Who Killed the Electric Car?

[jdobbin]

It is just being shown now here. It looks interesting. Anyone else catch it yet?

Moreover, does anyone drive a hybrid?

[M.Dancer]

It is just being shown now here. It looks interesting. Anyone else catch it yet?

Moreover, does anyone drive a hybrid?

My brother in law has a Prias...he likes it and say he has saved quite a bit over the past few months with gas topping .90 a litre. They are still too expensive for most, making the return on fuel savings dependant on high gas costs, but his wife is an engineer at Toyota so they got the thing with a management discount.

[geoffrey]

Waste of your time, Hybrids aren't the solution.

Do you realise the damage those massive batteries will cause to the environment, or the energy required to safely dispose of them?

Again, another Green idea proven to really be a massive waste. It's a yuppie thing, you look trendy in your hybrid, but really, we all should realise they are idiots.

[Wilber]

I have a Jetta diesel. $1500 option over the standard gas model. Driving is mixed town and rural. Average mileage 50-53 MPG (imperial gallons). It gets better highway mileage than a Prius but not as good in the city. Still, it is very efficient and much less complicated than a hybrid.

Diesels are far more civilzed than they used to be, produce 20% less CO2 than gas engines and with the latest emission controls and new ultra low sulphur fuel they are also a lot cleaner.

[geoffrey]

I have a Jetta diesel. $1500 option over the standard gas model. Driving is mixed town and rural. Average mileage 50-53 MPG (imperial gallons). It gets better highway mileage than a Prius but not as good in the city. Still, it is very efficient and much less complicated than a hybrid.

Diesels are far more civilzed than they used to be, produce 20% less CO2 than gas engines and with the latest emission controls and new ultra low sulphur fuel they are also a lot cleaner.

I was looking at the TDI... I love the efficiency but test driving it, it lacked performance over the 2.0T considerably, I didn't try the base model. Sure it's nice to cut back your emissions by a little, but if it's a major sacrifice in the fun you have driving your car, I'll pass. The time I spend on the highway I couldn't imagine dealing with the sluggish response in passing... when they develop a quicker, more responsive diesel, I'll give 'er a try.

That's what it comes down to, me, and most people in society, aren't willing to sacrifice much in the name of greenhouse gases. I'd rather spend the money planting trees or buying blue-green algae for my backyard pond.

[Riverwind]

Sure it's nice to cut back your emissions by a little, but if it's a major sacrifice in the fun you have driving your car, I'll pass.

This is yet another example of how the free market fails to include the effects on the environment in the price of goods. How much more expensive would a car have to be before you would say the fun factor is not worth it? 25%? 100%?

[Wilber]

I have a Jetta diesel. $1500 option over the standard gas model. Driving is mixed town and rural. Average mileage 50-53 MPG (imperial gallons). It gets better highway mileage than a Prius but not as good in the city. Still, it is very efficient and much less complicated than a hybrid.

Diesels are far more civilzed than they used to be, produce 20% less CO2 than gas engines and with the latest emission controls and new ultra low sulfur fuel they are also a lot cleaner.

I was looking at the TDI... I love the efficiency but test driving it, it lacked performance over the 2.0T considerably, I didn't try the base model. Sure it's nice to cut back your emissions by a little, but if it's a major sacrifice in the fun you have driving your car, I'll pass. The time I spend on the highway I couldn't imagine dealing with the sluggish response in passing... when they develop a quicker, more responsive diesel, I'll give 'er a try.

That's what it comes down to, me, and most people in society, aren't willing to sacrifice much in the name of greenhouse gases. I'd rather spend the money planting trees or buying blue-green algae for my backyard pond.

I have not found that. Mine is a 2004 Sport TDI, the old body style with the latest 100HP engine. Recaro style seats, T steering wheel, suspension, wheels and tires. While it is way down on HP compared to the 1.8T it produces slightly more torque so it is very responsive in traffic and pulls strongly out of corners but won't win many drag races. I find it quite enjoyable to drive. Mine is also a 5 spd manual and that makes quite a difference in driveabilty and economy, IMO. I've drove a 2003 auto once and wasn't impressed.

The new car is bigger and heavier and they have increased the size and power of the gas engines so maybe it is time to do the same for the diesel. Mind you for less than $800 you can buy a plug in module that will increase power and torque by 40%. That's one nice thing about diesels, it is very easy to increase their power output by reprogramming fuel delivery. A bonus is that most diesel programmers actually increase mileage during normal driving because they change the timing.

[geoffrey]

I have not found that. Mine is a 2004 Sport TDI, the old body style with the latest 100HP engine. Recaro style seats, T steering wheel, suspension, wheels and tires. While it is way down on HP compared to the 1.8T it produces slightly more torque so it is very responsive in traffic and pulls strongly out of corners but won't win many drag races. I find it quite enjoyable to drive. Mine is also a 5 spd manual and that makes quite a difference in driveabilty and economy, IMO. I've drove a 2003 auto once and wasn't impressed.

I drove the manual as well, it's better for the environment . I did enjoy the gain in torque from the diesel, but it just doesn't have the high-end passing power on the highway. It's an expensive enough car to have far more performance, we're looking at lower end BMW's and the WRX basemodel in the same price range. I found the 2.0T on par with the BMW 320i performance wise. I am glad to see that your enjoying the VW though, it may move me towards a VW.

The new car is bigger and heavier and they have increased the size and power of the gas engines so maybe it is time to do the same for the diesel. Mind you for less than $800 you can buy a plug in module that will increase power and torque by 40%. That's one nice thing about diesels, it is very easy to increase their power output by reprogramming fuel delivery. A bonus is that most diesel programmers actually increase mileage during normal driving because they change the timing.

Yup, the reprogramming is a good deal, and your right, you notice more difference on most diesels. But that's still only 140ish hp, I think that's significantly lacking for highway power in a modern car... my first car, an ol' 93 cavalier V6, had more horses once tuned properly. I'd love to see the starting power on a TDI once reprogrammed though, I can imagine with that much torque its pretty solid.

The new body is decent, but I don't think it's nearly as nice as the 2004 or earlier editions, I'd probably try to track down a nice hardly used '04 if I went down that route. Or just go for the BMW 328i for a couple extra twenties a month .

I'd drive a diesel, especially if I got a truck, if it performed similarly. I'd never drive a hybrid though, for one the cost, for two the toxicity of the batteries to the environment during construction and disposal.