Judge Slams Indian Actions

[Live From China]

So, you doing an additional wrong makes things right ?

I also think of native-run companies logging in Clayquot Sound when they promised not to, claiming these were mystical, spiritual lands that they had revered for thousands of years. So much for Mother Earth! You are hypocrites as much as we are!

[Okwaho]

So, you doing an additional wrong makes things right ?

I also think of native-run companies logging in Clayquot Sound when they promised not to, claiming these were mystical, spiritual lands that they had revered for thousands of years. So much for Mother Earth! You are hypocrites as much as we are!

Please!....weak argument indeed!!!!

[g_bambino]

It is kind of cool that you have your own passport. Is there somewhere I can see a picture of one?

Which nations actually allow you to cross into their territory by showing a Six Nations passport? Of course, I don't expect you to list all the countries.

You can see a picture of it and read all about it on page 159 in the Time-Life Books, The American Indians series called Realm Of The Iroquois.

But, where are they now? I too would be interested to see a currently valid Six Nations passport, and know which international countries recognize it's validity. I mean, passports are essentially diplomatic papers bearing a message from the visitor's head of state asking that the head of state of the visited country allow the bearer entrance. In who's name, then, are Six Nations' passports issued?

Further, if First Nations are sovereign of Canada, why then do you not need to present them to Canada border security when you step off the reserve, and vice-versa?

[g_bambino]

Exactly! Hence Canada is not soveriegn unto itself but under the Crown. And all of our agreements with them are the Highest Law of the land!!!

It's blatantly obvious you don't even know what the Crown is.

[Live From China]

Please!....weak argument indeed!!!!

Why?

And when you snottily reply (re: the passport issue), "I have already told you where to find this information!" it really shows you are NOT interested in debating in good faith.

[Chuck U. Farlie]

How is a 'native' more in touch with 'mother earth' than any other race of human being? After all, we are all the same species and even a product of a native/non-native reproduction is fertile... hence they are not a hybrid (like an ass). I can wipe my ass with leaves too, is that in touch with 'mother earth'?

So if 'natives' are 'in touch with Mother Earth', does that mean that Asians are 'in touch with minimizing electronic components', and that whites are 'in touch with colonizing and conquering the world', etc, etc???

Of course I am joking... but it is to show how ridiculous and obviously RACIST your posts are becoming, yet you call everyone else here the racist! You state that 'natives' are significantly different from any other race on this planet - therefor you are the one being racist, as we never claimed that non-natives had gifts or attributes that the natives lacked.

[Tsi Nikayen' Enonhne']

She:kon!

The smartest among you reject the concept of "shape-shifting". How much more effective it is because you don't believe!

100 years ago doctors believed that death was inevitible when one stopped breathing. Then they discovered that the heart kept beating after death and they revised their definition of death to depend on no heartbeat. Then as recently as about 30 years ago, they realized that the brain continued to function after the breathing and heart stopped. Their new definitions involve the cessation of brain function. They are still in that archaic era defining death by physical properties. Yet life is so much more than someone's biased and judgemental observation of it.

One's limits follow their belief in limitation and so no matter how smart and how strong you are you will always be limited to your final reward of death. That's what gives us an advantage. A warrior does not die until he has a vision of his death.....and then only because he believes his death is inevitible.

Belief preceeds cause, and cause always preceeds effect. Producing an effect for someone when they cannot comprehend the cause scares the heebee geebees outta them. Shape shifting is not only possible and plausible when you know how but it is relatively easy.

O:nen

[Chuck U. Farlie]

She:kon!

The smartest among you reject the concept of "shape-shifting". How much more effective it is because you don't believe!

100 years ago doctors believed that death was inevitible when one stopped breathing. Then they discovered that the heart kept beating after death and they revised their definition of death to depend on no heartbeat. Then as recently as about 30 years ago, they realized that the brain continued to function after the breathing and heart stopped. Their new definitions involve the cessation of brain function. They are still in that archaic era defining death by physical properties. Yet life is so much more than someone's biased and judgemental observation of it.

One's limits follow their belief in limitation and so no matter how smart and how strong you are you will always be limited to your final reward of death. That's what gives us an advantage. A warrior does not die until he has a vision of his death.....and then only because he believes his death is inevitible.

Belief preceeds cause, and cause always preceeds effect. Producing an effect for someone when they cannot comprehend the cause scares the heebee geebees outta them. Shape shifting is not only possible and plausible when you know how but it is relatively easy.

O:nen

Go tell your stories to your children Tsi, they are a pile of crap to me unless you are willing to prove your shape-shifting abilities to me.

[Okwaho]

To Tsi and Okwaho:

Mystical powers, connections to Mother Earth, maybe even shape shifting???????

Your credibility is totally shot. Or in short, you have just written another load of hooey!

As for your military service, they prove absolutely nothing. They just showed you served in the military. Certainly, you can point to the "Vietnam experience" as an example of modern warfare v. guerrilla and regular forces. Yes, the Americans eventually withdrew, but the cost to North Vietnam was huge. And lest we forget, the region was a vast hiding ground, their bush skills were extremely current, they had a large population to draw upon, and they were well supplied. And if we want to get whacky about it, they had a huge mystical tradition to draw upon. It didn't prevent thousands of North Vietnamese from dying!

Ho Chi Minh studied Native American battle tactics at the Univeristy of Chicago and deployed them in the field! The "spider hole" came from Geronimo's tactic of burying themselves in the sand and he also employed Crazy Horse's "medine of the mole"! The American concept was to rely on conventional warfare combined with "small unit" unconvetional warfare operations. They also relied heavily on technology and air support.

Homework! Do your homework!

Ong hieu toi duoc khong?

Chao ong!

[Okwaho]

To Tsi and Okwaho:

Mystical powers, connections to Mother Earth, maybe even shape shifting???????

Your credibility is totally shot. Or in short, you have just written another load of hooey!

As for your military service, they prove absolutely nothing. They just showed you served in the military. Certainly, you can point to the "Vietnam experience" as an example of modern warfare v. guerrilla and regular forces. Yes, the Americans eventually withdrew, but the cost to North Vietnam was huge. And lest we forget, the region was a vast hiding ground, their bush skills were extremely current, they had a large population to draw upon, and they were well supplied. And if we want to get whacky about it, they had a huge mystical tradition to draw upon. It didn't prevent thousands of North Vietnamese from dying!

Ho Chi Minh studied Native American battle tactics at the Univeristy of Chicago and deployed them in the field! The "spider hole" came from Geronimo's tactic of burying themselves in the sand and he also employed Crazy Horse's "medine of the mole"! The American concept was to rely on conventional warfare combined with "small unit" unconvetional warfare operations. They also relied heavily on technology and air support.

Homework! Do your homework!

Ong hieu toi duoc khong?

Chao ong!

[Live From China]

I did do my homework!

First, of all you are not Apache. And just because Ho Chi Min studied native strategies does not mean they are strategies unique to natives. They just happened to be the sources at hand. I will actually bet he also studied strategies of non-natives as well

The Americans "left behind" around 58,000 dead. The war in left well over a million North Vietnamese casualties. The point I am trying to make is you cannot casualty rates such as these.

[Tsi Nikayen' Enonhne']

She:kon! Fungku Charlie,

No one can prove to you anything you refuse to believe. That makes shaft-shifting much more valuable to us. If you knew how it was done then you would believe it.

My children learned how to shape-shift at a very early age. Its that easy and unfortunately you are "too smart" to believe it.

I owe you nothing. Prove it to me you are really as smart as you ~think~ you are.......

O:nen

[Tsi Nikayen' Enonhne']

She:kon!

And just because Ho Chi Min studied native strategies does not mean they are strategies unique to natives.

If the Americans were as smart and they knew the strategies beforehand, they would not have been fooled by them. To my knowledge, none of our warriors that fought in Vietnam were fooled either. Only the "smart" Americans got sucker-punched by them.

Low technology trumps high technology all the time. The Americans were defeated in Vietnam by their own egos.

O:nen

[geoffrey]

Can someone tell me what the heck She:kon! means or O:nen?

[Live From China]

Low technology trumps high technology all the time.

Absolute twaddle! Polish lancers v. Panzers and Stukas as one example. Machine guns and breech loading rifles v. men armed with swords and spears. And you cannot prove that Native Americans that served in Vietnam (although probably statistically insignificant) were never trapped by Vietcong ambushes. And don't give me this nonsense that I can't disprove it; you made the statement, the onus is on you to prove it!

Also: CUF never said he didn't believe you, he just said he wanted you to prove your contention. Something you constantly ask us to do. So it seems fair we ask you the same.

Tsi, you use all the techniques that someone who doesn't like to have there beliefs challenged uses:

1. I don't owe you an explanation! (Usually used when an explanation doesn't exist).

2. You're not a believer, so I can't show you. (Used to mask one's inability to show someone a skill). Or the old "you're-not-ready-yet" argument. I mean think about it: I can run at 100 miles per hour but since you don't believe me, you were unable to see that I just did this.

3. Avoiding the question completely, i.e., the passport and sovereignty issue (FTA's question on the latter). Although, I think Okwaho, is "better" at this that you.

4. My sources are accurate to the nth degree, yours aren't. I have never heard you say,"Hmm, interesting point there, I am going to have to do more research on that issue." Once again, the sovereignty question comes to mind

I am reminded of Carl Sagan's A Demon Haunted World. The chapter that discusses the dragon in the garage is an excellent introduction to these concepts. And no one is fooled by them!

[Tsi Nikayen' Enonhne']

She:kon!

Suicide bombers have an average kill ratio of 10 to 1. The US with all its technology and high tech weaponry cannot route out a few mountain goats hiding out in Afghanistan. The twin world trade towers were taken down by average technology - planes crashing into them and there were more casualties in those two instances than the US has ever visited on the "enemy" in Iraq or Afghanistan in one conflict.

Low tech is effective, cheap and available to anyone with a little know-how. Most bombs can be made from household cleansers and garage tools. Rockets can be fashioned using basic chemistry knowledge. Personel mines can be made in coffee cans and stone tools and weapons are still effective adhoc.

The point to be made is that the Russians and the US haven't been successful in the middle-east dispite all the high tech weaponry at their disposal. This is modern warfare - a kind that can strike and disable even the finest forces in the world.

I'm happy to have my beliefs challenged. Except when your beliefs cannot fathom my beliefs then you really have nothing to challenge them with. In order to understand and challenge my position you must first be smart enough to ~see~ it. Admitted you can't. So there is nothing to gain by providing you with information you cannot process.

We have discussed all the issues you have cited in great detail. There is no sens going over and over it when you didn't get it the first time. Our position is quite clear on sovereignty. Ours is intact and yours belongs to the Queen. All the mythology that you subscribe to can't erase those facts. All the spins and twists you make don't turn it away from the truth.

You prove that we are not sovereign - demonstrating where we have prescribed our communiion with the British, or have capitulated, or have been conquered. Your laws - including the Proclamations do not apply to us. They apply to YOU and are statements made fro YOU to leave us alone.

On the issue of compensation, you cannot unilaterally state anything. And as a Canadian citizen you don't even have a say in your political decision, the laws prescribed for you or the Constitution which limit your rights. That is all employees could hope for in a corporation under Crown authority. Using circular reasoning, FTA has attempted to justify the independence of Canada by asserting the myth that you are already sovereign. That is craziness. Rather, anyone of you should attempt to prove you are soverieng by your declarations of independence. Instead you attempt to dismiss your boss the Queen by saying she has no authority. You better get out all the consitutional documents. It is a long stretch to prove the Crown, YOUR Majesty and Sovereign Ruler are anything but in full control of the Corporation.

O:nen

[Riverwind]

FTA has attempted to justify the independence of Canada by asserting the myth that you are already sovereign. That is craziness.

Let's see - claiming that Canada is a soveriegn state is "crazniess" but asserting that Mohawk warriors can "shapechange" is a statement of fact? What is your game Tsi? Do you actually believe the stuff you post or do you just say it because it amuses you?

[Tsi Nikayen' Enonhne']

She:kon!

Your reality is limited by your belief that your are limited. On the other hand my being is unlimited and therefore my reality confirms it.

If you could see the western world view from outside of the box you have created to protect yourself from its effects, there is no doubt that you would agree with me. However since you can't the only measure of reality you have are the insane concepts of your own limitation. Don't believe me? Go ahead....define "freedom" without using the concepts of limitation.

No games to be played. But then again you can't see sanity while viewing it from insanity...and no explanation by me will help you see it any clearer.

O:nen

[Live From China]

Tsi, you are the one spinning your wheels. I give you the techniques used by New Age babblers to avoid answering questions, and what do you do? Turn around and give the old you're-not-ready-to-see-it argument, so there is no point is showing you.

OK, let's try this, let's assume you are a sovereign nation, and you are justified in taking back what is yours, why not just use your mystical powers to do it? If you can shape shift, it basically means you have control of time and space. You could just create things the way you want them, and we would be none the wiser.

And, do you have a website that shows a picture of a Six Nations passport?

[Tsi Nikayen' Enonhne']

She:kon!

If you can shape shift, it basically means you have control of time and space.

No it doesn't! LOL . You can't understand it because it is beyond your limitations. "Time" and "space" are concepts of limitation. To control a limitation is to place a limitation on a limitation. Nada.

I've answer question after question. That you won't accet the answer is a limitation in your own understanding.

BTW I'm as old as they get......Hardly a "new ager"....

O:nen

[Okwaho]

Low technology trumps high technology all the time.

Absolute twaddle! Polish lancers v. Panzers and Stukas as one example. Machine guns and breech loading rifles v. men armed with swords and spears. And you cannot prove that Native Americans that served in Vietnam (although probably statistically insignificant) were never trapped by Vietcong ambushes. And don't give me this nonsense that I can't disprove it; you made the statement, the onus is on you to prove it!

Did anybody say no Native Americans were ever trapped in an ambush? I believe Tsi has already stated not all Natives can tack etc. Remember also that when "Butter Bars" gave orders they were not all exactly based on sound tactical judgement.

Native Americans have one of the highest records of service per capita of any ethnic group that served Vietnam. Over 90% were volunteers. We had triple the normal ethnic rates in elite capacities within Airborne, Special Forces, Long Range Reconnaissance, and Ranger units. There are six of us from Grand River alone.

So Nam experts, How long were you in country? When, where and with what unit did you serve?

3. Avoiding the question completely, i.e., the passport and sovereignty issue (FTA's question on the latter). Although, I think Okwaho, is "better" at this that you.

What? I have answered all of the passport questions get the Time-Life book and read it!

[g_bambino]

It is kind of cool that you have your own passport. Is there somewhere I can see a picture of one?

Which nations actually allow you to cross into their territory by showing a Six Nations passport? Of course, I don't expect you to list all the countries.

You can see a picture of it and read all about it on page 159 in the Time-Life Books, The American Indians series called Realm Of The Iroquois.

But, where are they now? I too would be interested to see a currently valid Six Nations passport, and know which international countries recognize its validity. I mean, passports are essentially diplomatic papers bearing a message from the visitor's head of state asking that the head of state of the visited country allow the bearer entrance. In who's name, then, are Six Nations' passports issued?

Further, if First Nations are sovereign of Canada, why then do you not need to present them to Canada border security when you step off the reserve, and vice-versa?

The clock is ticking, but still no answer...

[Live From China]

Did anybody say no Native Americans were ever trapped in an ambush?

Actually, Tsi did. Go back and read Post No. 138.

And Tsi, you could be millenia old and still be a New Ager. Just thought I would clear that up for you!

We know you guys are just having us on! You do not represent the voice of your people!

[Okwaho]

Did anybody say no Native Americans were ever trapped in an ambush?

Actually, Tsi did. Go back and read Post No. 138.

And Tsi, you could be millenia old and still be a New Ager. Just thought I would clear that up for you!

We know you guys are just having us on! You do not represent the voice of your people!

There you go with the comprehension crap again. He said: "To my knowledge, none of our warriors that fought in Vietnam were fooled either." Where does it say we never got caught in an ambush?

New Ager? you can say as you wish...the voice of ignorance again!

Having you on? We'll see!

Represent the voice of our people? When did we say we did?

You've already defeated yourself with your own ignorance!!!

[Live From China]

Where does it say we never got caught in an ambush?

OK, let's try this! We were originally talking about the North Vietnamese using tactics of concealment and strike. Tsi, talked about the Native tactic of hiding under sand, ground and the like being learned by Ho Chi Min. (Although this tactic is not uniquely Native; I believe it was also used by Arabic peoples). Get the connection here? You are correct in that the word "ambush" was not used. But the idea was implied.

OK, cleared that up.

Not sure why the New Age comment has you so riled up. Oh well, no matter.

And YES, you are having us on!