my time searching though, but thanks for the invite. Now you can say "you can't because I haven't!" to your hearts content!

The PM is a wimp, for the reasons I provided in another topic. Uh oh, did I just "cross post" by mentioning another topic? Doh, more rule breaking!

I'll bump that topic for you. If it was judged improper it would have been locked, no?

Name one other poster I have complained about Gerry. You can't because I haven't.

I can't because I won't waste my time. We both know the truth.

Here is the forum rule you broke with the *wimp* line.

NO PERSONAL ATTACKS

Please respect others using this board by refraining from personal attacks. There is a huge difference between disagreeing with a thought or idea and attacking an individual.

As I've said before Ricki, I'm not interested in your definition of the rules. Take it to a higher power, spare the board your constant complaining.

[Ricki Bobbi]

I can't because I won't waste my time. We both know the truth.

As I've said before Ricki, I'm not interested in your definition of the rules. Take it to a higher power, spare the board your constant complaining.

Name one other poster I have complained about Gerry. You can't because I haven't.

My definition of the rules? Hmmm, look at the top left corner of the page. Just under "Invision Power Board" you will see Forum Rules and Guidelines.

You can follow the rules like everybody else. Ignore when I point them out to you. But I'm not going to do whatever you tell me. I understand you are a powerless individual. A PM you hate in Ottawa. But you can't expect to treat people the way you do and have them respect your imagined authority.

[gerryhatrick]

I can't because I won't waste my time. We both know the truth.

As I've said before Ricki, I'm not interested in your definition of the rules. Take it to a higher power, spare the board your constant complaining.

Name one other poster I have complained about Gerry. You can't because I haven't.

I won't waste my time Ricki. How many times do you want to go back and forth over it?

My definition of the rules? Hmmm, look at the top left corner of the page. Just under "Invision Power Board" you will see Forum Rules and Guidelines.

Yes Ricki, your definition of the rules. When you accuse me of breaking the rules everytime I sneeze you're are defining them - translating them, if you will.

For example, remember when I referenced another post in the forum from an unrelated topic? CROSS-POSTING! you screamed!

You are confused about forum rules. And when it comes to accusing me of being hateful, insulting, attacking you're usually being overly-sensitive or partisan.

You can follow the rules like everybody else. Ignore when I point them out to you. But I'm not going to do whatever you tell me. I understand you are a powerless individual. A PM you hate in Ottawa.

See here is an example Ricki. You accuse me of of not following the rules, and paint yourself as the poor victim who will march bravely on pointing out my transgressions when they happen.....a poor victim with no support from the forum admin. And what are you doing next? Accusing me of "hate".

Accusing me of hate is insulting Ricki? Why do you get away with it all the time? Booooohoo!

You do what you want. Nobody cares. Eventually, perhaps, the forum admin will turf you for baiting and polluting. Or not, so what.

[Ricki Bobbi]

I won't waste my time Ricki. How many times do you want to go back and forth over it?

See here is an example Ricki. You accuse me of of not following the rules, and paint yourself as the poor victim who will march bravely on pointing out my transgressions when they happen.....a poor victim with no support from the forum admin. And what are you doing next? Accusing me of "hate".

Accusing me of hate is insulting Ricki? Why do you get away with it all the time? Booooohoo!

You do what you want. Nobody cares. Eventually, perhaps, the forum admin will turf you for baiting and polluting. Or not, so what.

You won't waste your time because I haven't done what you falsely accused me of doing. Want to prove me wrong? Spend the time.

You are insulted because I accused you of hating Harper? You just bumped a month old thread calling him a wimp. You have called his actions dishonest over Afghanistan. You have said he is government is wasting money in supporting the rights of people with strong religious beliefs. That is just today.

Play the victim all you want Gerry. Your actions on this board need to be dealt with by somebody.

[gerryhatrick]

You are insulted because I accused you of hating Harper?

It matters not if I am insulted, it's insulting. Accusing another person of hatred is insulting.

You just bumped a month old thread calling him a wimp.

And I make the case for him being a wimp.

Look, if I called him a child molester, that would be an insult...UNLESS I had evidence that he IS a child molester. Perhaps that will help you understand the validity of me calling him a wimp.

You have called his actions dishonest over Afghanistan.

I have said he is dishonestly equating support for the troops with support for the mission. That is not an insult Ricki. This is a perfect example of what makes you cry about me "breaking the rules" when all I've done is present Harpers own words and call them what they are.

You have said he is government is wasting money in supporting the rights of people with strong religious beliefs. That is just today.

That is a lie. A pure lie. And it's more evidence of the emptiness of your accusations against me.

I shouldn't even have to defend myself against your lies, but I will.

Folks can go see my posts on the subject for themselves here:

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index....=6718&st=75

I clearly called the legislation useless, a waste of money. The legislation DOES NOT support the rights of people with strong relitious beliefs. People with strong religious beliefs are already protected by the Charter, , therefore the legislation is useless and does not support them at all.

Seeing you TWIST that into a claim that I think it's a waste of money to support the rights of people with strong religious beliefs is indicitive of your honesty, and a clear window for others into the truthfulness of your constant accusation against me.

[Ricki Bobbi]

And I make the case for him being a wimp.

I have said he is dishonestly equating support for the troops with support for the mission. That is not an insult Ricki. This is a perfect example of what makes you cry about me "breaking the rules" when all I've done is present Harpers own words and call them what they are.

I clearly called the legislation useless, a waste of money. The legislation DOES NOT support the rights of people with strong relitious beliefs. People with strong religious beliefs are already protected by the Charter, , therefore the legislation is useless and does not support them at all.

Seeing you TWIST that into a claim that I think it's a waste of money to support the rights of people with strong religious beliefs is indicitive of your honesty, and a clear window for others into the truthfulness of your constant accusation against me.

You don't make the case for Harper being a wimp, and it is an insult.

You never provided suppor for the Prime Minister's *dishonesty*.

You *said* the legislation was a wate of money. You never provided any support for what you said.

Any other baseless attacks on the PM?

[Biblio Bibuli]

Any other baseless attacks on the PM?

Read Preston Manning's book "THINK BIG" and your opinion of Harper may change awfully quick. Harper is NOT a good man!

Not that that neccessarily disqualifies him from being a good PM.

GO IGGY GO!!

[Ricki Bobbi]

Read Preston Manning's book "THINK BIG" and your opinion of Harper may change awfully quick. Harper is NOT a good man!

Not that that neccessarily disqualifies him from being a good PM.

GO IGGY GO!!

Manning definitely has an axe to grind against Harper.

One of the most well-known quotes from that book is. "Stephen had difficultly accepting that there might be a few other people (not many, perhaps, but a few) who were as smart as he was with respect to policy and strategy."

Hmmm, Harper was strategically smart enough to know the value of the leader speaking passable French and running a positive -issue-based campaign.

Had Manning and his smarter-than-Harper advisors recognized these realities heading into the 1997 election they probably could have held the Liberals to a minority and we probably would have seen the last of Chretien by 98 or 99.

[jbg]

Had Manning and his smarter-than-Harper advisors recognized these realities heading into the 1997 election they probably could have held the Liberals to a minority and we probably would have seen the last of Chretien by 98 or 99.

How was Manning's French?

[Ricki Bobbi]

How was Manning's French?

Terrible.