Aboriginals/First Nations in Canada

[Riverwind]

Oka. Ipperwash. Caledonia. All are successful reclamations.

Ipperwash successful? The band was able to get some unused federal land back and some compensation. However, there were some big losses too: http://sisis.nativeweb.org/ipperwash/may2098cli.html

The high court dismissed the claim on 33 hectares of land along 2 1/2 kilometres of West Ipperwash beach.

...

The Supreme Court dismissed the appeal immediately after hearing arguments Tuesday morning. Jeff Cowan, lawyer for the property owners' association, said in its ruling the court agreed with the Ontario Court of Appeal decision.

In that 20-page ruling in 1996, Justice John Laskin said "throughout this period, a minority of the band objected to the sale but even it acknowledged that a majority of the members wanted to sell," when the Chippewas of Kettle and Stony Point surrendered the land in 1927.

[Tsi Nikayen' Enonhne']

She:kon!

Dispite the impotence of the court, the Stoney Pointers have returned to living on the site. It is theirs.

Canadian Courts have no jurisdiction. They can rule and object all they want. Occupation works and it will continue to be the most effective method of territory restoration until your government decides to negotiate in good faith.

Caledonia and the Wind Farm at Shelburne are just the beginning.

O:nen

[Hydraboss]

Again with the "Canadian courts have no jurisdiction". And again I ask why, if your nation does not recognize Canadian laws, are there natives in jail? Why not just refuse to allow police to arrest them? By your own admission (re: Canadian laws do not apply) these people have committed no crime, so why do YOU allow them to be detained in Canadian prisons?

If you allow them to remain incarcerated, then you do so by admitting that they fall subject to Canadian law. If that be the case, then by extension you acknowledge that Canadian law has precedence over your own nations "laws" and therefore are citizens of Canada.

Which is it Tsi?

Whoa, circular logic's a bugger, isn't it?

[Tsi Nikayen' Enonhne']

She:kon!

It is no circular logic.

Canada does not have the authority to lock people up bu they do anyway. They do not have the authority to legislate us but they do anyway.

One day it will come back to bite them in the ass. Perhaps when we lock up Judge Marshall for being illegally on our territory, then you will "get it..."

O:nen

[g_bambino]

The treaties are made with the person the citizens have chosen to represent them - in Canada's case, that's the Queen. The Queen is the personal embodiment of the State (holding all of its authority), and so, through her, all treaties are made with the citizens of Canada.

I've no doubt that the treaties and royal proclamations lay out limits on where non-Native Canadians can expand their inhabited territory, but the lands retained specifically for First Nations are as much a part of the jurisdiction of the Crown as the rest of the country is. If that was not the case you would be a leaderless, governmentless, lawless people, recognized as a sovereign state by no nation on earth. But, of course, that is not the case. First Nations are subjects of the Crown, must bear passports issued by the Queen of Canada when they travel abroad, must abide by the laws of the Crown, and face the Queen's justices in her courts when they break said laws, even on the reserve. Yes, certain laws of Canada (the treaties, royal procalamations, Indian Act, etc.) spell out what special rights First Nations are entitled to, define their territory, and even allow them a certain level of self-government. But, those laws are still Canadian, enforcable by Canadian courts, and ultimately Native and non-Native Canadians exist under the same governing authority - the Crown of Canada.

That Crown has existed in continuity from the very first European settlers to begin their government here, and who made treaties with the leaders of the aborigional populations. So, those proclamations and treaties are still perfectly valid, despite the point that they are now between First Nations and the distinct Canadian Crown. However, as the Queen (or her vice-regal rep.) is bound by constitutional convention to almost always follow the advice of her ministers, any act made by the Crown will be on the recommendation of members of the Canadian Cabinet (the upper part of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada). This applies as much to Native affairs as anything else (and is why there is a Minister for Indian and Northern Affairs), meaning that First Nations within Canada are indeed under the authority of the Canadian government, further proving that though they are treated specially, they are not a sovereign state.

Citizens and subjects entering into treaties with their own government? What a joke!!!

Nations make treaties with Nations! We are still sovereign as per the original agreements in which the British/Crown/Canada and all others settled in North America. You can debate the issue all you like but you're not a historian or a legal expert so you can't possibly understand the magnitude of the dilemma your governemnt is faced with. You obviously have no comprehension as to the vast amounts of evidence we have in our favor.

The treaties ceeded Native sovereignty to the Crown on the deal that the Natives would get special treatment: reserves, weapons, money, etc. Otherwise, where are the specific examples of your sovereignty which contradict what I mentioned above re. the courts, passports, laws, etc.

I've yet to be presented with any credentials which demonstrate your level of expertise in these matters. Please, enlighten me on how it is you've come to be a legal expert, and refute my previous points instead of ignoring them. That would be at least some evidence that what you say is true.

[g_bambino]

She:kon!

Oops!

First Nations are subjects of the Crown, must bear passports issued by the Queen of Canada

We have our own passports issued by the Haudenosaunee Confederacy. Only sovereign nations have their passports recognized by 36 countries.

O:nen

Elsewhere you've been asked to prove the existance of these things, and completely ignored the requests.

I suspect, therefore, that if these passports do indeed exist, they are not recognized by any country on earth, including Canada.

I'm willing to have my suspicion dispelled, however, so please, tell me where these passports are, in who's name they're issued, and provide a list of which countries accept them as valid international documents.

[deirdrie]

you will not get answer tsi is like a spider spinning a web going round and round before you know it he will call you a racist when no one agree`s with him

[Live From China]

Canada doesn't have the right to arrest and imprison these people but it does anyway! (I must admit that if the said warriors of this group were as powerful as has been indicated they would be able to stop this in an instant).

We lost the land, but got it back!

Our passports are recognized in 36 countries, but no one can actually produce a list!

We don't recognize the laws of Canada, but have to go to a Canadian court to fight our case!

We don't subscribe to Western views of offering proof and evidence of our claims, but continue to do so to a legal system that has no jurisdiction over us! (Isn't this just a waste of time then?)

[Gayogoho]

I posted this down at the provincial forum. It is a federal issue so I will post it here.

QUOTE(deirdrie @ Aug 21 2006, 08:17 AM)

tsi please provide list

Here's a list

http://www.kahonwes.com/links1/links_misc.htm

http://canadiangenocide.nativeweb.org/

http://www.ckrz.com/

http://www.ratical.com/many_worlds/6Nations/DatingIC.html

http://sisis.nativeweb.org/actionalert/

http://sisis,nativeweb.org/clark/histmain.html

http://sixnations.buffnet.net/

http://www.collectionscanada.ca/aboriginal-heritage/

http://lois.justice.gc.ca/en/I-5/index.html

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/const/c1867_e.html

http://66.221.42.75/files/nations_and_corp...roclamation.PDF

some video here

http://www.reclamationinfo.com/

http://auto_sol.tao.ca/

http://www.streamreel.com/archives/aim/aim_gentle.htm

Gayogoho

Nya:Weh for your time.

[Gayogoho]

sorry tried to edit links that dont work.

[Gayogoho]

:angry: :angry:

[deirdrie]

please read

http://www.caledoniawakeupcall.com/mohawks/nativereport.html

[Gayogoho]

All links work in this list

some good info.

Here's a list

http://www.kahonwes.com/links1/links_misc.htm

http://canadiangenocide.nativeweb.org/

http://www.ckrz.com/

http://www.ratical.com/many_worlds/6Nations/DatingIC.html

http://sisis.nativeweb.org/actionalert/

http://sixnations.buffnet.net/

http://www.collectionscanada.ca/aboriginal-heritage/

http://lois.justice.gc.ca/en/I-5/index.html

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/const/c1867_e.html

some video here

http://reclamationinfo.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=10

http://auto_sol.tao.ca/

http://www.streamreel.com/archives/aim/aim_gentle.htm

[deirdrie]

still no countries more searching from tsi

[Gayogoho]

Some more video

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=38...93889&hl=en

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2...97938&hl=en

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=57...14179&hl=en

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6...04716&hl=en

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1...56403&hl=en

[deirdrie]

still no countries mr make it up as go along